drum sander question...

[John Grabowski]

I am looking for opinions. I am starting to save up for a drum sander...I am really interested in the VS grizzly 24" double drum sander that retails for about $2000. I recently found a drum sander used for about 850$. It is a performax 22-44. It is only one drum. The benefit of the 24 is I can load two grits of paper and then save a ton of time stepping back.

What would you do? I can afford the performax now...I guess that is important to mention, right?

John G

[Doug Shepard]

The double drum would be nice for sure but it only takes a minute or two to change grits on the Performax. It's definetly a learned skill and gets quicker the more you do it but even as a newbie it would only take 5 minutes max IMHO.

[Mitchell Andrus]

Get the tool you'll grow into, not out of.

I've got a 24" x 2 Powermatic and would now pay double for it if I had to replace it.
.

[Gene Howe]

Having owned a Performax, I wouldn't recommend it to my worst enemy.
Aligning it, side to side and KEEPING it aligned is a royal PITA. I'm a patient man with some degree of mechanical aptitude and I was unable to obtain consistent results with this thing!:mad:
Added to the above frustration, he carrier belt came unglued after 90 days of sporadic use and presented several more headaches. :mad:
I would have been better off by far if I'd have purchased an enclosed unit. I only tried sanding anything wider than 22" twice, anyway. Both times resulted in disaster. And, that was after meticulous attention to alignment.
Now I use 30" "Flee Sander" like unit that I built myself. More than happy with it.:)

Just my opinion. YMMV;)

[Alan Schaffter]

I have an older Griz 1066. It is ok, I got it used and the previous owner abused the conveyor- a replacement is over $300!!!

On first thought, having two drums seems like it would save a lot of time, coarse grit drum followed by finer grit drum. You save some time by not needing to change grits but you are putting premature wear on the fine grit. It is ok if you make only one pass on each side of the stock/door. That can be difficult with a DD sander since you can only remove a very, very small amount on each pass- typically a 1/4 turn of the crank at most. Remember it is a sander, not a planer.

But, think about it, coarse grit followed by fine grit, but on a second pass you take a step backward and rough the panel up again with the first coarse grit drum, before you smooth it again with the second drum. The only time the second drum/grit does any good is on the very last pass! It would seem to me to save grit etc. that the second drum should be selectable- so it would only be used on the last pass.

[Chris Padilla]

John,

What are your plans for the sander? Do you have something specific in mind or do you just want a general duty sander?

For example, I picked up a used Delta 18-36 open end drum sander. The height-adjustment mechanism for the bed (drum stays put) is a joke but I finally got it dialed in. My plans for this sander were pretty specific: sanding veneers. I do not plan to need to adjust the height on it very much. In fact, I won't because it stinks but for veneers, I don't need much height adjustment and for that, it works fine.

If space and money ever open up for me, I wouldn't hesitate to get a better sander but for now, this one is dialed in and does precisely what I need it to.

[Matt Benton]

I personally wouldn't buy any sander that didn't have support on both ends of the drum. I admit to never having used one, but it just seems like some cost-cutting designs cut a little too much...

[Gene Howe]

I personally wouldn't buy any sander that didn't have support on both ends of the drum. I admit to never having used one, but it just seems like some cost-cutting designs cut a little too much...

I wish I'd have had the benefit of your counsel before I bought that Performax. I finally did sell it. It was too big for a door stop and I don't own a boat.:rolleyes:

[Mike Heidrick]

John, I have owned both of these. Had a complete 22/44 ST (the all metal one like the pro but with three legs) and then bought the G1066Z. Too be honest, the G1066Z is twice the machine the 22/44 ST was. Weight, stablility, power, ridigidness, precision, mass, the conveyor belt, adjustments, speed control, even the power buttons. This was after the ST had been upgraded to 3hp! The guy that sold me the ST - had access to a widebelt sander. See below for my feelings on the WB!

Now, find a deal on the 1066Z! $2K is too much. Deals are out there if you are patient. I gave $900 (machine was like new) and I have seen them go for less this past year.

Want the ultimate - buy a Widebelt sander. Huge difference in performance jump from a DD to a WB. The guy I bought my 1066Z from bought an $8K Timesaver 37" Speedsaver. That is one awesome machine.

[Dave Bureau]

I have Griz. its ok and better than the open end sander.
Also had a general 24" sander. the General is a better sander than the griz. steel city has the same sander. i would look into that one.
dave

[Charles Saunders]

I’ve had a Performax 22-44+ for several years. The previous posts regarding alignment and adjustments have been my experience as well, and it’s no fun to change abrasives. I believe that some of the bad sanding experience results from making cuts that are too aggressive for the machine, and that relates back to the single-ended drum support. There is no way that design could be as forgiving as a drum system that’s supported on both ends. I use it only for light cuts to clean up thin resawed material (usually less than 0.10”). That doesn’t produce much deflection and I get good flatness and acceptably uniform thickness along and across the material (+/- 0.005 or thereabouts). So it works OK for me but your results could be very different. If I were shopping for a replacement drum unit I might look at a Grizzly or perhaps Woodmaster (since they’re local, USA-made, and have a 5-year warranty).

[Joe Von Kaenel]

John,

I have a friend and my brother-in-law who both have the Grizzly double drum sander the one that is about $1500. Their complaint is that the conveyor motor is under powered, frequently stopping so the motor can cool off and reset and the paper seems dificult to change to me.

I have a Jet 16/32 and love the sander. If you can afford a larger one consider going bigger.

Joe

[Rob Cunningham]

I have a Woodmaster and am very happy with it. It's a single drum, but changing paper is very quick and simple. They are a few more $$ than the ones you are looking at but I feel it was money well spent. A very solid machine with a good dust extraction design.

[Thomas Bank]

Grizzly 1066 owner here - not the VS version, though. Retail is about $1500 and I found mine used for nearly a third of that. Fellow woodworker in the local club was pretty scathing toward me when I said I was looking for one - saying they had a Performax that they never used and that drum sanders were pretty useless. Having now tried mine out they are looking for one too...

[Eddie Simmons]

I have the grizzly sander you are talking about. It has service me well, I only have had it for about 10 months. It does a nice job on the hobby work that I do.
Good Luck
Eddie

[John Grabowski]

First of all, thanks for the info...I think I am going to hold out for a closed model. I did look at a General at one of my local places. I really liked it. I will have to consider it if I cant find one used.

Double drum makes all the sense in the world to me...I am a hobbyist. I will continue to do this the rest of my life...31 now and baby on the way. Furniture is definitely coming. I will have to get something in the summer to fill my needs.

Any more comments and experiences are greatly appreciated. This information has made a world of difference to me.

Thanks,

John G

[David Freed]

Here is an option if you would rather invest some time instead of money. I would imagine you could make it whatever width you wanted.

http://www.woodworkstuff.net/EDTSander.html

[Joe Chritz]

Nearly everytime I use my 1066 I say "how did I survive without this before?". It is the basic and in reality I don't know that the added cost is worth it for the VS. The micro adjust rear drum is the only real advantage I see but that is a pretty big bonus.

Just remember that it is a drum sander and not a 20HP timesaver wide belt and you will be OK. They can be picky about holding paper on and getting adjusted but in all I consider it a good investment.

Joe

[Andy McCormick]

Buy a woodmaster drum sander. I have a 38 single drum sander and with a reversing switch. It allows me to reverse the feed without taking the piece out of the machine. In my opinion a double drum sander is helpful if you have the same grit paper in both drums. That will help you sand a little faster. The problem that I see of the Grizzly sanders are the platens are made from wood at least when I was looking to make my purchase several years ago. I think that it would ware uneven.

[Sonny Edmonds]

Drum sander? POS!
Spend your money elsewhere. :)
Learn to do precision joinery and you won't need to grind your mistakes away. ;)

[Robert LaPlaca]

John,

Drum sander owners seem to fall into one of two camps, I hate brand X drum sander, or I love brand X drum sander. Not too many folks who ride the 'fence' or are neutral about the machines.

From the research I did the only machine that did not seem to get bad reviews were the Woodmasters. I bought a Woodmaster 2675, its a really nice machine. I do have to admit that if I had it to do all over I think I would have bought the larger 3875.

As others have stated you need really good dust collection, need to take very very small cuts measured in 64's of an inch (even with 5 HP) to be successful, otherwise you will wind up with burnt paper and ruined work..

Good luck

[mreza Salav]

Drum sander? POS!
Spend your money elsewhere. :)
Learn to do precision joinery and you won't need to grind your mistakes away. ;)

I suppose you are joking. If not, can you please teach me how to get really thin strips for bent lamination or veneers or how to flatten a ring of glue-up for segmented bowls? Planer is not going to work and hand planing, well I don't have that much wrist power and the end-result isn't as nearly accurate as a drum sander.

[Alan Schaffter]

Buy a woodmaster drum sander. I have a 38 single drum sander and with a reversing switch. It allows me to reverse the feed without taking the piece out of the machine. In my opinion a double drum sander is helpful if you have the same grit paper in both drums. That will help you sand a little faster. The problem that I see of the Grizzly sanders are the platens are made from wood at least when I was looking to make my purchase several years ago. I think that it would ware uneven.

Actually the Griz platten is melamine over particle board! However, the conveyor belt will wear out before the platten ever will. The platen on the heavily used and terribly abused Griz I bought a few years back is still in good shape! I am more concerned about it warping.

[Thomas Bank]

If not, can you please teach me how to get really thin strips...

Yep, I too use mine for material preparation as opposed to using it as a timesaver finish sander.

[Rick Fisher]

I would look for a used machine. I just picked up a 36" industrial unit for $2000 Canadian. ($1650 USD).

http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/P1010585.jpg

I already have the General 24" Double Drum. Its a very nice machine and I would recommend it to you.

If you buy a heavy and powerful machine and are patient with yourself in learning how to use it, you will love it.

If your shopping used, the biggest concern is the condition of the conveyor. The conveyor on this used one is 100% perfect. The same sander could be purchased for $500 less with a worn out conveyor.

[Stephen Edwards]

Like a couple of others have said...I use mine to prep boards, especially ones that are likely to have voids if I run them through a planer because of irregular grain. Though by no means am I a veneer expert I have found it to be a useful tool in veneering for my particular application. It was very helpful to be able to glue up a 3/16 to 1/4 veneer to a piece of mdf and then run it through the sander to clean it up and thin it down a bit.

I bought a used performax 16-32 and it has worked perfectly for my limited needs. The one time that I did a test run on a glue up wider than 16 inches it performed horribly. I know, many folks will tell me to take the time to adjust the machine to fix that problem. For my needs, not necessary. It does what I need and expected it to do for me.

I've had no trouble with burning, bogging down or changing the paper once I discovered for myself (little hard headed here) that it AIN'T a planer. Slow and incremental passes are the key. If you have a lot of board preparation to do, I suggest that you get a stool and good book or a magazine so that you can sit and read as the machine does its thing.

[Chip Lindley]

John, please remember that our member Sonny suffers from *PTDSD*. Post Traumatic Drum Sander Disorder! One bad experience and he will need therapy for LIFE! Other drum sanders besides the ONE he had the misfortune of owning, DO have their WORTH!

I own a used Grizz 24" and I am glad I didn't pay List for it. But, for $900, I'm getting my money's worth! It has its drawbacks, but is worth that price to me! If I had more bucks to spend I would buy a more substantial machine.

Double drums with two grits are NOT where IT's AT. You are better off to use same grit on both drums and increase your sanding action per pass. Otherwise, a single drum sander will do you well also.

If you go for a Grizzly, do not pay List Price for a new one. Look for a used bargain! Then you will get your money's worth til you can afford what you really want. Woodmaster is Great. There are others that receive glowing reports from owners! But they all cost MORE!

ALL are VERY USEFUL in flat-sanding panels, and sizing rail/stile material. DS's are slow going, but help you achieve more consistent flat panel results than can be had any other way!!

[Larry Edgerton]

I had a 22-44 and it would not handle the heavy stair stringers that I wanted to use it for. Bad tools do not last long in my shop, so it was history after digging a couple of divets in housed stair stringers.

I tried the shop next doors Grizzly, and decided it was not worth it and I would wait till I could afford a wide belt.

Then a friend of mine got crippled up and I bought all of his tools, one being a Woodmaster drum sander. Its not a bad tool actually, and if you realize its limits, like any drum sander, it does a nice job. The conveyer system never lets slip and digs divets, at least so far.

If you are looking to sand pine or any resinous wood, forget it. Drum sanders are not the ticket.

[CPeter James]

I don't claim to be an expert, but I have owned two double drum sanders and find them to be very useful for some projects. My first was a Performax 25X2 and my present one is a General 15-250. My first comment is that there is a steep learning curve which will involve several wraps of sanding strips destroyed before you get the hang of how to get the wrap the strips just right and how little you really can remove in one pass.

Second, make sure the machine is set up correctly. This is most important. They will work great...when the drums are correctly adjusted one to another and to the table. They will burn and rip the paper if the drums are not right. My new General was used jut once and put aside as not worth the effort. A few hours getting things set correctly and now it is within .002" side to side and the front and back drums both do their job.

For getting dead flat panels, a drum sander is the cat's meow, but it is not a finish sander. A little hand sanding or a ROS after the drum sander is required.

CPeter

[Larry Edgerton]

Drum sander? POS!
Spend your money elsewhere. :)
Learn to do precision joinery and you won't need to grind your mistakes away. ;)

Ha! You make me laugh! I can respect a man that has a definite opinion. :)

You're opinion does sound however like the guy that hates all women, right after a divorce........

Did you divorce a sander? :(

[Rick Fisher]

I don't claim to be an expert, but I have owned two double drum sanders and find them to be very useful for some projects. My first was a Performax 25X2 and my present one is a General 15-250. My first comment is that there is a steep learning curve which will involve several wraps of sanding strips destroyed before you get the hang of how to get the wrap the strips just right and how little you really can remove in one pass.

Second, make sure the machine is set up correctly. This is most important. They will work great...when the drums are correctly adjusted one to another and to the table. They will burn and rip the paper if the drums are not right. My new General was used jut once and put aside as not worth the effort. A few hours getting things set correctly and now it is within .002" side to side and the front and back drums both do their job.

For getting dead flat panels, a drum sander is the cat's meow, but it is not a finish sander. A little hand sanding or a ROS after the drum sander is required.

CPeter

That post really sum's it up. The first couple times you use it, you will think.. what did I buy? If you have the patience to set it up and learn how to use it, it will become one of your favorite tools in the shop.