Buying a workbench

[Charles Mann]

I have decided to buy a workbench rather than attempt to build one. I was hoping to get some feedback on a couple of models.
I have decided that I could live with either round or rectangular dogs. I have also decided not to have a tool tray. Here are the two models I have found:

1. Sjobergs Elite 2500 offered by Woodcraft.

2. Diefenbach Modern American GB 23-43V/3S/4R offered by www.workbenches.com (http://www.workbenches.com)

I am hoping for some comments or guidance about these benches or perhaps a similar bench.

[Doug Mason]

I have the Diefenbach Modern American -- and would not recommend it. I've had it for three yrs. Whoever put it togeather did a "really" bad job on the joinery--and I ain't talking about wood movement either.

[Sue Wise]

I think the problem with buying a bench is that most of them are too light. I made a bench using 2x4's, 4x4's, 3 layers of particle board with a hardboard top that is ugly but very functional. (If I built it today, I would still build the same base but use MDF for the top.) Fine Woodworking has a beginner video series on a building a bench much like mine, even though I made mine about 10 years ago. You may want to check it out.

[Charles Mann]

What would you say is too light? What would be a good weight?

[Greg Cole]

What would you say is too light? What would be a good weight?
Absolutely the heavier the better. If you do hand tool work you already know why. Unless you get into the $2500 range benches they are all pretty light.
I'd wager my bench tips the scales at @ 400 lbs, and it's going to gain some wieght when I add the storage cabinet underneath.
Most readily available premade benches aren't worth what you pay for them IMO.

[Carlos Alden]

Charles:

I have a Sjoberg bench from Woodcraft. I can't recall which model but it's NOT the bottom of the line deal. It's fine for smaller stuff - I bought it specifically for bas relief woodcarving. It could be a bit heavier and bit taller, but it's really okay for me.

For hand planing or sawing or anything else I would need a much heavier bench. I've seen some of the big kahuna benches at woodcraft and I think they would be okay, especially if you put some cinder blocks on the base.

Having said that, I have also seen homemade shop benches that are truly massive but ugly - glued-up 2x4s, MDF tops all chewed up, various vices bolted on with huge, hideous lagbolts sticking out, looking like Frankenstein's neck, etc. This kind of bench is what I would want to have in my shop if I was doing lots of hand planing. You need to feel like the bench is part of the bedrock under your shop.

Carlos

[Mike Cutler]

What would you say is too light? What would be a good weight?

Anything less than your own body weight is definitely too light, you'll push that thing all over the place. I would venture to say that mine weighs a minimum of 400lbs. It's built along the lines of Sue's bench. Doubled up 2x4's for legs, Doubled up 2x6's for rails and stretchers. Top is 2 layers of 1/2"ply, and 2 layers of 3/4" MDF. Shelf is 2 layers of ply, sides and back are a single layer of 1/2" ply for shear force. It measure 8' x30 inches on the top. Has a cabinet built into it. I use it for more than just woodworking though.
I think I built it for < $200.00. It's big, ugly, and crude, but you can't move it, or hurt it.

Sjosberg has a very nice bench, but it's pretty expensive, $2500+, and Lie-Nielsen has a nice bench too once again though fairly expensive. They are both very nice, and if I was to have a dedicated woodworking only bench that would be the design.
As an out of the box solution, have you considered commissioning having the bench made for you instead of buying retail? You may try a post in the classifieds here on the board, and see if someone will build it for you. I've seen some fabulous benches made by folks here on the board.

[John Schreiber]

There was a good review in FWW a little over a year ago. It pointed out some of the common problems with purchased benches. I think that's worth reading. With the possible exception of the Lie-Nielsen, I haven't seen a commercial bench that I'd like to work on. There just doesn't seem to be enough mass and stability. I just built a bench and the store bought ones look positively spindly.

But I work with hand tools a lot. Planes and drawknives and hand saws. For power tool woodworking, something less substantial might be fine.

Even if you plan to buy, I recommend reading up on workbenches. Chris Schwarz - Worbenches (http://www.amazon.com/Workbenches-Design-Construction-Popular-Woodworking/dp/1558708405/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1232123866&sr=1-1) is GREAT. I'd also recommend Scott Landis's (http://www.amazon.com/Workbench-Book-Craftsmans-Workbenches-Woodworking/dp/1561582700) book.

[David Keller NC]

Charles - As John mentioned, the way you work's really important when selecting a purchased bench. If you intend to work mostly with hand tools, even the expensive benches have issues. Lie-Nielsen's standard design, for example, has ready facilities for face-planing stock, and holding boards for hand-tool joinery. But it falls face flat when it comes to holding boards so that you can joint edges. This is principally because of the use of an apron and back-set legs. It's apparent that L-N recognizes that, as they're coming out with a Ruobo copy shortly that's more geared to Neanderthal work methods.

The Sjobergs benches, at least there $1000+ benches, are a little more suitable, but still suffer a bit when it comes to holding work so the edges can be worked on.

If you're a power tool guy and own a jointer, this might not be any issue at all - the Sjoberg's top line benches are certainly massive, and have good vises.

But there's good reason why most hand-tool workers choose to build their own benches - and it isn't frugality. It's just that most commercially available benches fall flat in one or more crucial areas for hand-tool work. This analysis, by the way, is one reason Mr. Schwarz Workbenches book is the bible.

[Jim Kirkpatrick]

I'm looking at the FWW article John's talking about. (Toolguide 2008). It gives the Lie Nielsen top honors. They had some quality control issues with the Diefenbach and the Sjoberg they rated higher. What they liked about the Sjoberg was that the legs were plumbed flush with the top and are fitted with dog holes to allow wide boards to be supported when edge planing. None of these benches are lightweight as someone mentioned. They all weigh over 270 lbs.
If it were me, I would spring for the Lie-Nielsen. They are custon fitted to your height specifications. And out of all the benches, it has the look and feel of a hand crafted work bench.
http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?cat=535

Good luck with your purchase and let us know how you make out.

[Wilbur Pan]

What would you say is too light? What would be a good weight?

All other things considered, the heavier the better. But there are ways of adding weight to your bench. Just ask the turners, and look on the spinny forum for ways of adding weight to a lathe that could be easily adapted to a workbench.

Also, there are other ways of immobilizing a bench (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=85596&) besides weight.

[Lloyd James]

I was wondering if you are worried about the final bench top being too heavy to move when want to move to another residence. Most of us have had to move a few times in their life.
I was thinking that one could dowel two layers together at a time so you could possibly split them apart at a later date. Dowel increases any plates resistance to bending. You could glue only the lower sheet by droping some glue to the lower plate. I think you would only have to have two rows of 3 dowels and you could add several flat head screws to add to the bond. The boards could be dowel together in pair too. Would wedges work for the leg and brace tendons? Dowels might work for angle bracing to; and just saw the braces off when you want to dismantle the bench.
Just a crazy thought.

[Joel Goodman]

I suggest a compromise -- a few years ago I purchased a Sloberg top with 2 vises dog holes etc and made a base. The top with vises was about $300 which was very reasonable. The vises are not the total top of the line but are serviceable. You can put together a base quite simply and it can add the weight you need. I would suggest having a strong shelf low that can hold some weight -- either store some heavy stuff there or put concrete blocks or sandbags on it. When you need to move it take the stuff off the shelf.

[JohnMorgan of Lititz]

Charles,

I bought the Elite 2000 about 3 weeks ago - same as the 2500, just a bit shorter. I am very pleased with the bench in all aspects: build quality, quality of the vices, the weight of the overall package.

I'm a hybrid wood worker, so i do plenty of handplaning in terms of "rought to ready" as well as planing for finishing. Needless to say, the bench is definately used in a traditional manner for clamping boards, planing and cutting joinery. I have no issues with the bench sliding around the floor - it is completely freestanding and not bolted to the floor or wall. Also, I did not purchase the base cabinet and have not built one yet; still a heavy enough bench.

I purchased mine from Woodcraft; I placed the order on Monday and Tuesday I received a call from the trucking company - setup a Wednesday delivery for 3pm - 5pm. Right on schedule, the driver used his pallet jack to help me pull it up the driveway into my shop. It all worked so smoothly I was afraid something was going to be wrong with the bench. Fortunately - nothing wrong!

I say buy with confidence!

I have been on the LieNielsen waiting list for over 1 1/4 years now and have not received a final call for schedule. I decided to give up and just order the SJobergs. I am now wishing i would have bought the bench a lot sooner. I was completely sold on the traditional German style bench, but the modern style and vice functionality on the Sjoberg is a bit better I believe.

So, again, buy the Sjobergs with confidence - save the $600 from the LN and put it towards some LN handplanes. :)

[glenn bradley]

What would you say is too light? What would be a good weight?

+1 in the 400lb range.

[Eric Garner]

I opted to build a cheap workbench using a solid core door and put cabinets built from 3/4 birch plywood as the base. I have a notch out for my stool so I can use it like a desk when needed. The door over is basically dead flat and overhangs for plenty of clamping options. I placed a clamp on one end and drilled holes for bench dogs. This thing is solid and heavy. I have a sketch up plan if interested just PM me.

[Charles Mann]

I have looked at the FWW review and have all of the above mentioned workbench books. I just went to Woodcraft today and looked at the large Sjobergs elite 2500 some more. I agree that the vises are not top of the line but are useable. I was planning to build a cabinet to fit in the base anyway so I think the 270 lbs + the weight of the cabinet and stored items should come close to 400 lbs.

I will use the bench mostly for handcut joinery and some work with the smoothing plane. I use a jointer and planer for flattening and thicknessing stock. I don't own anything larger than a jack plane.

Thanks for to everyone for their input.

[JohnMorgan of Lititz]

I just went to Woodcraft today and looked at the large Sjobergs elite 2500 some more. I agree that the vises are not top of the line but are useable.


Just curious what you don't like about the vices? You are looking at the elite series, not the Nordic or Duo models, right?

Just find it interesting that i had the complete opposite reaction to the vice hardware. They aren't "quick release" style, but other than that I found them very nice.

The only other workbench i was able to compare to was the LN, which i was able to use and poke around at and the Sjoberg Nordic models...so i certainly dont have a wide variety of vices to compare them to...

[Mark Carlson]

I bought a Sjoberg bench from woodcraft about 5 years ago. They don't sell this model anymore but its similar to the 2000 version. 3 1/4 inch thick top made of beech. Very heavy with the cabinets which I eventually added. The build quality is excellent. I'm very happy with it and highly recommend it.

~mark

[Al Navas]

Charles,

Several years ago I bought the older model of the largest Sjobergs at the time (all of this stuff is documented on my blog - please PM me if you have any questions):

http://sandal-woodsblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/cutt-off-rack-and-workbench-2.jpg

Why? Because I would rather make stuff, rather than make stuff to make stuff. Granted, one will learn a LOT by building one. And building one means we can customize it however we want.

Now, with that as background, I will probably build a Roubo, similar to what Jameel Abraham has built:

http://blog.woodworking-magazine.com/blog/content/binary/JameelRoubo.jpg

Why build a Roubo? More and more, I use hand tools, to the point that my shop is a power tool and a hand tool shop; hand tools are essential to incorporating a lot of detail into a work piece. The main problem: Space in the shop - meaning I might have to either build on, or get rid of some "stuff". I think I know what will eventually happen.

I am currently holding off on building the Roubo, as I have come up with some good workholding solutions using the Sjobergs workbench and the new Leigh surface clamps:

http://sandal-woodsblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/leigh-clamps-2.png

I have also done some crazy stuff with the Sjobergs workbench, out of necessity - like raising the work surface to accomodate the Leigh FMT for very long rails:

http://sandal-woodsblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/fmt-on-legs.png

I finally attached as follows:

http://sandal-woodsblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/fmt-leg-cleats-right.png

In summary:


Buy, if you are like me, and would rather make stuff.
The large Sjobergs benches are great for general work in the power tool shop.
But the Roubo, with modifications like Jameel has made, is fantastic for hand tool work.

But, above all, ENJOY!


.



I have decided to buy a workbench rather than attempt to build one. I was hoping to get some feedback on a couple of models.
I have decided that I could live with either round or rectangular dogs. I have also decided not to have a tool tray. Here are the two models I have found:

1. Sjobergs Elite 2500 offered by Woodcraft.

2. Diefenbach Modern American GB 23-43V/3S/4R offered by www.workbenches.com (http://www.workbenches.com)

I am hoping for some comments or guidance about these benches or perhaps a similar bench.

[Mark Carlson]

I have the little brother of Al's bench. 3 sets of cabinets versus 4.

~mark

[Michael Gibbons]

Someone here on the 'Creek bought a Lie-Nielsen and had the bench made with the scandanavian style shoulder vise (like Frank Klauzes) bench and it looks well made. Frank uses a bench slave to hold long boards for jointing. You can see the bench slave in the "Workbench Book"

[Chris Kennedy]

I have one of the baby Sjobergs -- el cheapo and light. The vises are fine, though, and I have had very good use out of it. And for hand tool work, it was too light. On the other hand, once I put the sand bags on the shelf and then over the trestles, the thing doesn't budge.

You can solve weight problems.

Cheers,

Chris

[John Sanford]

I'm not that familiar with the Sjoberg in question, so what I'm saying may not apply to them.

SKIP any bench that has an apron. Aprons are a clamping nightmare, and regardless of whether you're working with power tools or hand tools, you're gonna be clamping to the bench. Even if the bench weighs 4,000 lbs, if it has an apron, skip it.