Why not Invicta or Laguna?

[David L. Anthony]

I am in the market for a new jointer I am undecided between an 8" or a 12". I am leaning toward a 12". I have looked at all the usual suspects, but have found very little info on the Invicta DI-20,32 or Laguna platinum 8" and 12' jointers. The Laguna looks like a nice machine that has a nice fence and includes a carbide insert cutter head. Their even offering free shipping this month. I am thinking of pulling the trigger on the Laguna Platinum 12", but would like a little feed back first. Anyone have any experience with these machines? Thanks.


Dave

[Jim Becker]

Welcome to the 'Creek, David.

Laguna's "Platinum" line has only been on the market for a short period of time and there is little to differentiate them from other imports. Laguna is most known for their Euro bandsaws and to a certain extent, a unique table saw that can be both a cabinet saw and a slider.

Invicta has little presence in distribution, although I "think" they had some relationship with Delta at some point. Brazil HQ? Or something like that? I don't often see that name mentioned.

[J.R. Rutter]

Invicta did at least the casting for Rockwell/Delta years ago. I have an RC-63 planer that was cast by them. I think the Invicta jointers are the same as the Delta "DJ" series. Good stuff.

[abram godshall]

my cousin has a delta 16" jointer which in fact is really an invicta and he has used it for years and swears by it. he is a professional woodworker with 30+ years experience and buys nothing but quality equipment.

[Chip Lindley]

The first Rockwell RC33 13" planers were Invicta. Mine has *Invicta* on the nameplate in addition to *Rockwell* Its good stuff! I have enjoyed mine since 1985, and it was bought *barely* used even then!

[Jack Briggs]

Delta sold Invicta models under their name for a while from the mid '80's. My RU50 pin router is made by Invicta, as are the DJ-15 and DJ-20 jointers.

Invicta makes some very heavy stuff.

[Dave Bureau]

I have an Invecta IJ20 8" jointer. Same as the delta DJ20. Invecta made Delta until the went to china. Great machine. And it is for sale by the way.
Dave

[Adam Grills]

If you are still tossing the 8 or 12" in your head - just go 12" you will be happy with you descision every time you use it. Not only do you get a wider cut but more mass in a machine. Cutterhead diameter makes a big difference in quality cut. Bigger is better.
Adam

[Todd Solomon]

David,

I'm just about to put up for sale my 12" Grizzly G9860 Ultimate Jointer. This is part of their industrial line, not the typical consumer stuff. It's extremely heavy duty, tables are dead flat and parallel, and it's in like-new condition. I have a brand new knife set, as well as a 2nd used set that can be sent for sharpening, while you're using the other set. I've only used it for a few projects.

The catch is that I live in San Jose, CA, and it would need to be picked up there. Are you within driving range?


http://grizzly.com/products/The-Ultimate-12-Jointer/G9860

[Mike Heidrick]

Delta DJ30 is the 12" model. Really nice and stout.

That Ultimate Griz for sale depending on the price would be a crazy nice machine if you could afford and go get it.

[Bruce Page]

The Laguna's free shipping is awfully tempting! I sure would like to upgrade from my little 6” PM - if I could find the room, The Laguna is a nice looking machine. You mention that it includes a “carbide insert cutter head”. Reading the specs on it, they say that it comes with “Laguna’s Shear-Tec spiral cutterhead”. Two different creatures, no?


Welcome to SMC.

Edit: I just did a little more looking around for info on the Laguna “Shear-Tec” cutter head (Couldn’t find anything on Laguna’s site”:rolleyes:). FWW.com had some info and it is indeed a carbide insert head. http://blogs.taunton.com/n/blogs/blog.aspx?nav=main&webtag=fw-editorsblog&entry=304
That makes it even more tempting…

[David L. Anthony]

Thanks guys for the welcome, replies and offer. I should probably update my profile. I live in Maryland ,so unless your offer Todd is really good, I am going to have to pass :D. I could only find one dealer/distributor (? ) for the Invicta and they are in North Carolina. The Invicta looks like a very stout machine, but so far other than the old stuff, nobody seems to have much knowledge of them. The Laguna also seems like a decent machine. It has dovetail ways and not parallelogram which I would prefer, but I really like the fence arrangement. Another plus is that it comes with the sher -tec spiral cutter head which I think has carbide cutters (I thought the little cutters were called inserts). The free shipping is also attractive.

I went to Skarie in Baltimore last week and looked at a DJ-20 and General Internationals 8 and 12" machines . I am not sure what all the fuss is about the Delta. I wasn't that impressed. The General Int. were nice machines. They are still in the running. I haven't actually seen any Grizzly models yet. The price points are good and they are close enough to me that I could go pick up a machine in Muncy, Pa. I'd still like to see and touch what ever the choice is before I buy it.


Dave

[Todd Solomon]

I went to Skarie in Baltimore last week and looked at a DJ-20 and General Internationals 8 and 12" machines . I am not sure what all the fuss is about the Delta. I wasn't that impressed. The General Int. were nice machines. They are still in the running. I haven't actually seen any Grizzly models yet. The price points are good and they are close enough to me that I could go pick up a machine in Muncy, Pa. I'd still like to see and touch what ever the choice is before I buy it.


Dave

The Grizzly high-end stuff is really nice. I understand their mid-line jointers are too. Most of my machinery is Felder, and I would put my Grizzly jointer at nearly the quality and performance of the Felders. I've seen the Invictas up close, and have used Deltas in woodworking schools. The Invicta seems beefy, it's based off of the old Deltas, which were made there in Brazil. I'm not sure it's of the quality that my Grizzly is, but decent. I'm not a big fan of the Laguna organization. I would imagine their jointer is pretty nice, though. If I were buying a new non-european jointer, I'd probably go with Grizzly brand again.

[David Keller NC]

"The Laguna also seems like a decent machine. It has dovetail ways and not parallelogram which I would prefer, but I really like the fence arrangement. Another plus is that it comes with the sher -tec spiral cutter head which I think has carbide cutters (I thought the little cutters were called inserts). The free shipping is also attractive."

I should note here that Laguna has a really bad reputation for cutomer service and support. Not sure about the creek, but if you search for "Laguna" on the FWW Knots forum, you'll see way more horror stories than could result from a minor aberration. I'm also one of those scratching their heads over this - a couple of years back I wanted one of their bandsaws, and called the company to find out if there were any dealers in NC that I could go to and check the machine out in person. They never returned my call, so I decided to look elsewhere.

Personally, I believe a company should be punished severely for having crappy customer service, so I've decided I won't buy anything Laguna, whether or not I could get a decent machine. There's just way too many companies in the business.

[Adam Grills]

Okay I will bite. I own Laguna and know many people that own them as well. They have great quality equipment! Few and far between has customer service been needed and has always been great!

Maybe there are a bunch of people that don't know how to run/ set up equipment (probably need to go back to high school shop for a basics course)- Probably the people that like to take a 12" board and rip it into 3" only to glue back up thinking its better :confused:

[Doug Shepard]

I was a bit turned off when shopping for a BS by Laguna's Used Car Salesman type sales approach and ended up going with another brand. I've also read the customer support horror stories on WW forums and obviously so have Laguna, and it's obvious that they have lost sales over it and have gotten beaten up pretty badly on the forums over it. I happened to notice on their site that they have a fairly detailed page describing how they handle CS responses. http://www.lagunatools.com/service.aspx
So if this is to be taken at face value, maybe they're finally trying to address some of their shortcomings?

[JohnMorgan of Lititz]

David,

I took a very hard look at Laguna Platinum 8" Jointer and 15" planer a couple weeks back. I ended up going w/ Grizzly simply because they were very comparable machines on the spec. sheet. Also, I bought both J&P from Grizzly for what the Laguna Planer alone would have cost. The jointer's were comprable priced.

I did speak w/ a salesman and had two good conversations about laguna and their commitment to quality. I brought up the reputation for bad customer service and he was aware; he said they were really trying to turn things around and was fully aware that the Internet has really forced them to pay better attention to quality and CS...word travels worldwide quickly these days.

The clincher for me however, was the fact that their website was using Grizzly pictures for the 8" jointer. I kid you not. When i realized this, i brought it to the salesman's attention and within a day, they had proper pictures in place. My "beef" was the fact that he was asking a premium price, yet still was not differentiating his product - the Grizzly machine pics just sealed the deal against Laguna.

However, all in all, I think they have some fantastic looking machines and would love a bandsaw from them one of these days if the need arises.

[John Shuk]

Okay I will bite. I own Laguna and know many people that own them as well. They have great quality equipment! Few and far between has customer service been needed and has always been great!

Maybe there are a bunch of people that don't know how to run/ set up equipment (probably need to go back to high school shop for a basics course)- Probably the people that like to take a 12" board and rip it into 3" only to glue back up thinking its better :confused:


Or maybe some people have had legitimate problems that weren't resolved to their satisfaction.
I for one had just such an issue. I can't report on anyone else's troubles with them but I'd never buy from them again. I fell that I paid way too much of a premium for the tool that I got to have been treated as though I bought a yard sale item. Being across the country from them made things much more difficult to resolve.

[Jonathan Spool]

David,
I too am comparing the Laguna 12" jointer with the Grizzly 0609 with the Shelx head. As I live in WA, if I pay the price for the standard Grizzly 4 blade + the shelix head + shipping and tax, I'm basically at the same price as the Laguna as there is free shipping and no tax. Now my comp factors are dovetailed tables vs parralellogram, and the quality of the Laguna head which has 6 rows of cutters compared to the Byrd shelix. RMP of the two machines is identical.
One should note that the Laguna inserts are quite expensive at $5 each x 78 = $390. I'm not sure what the Shelix inserts run for a full set.
While the Laguna fence looks excellent, I can't figure out what the Griz fence runs on, and talking to one of the reps (who told me it didn't move across the bed!) didn't enlighten me at all.
I'd be interested to see what you choose.
Jonathan

[Bill Neely]

Just a word here: Laguna, as far as I know, has never had a problem with quality. There have been some complaints about customer service but that hasn't been my experience. I have a TSS that I bought used and the customer support has been very good.

[David L. Anthony]

Does this: http://www.lobomachine.com/products_detail.asp?id=147 look alot like this: http://www.lagunatools.com/jointer.platinum12.aspx ? Anyone have any experience with Lobo Machines and more importantly support?

[Rick Fisher]

I have had terrible luck with SCMI for parts/service. I have been waiting 2 months for a bandsaw table insert and a wheel kit. Not uncommon parts. This is not the first time I have been amazed at SCMI's lack of concern for keeping their machinery running.

Bad customer service is usually always a top down problem. After all the bad reports I have heard about Laguna, I would never buy one of their machines because although they are working on the problem, the company would still prefer to treat customers the old way.

The company that I have had the best service from is Felder. It could be the rep in our area but I find Felder to be very concerned with post sales service.

I have 6 General tools and had some problems with a few of them when new. I would report that the C/S from General was very good and prompt. In the end, they sent me a free set of helical head cutter inserts as a gift, I didnt ask for anything or imply that I wanted anything and actually turned them down. They had the local tool store deliver them to my home.

I have been looking for a used 12" Jointer for almost a year. I have found a few SCMI 16" machines but cannot stomach the idea of ordering parts.