Circular saw on a budget

[Ryan Swanson]

Hey guys,

New here, serious amateur woodworker (haven't done much but refinish one table since high school woodshop).

I'm working on building shelving for my closet (12" wide 3/4" MDF supported by 1x4s) and maybe a bookcase-style shoe rack that would be perhaps 15-18" deep.

I've concluded that a circular saw is going to be my best choice...a sliding compound miter or a table saw would be awesome, but I don't have $500 to spend.

I have about $100 in gift cards to Lowe's and would like to buy there, but of course that limits my choices and also forces me to pay their prices which I know are not the lowest.

The other issue is that if I ultimately get a sliding compound miter and/or table saw (in the next two years or so) then will I ever use my circular saw anymore? Which causes me to wonder if it makes sense to spend $120+ on a quality model (DeWalt, etc) if I won't use it down the road.

This job is such that a $50 Skil would be sufficient...again, I am no pro, and I am poor (well, house poor for the moment)

Thoughts?

[Todd Crawford]

A lot of people will proably disagree with me on this, but I have several SKIL tools that I have had for about 8 years now that I still get pretty good use out of. When we bought our house, there was a lot of work that had to be done just to make it livable for a few years. I was the only one working and we were on a very limited budget. I bought a SKIL circular saw, jigsaw, and plunge router. I knew they weren't the best tools but I was hoping to get a couple of jobs out of them and then I was planning to upgrade later. Well, I do have a couple of new routers now, but I am still using that jigsaw and circular saw. I think I paid $35 each for them when I bought them. I know they probably won't last forever, and one day I'll upgrade, but they are working great for me right now.

[Gene Howe]

My circular saw is a 25 y.o. Skil worm drive. A heavy beast for sure but, accurate and reliable. :)

[Rob Young]

Which ever saw you get, save back a little extra money and get a good 40T combination blade to fit. With some exceptions, the stock blades are generally 24T rippers and won't be the greatest cross cut blade. Freud blades are generally pretty good stuff as are the DeWalt for a little less money.

I bought an inexpensive Ryobi but replaced its blade (didn't even have carbide teeth) with a DeWalt combination blade and I've been using it mostly for cutting down plywood panels and rough sizing lumber. Not exactly demanding work.

[Todd Crawford]

I secong the new blade recommendation. That is what I did as well.

[Loren Hedahl]

Axial play is what causes a cheap circular saw to make bad cuts.

It's easy to check. Just grab the arbor and see how much in-and-out movement it has. Ideally there will be no perceptible movement.

Other discrepancies such as the edge of the base not being exactly parallel to the blade can be dealt with after purchase. But axial play adjustment requires shimming the thrust bearing correctly and isn't so easily done.

[Neal Clayton]

and the answer is yes you'll always find use for a skilsaw even when you get bigger machines, even if it's just cutting up long scraps to throw in the truck and haul off.

check your local craigslist, there's never a shortage of small power tools for sale in most places.

[Jim Kountz]

The base plate is another big issue for me when it comes to circ saws. I have some Dewalts and there are a couple of different models but the one I like is the one with the solid aluminum shoe not the black one. The Porter Cables I have (one left and one right) have a nice solid plate on them too and resist bending really well. I ended up with a Hitachi saw too somehow and it actually has a nice bottom plate on it. Some of the cheaper saws will have flimsy plates that are just cheap metal and they get all bent and whacked up. The makes it impossible to get a nice square cut as the saw constantly wants to rock side to side while cutting. If the circ saw is going to be your only weapon in your arsenal for a while, Id get a decent one. With a nice straight guide and some patience you can achieve quality results with one.

[Von Bickley]

Ryan,

Just starting out, you will probably get more bang for your buck with a Skil brand circular saw. You can use your gift card at Lowe's.

I don't use MDF but a lot of people on this forum do. You may want some input on what kind of load you can put on the MDF shelves.

Welcome to "The Creek"....

[Ryan Swanson]

Thanks for all the tips, folks.

Seems like there isn't much consensus :) I had a Skil that I bought several weeks ago but the base plate was a major issue (stamped steel, all out of alignment) and the laser guide was good if I was always planning on cutting about an eighth of an inch left of the red line and on about a 3 degree angle!

I had my eye on a Porter Cable at Lowe's for $59, but it's only 13 amp. Is it 15 amp or bust on any of this kind of stuff?

[Randal Stevenson]

Amperage may not matter that much depending on what you cut and your blade of choice. A cheap circular saw can do fine with a good blade. A good circular saw with a good blade is hard to beat and will last you for years. You might list that Porter Cable saw, as Porter Cable has recently been made into more of Firestorm/consumer tools (if old stock, it should be good).

You also may not need a table saw or miter saw. You should look up sawboards and panel cutting table, or you could look at commercial versions, that do more, such as the EZ Smart, down below.

[Ryan Swanson]

Yeah the Porter Cable is the new one...the 59 dollar 13 amp one that may as well be Black and Decker I believe.

Home Depot has a 99 dollar 15 amp Ridgid, and Lowes has a 89 dollar 15 amp Hitachi.

Other than that, it's jump up to the 120-130 price range for the DeWalt or Makita.

So amps isn't really that important? Why do some saws list HP and some this info is nowhere to be found?

[Jim O'Dell]

I have the Hitachi with the brake. I'm sure the one at Lowe's is the same saw without the brake. It's a decent little saw. I was very impressed. Blade is so-so. I think you'd be happier with the Hitachi for longer than the cheap Skill or new PC. And it has a 5 year warranty, P & L. Jim.

[Randal Stevenson]

So amps isn't really that important? Why do some saws list HP and some this info is nowhere to be found?

HP=advertising. You can't get 2+hp out of a 110 volt socket. There is a amp to HP conversion (don't remember it right now), but before about 1960, they listed much closer to true HP.

[Danny Thompson]

I have a Hitachi router and Hitachi drill, both from Lowes, and both are great tools. I've been very happy with both.

I would suggest giving the Hitachi a try.

Also, regardless of brand, be diligent about setting up the stops/adjustment screws so you can get a consistently square cut--base plate perpendicular to the blade, edge of the base plate parallel to the blade.

Also consider a cutting edge guide (as low as $18, I think, at Lowes) for those long plywood cuts.

One last point for anyone starting their first few projects: Never asume any cuts on boards are straight, perpendicular, or parallel. I know on my first few projects I was meticulous in my measurements and still ended up with a bunch of parallelogram boards rather than square ones.

__________
\.............. \
.\ ..............\
..\__________\

My mistake had been asuming the ends of a plywood board were already square with the sides. They were close, but not quite.

[Mac McQuinn]

I was at Menards the other day and just wondering through the tool section(I do that a lot) and was checking out circular saws. I stumbled across a Skil plug in electric 5.5" circular saw, Neat little saw, lightweight, blade on the left for clarity and looks like you could add a fence for ripping sheets. $115.00 although was on sale for $104.00. I believe it said on box you could cut 2x's @ 90 & 45 degrees. This saw would be great for cutting down sheet ply, etc. The best part was it was made in the USA. I believe i'm going back to pick one up since I work alone and cutting 4x8 sheets down to size accurately on a table saw is a PITA, back too! Lowes usually carrys Skil & I believe they price match so this might be a good choice for you. good luck!

Mac

[Chris Kennedy]

You don't seem to be using large or particularly thick stock. Might I suggest a good jigsaw? You can get the Bosch 1587 for $90, which is a good price for a very good saw.

I started with a circ saw -- cheap Ryobi -- and these days rarely reach for it. If I am ripping anything down that is less than an inch, I grab my jigsaw instead. I find it a lot easier to control and makes better cuts.

If you are planning on cutting thicker stock in the future, the circ saw may be a good idea, but you might want to give some though to a good jigsaw.

Cheers,

Chris

[Jason White]

Spend a few extra bucks and get a Skil worm-drive. It'll last the rest of your life.



My circular saw is a 25 y.o. Skil worm drive. A heavy beast for sure but, accurate and reliable. :)

[John Sanford]

I'll echo what Chris Kennedy said. Rather than a circular saw, get a jigsaw. The Bosch 1587 can be had at Lowe's for @$100, and until it was recently superseded by their new model, it set the standard for jigsaws.

A circular saw cuts quicker, and it can make deeper cuts, but a jigsaw can do a lot more. Plus, by getting either the 1587 or its big brother (the 1590/91), you will be getting a tool that you're unlikely to ever need to replace, and that will still be used frequently in your woodworking. A circular saw is more of a construction jobsite tool rather than shop tool.

[Jeff Bratt]

I had my eye on a Porter Cable at Lowe's for $59, but it's only 13 amp. Is it 15 amp or bust on any of this kind of stuff?

Without commenting on the specific models you mentioned, the difference between 13 and 15 amps is probably not noticeable. Other stuff will matter more. Also, ignore any HP numbers on this type of tool - they mean nothing.

I use a circular saw - with a guide (http://home.roadrunner.com/%7Ejeffnann/WoodWorking/JigsAndFixtures/JigsAndFixtures.html#Circular_Saw_Guide_) - for cutting up sheet goods. Plus the EurekaZone (http://sawmillcreek.org/forumdisplay.php?f=26) folks use circular saws for everything. With a good blade, and some jigs, a hand-held circular saw can do quite a bit of good woodworking.

[Kev Godwin]

Another vote for a first power saw being a jig-saw. I still have my first one and it is still used all these years later. I have had several low-end circular saws come and go before getting the higher end circ saws.
Kev

[Bill Houghton]

Spend a few extra bucks and get a Skil worm-drive. It'll last the rest of your life.

They can be hard to learn how to use. They seem to be great for carpenters, but I think the regular user is better off with a sidewinder.

[Stephen Edwards]

Spend a few extra bucks and get a Skil worm-drive. It'll last the rest of your life.

I've got my Dad's Skil worm-drive that was made in the late 40s or early 50s. I rarely use it now but it's surely built like a "Tank". The only repair that's ever been done to it was replacing the cord one time, a few years back.

It's too bulky for my tastes for using in the shop, even though it is a hoss. For years I bought the cheap $40-50 saws, several brands. When something went wrong with them I'd toss them. 3 years ago I bought a nice Dewalt for $125, I think it was. I've really enjoyed it and use it frequently in the shop and out of the shop.

[Kevin Stricker]

A cheap circular saw with a good blade ( $20 dollar Freud 60T will be fine), and a good straight edge will get you a lot farther than a good saw with a stock blade and no guide. The guide is key to getting straight cuts for anything more than 6" until you have developed a feel for using your saw. I used a $60 dollar Skil for years until I decided to upgrade...

It's always nice to have a beater circular saw around if you want to make a big mess and cut some drywall or backerboard....

I disagree with the jig saw comment.....very hard to get straight cuts over a distance, which you will want to do to make those shelves. Jigsaws are great tools, but you can get by with a $10 dollar hand saw to get you the cuts you cannot make with your circular saw until you can afford/decide to get more power cutting tools.

[Rick Potter]

Think used, check Craigs List. Around here, there are always bargains. Some item are even like new.

Rick Potter

[Robert Fordham]

Look at Eureka Zone a sponser on the creek.

[Ryan Swanson]

Thanks for ALL the great input folks.

End result, for those reading, is that I got a DeWalt. Lowe's had the DW367 (their most basic model) marked down from $100 to $85, and then minus a 10% coupon I ended up getting it for $76...

While it may be "value" for the DeWalt line, I think I'll be happier with this than a 13 amp Skil for only a $16 price difference.

[Danny Thompson]

Best of luck, Ryan. Clamp, guide, and watch those fingers!

[John Schreiber]

. . . A circular saw is more of a construction jobsite tool rather than shop tool.
I've just got to disagree with you John. :) With a shop made guide or even better a really solid guide like the EZ-Smart, a circular saw can be a tool for quality woodworking.

[Danny Thompson]

I love my Bosch 1591, but would never rely on it for a perfectly straight edge. I would rely on a circular saw with a guide and a good blade to produce one.

[Robert Fordham]

Ryan,

a great chance to save $ 50
Dino is running a 1 day special on Ebay for the SGS-100 inch guide rail system.

search Ebay for eurekazone.

[Matt Ellis]

for future reference, you may want to check your local pawn shops. when i was in college and didn't have ANY change to spare, i bought a DW359 for about $50 at a pawn shop. it wasn't pretty, but i've since worn out countless blades, and it keeps on ticking. probably one of the better $50 investments of my life.

you can always find other uses for your gift cards.

-matt

[Matt Schell]

I absolutely love the power, torque and smoothness of my 15amp makita saw. My friend has a 13 amp budget (newer) skil saw and it feels extremely underpowered. I also have a framer friend who swears by his skil wormdrive (but I think the contractor grade skil wormdrives are an entirely different animal than the homeowner grade skil sidewinder saw)

I am not sure if it is the amps or the rpms. I know my makita runs at 5800 rpms and cuts like butter. I am not sure about the rpms on the skil but it felt like the blade was spinning slowly I kept waiting for it to get up to speed and then realized it was up to speed.

I have also had a 13 amp craftsman that handled material very well so again maybe it is not so much amps as rpms.

I think that 15 amp rigid for 99.00 sounds decent.

Lastly I have seen several 15 amp, nice, heavy duty dewalts and makitas listed on the philly/south jersey craigslist for between 50 and 75 dollars. they were used but if they are in good condition, they are professional contractor grade tools with lots of power that will last a long time.

[Mike Schueler]

I started with a Skil saw that I still have. I was able to make a coffee table and a really boring but functional TV stand/entertainment center with only the skilsaw, drill, and sander.

Sure, my lines weren't perfectly straight but you can get it to work if you really want to. I use the dewault blades on it, and still find many uses despite having a jigsaw, tablesaw and rip saw now. For example, cutting plywood to size, and cross cutting boards too long for the tablesaw or miter saw.

If it were me, I would still get the cheap skilsaw and use the other $$ for a blade and wood to play with.

[Tom Hargrove]

I used to think that 13 amps was plenty. When my 13 amp Skil saw fell once too often, I found that I needed a new one. It still cuts, just not in a line that is parallel with the base. Before it fell, it never failed me, and has cut everything from masonite to concrete blocks over the past 15 years.

I lucked out in finding a 15 amp Porter Cable (324MAG) that was on sale at my local tool store. It may only be two more amps, but the difference is significant. Last weekend, I used it to cut the ends off some 1 3/4" oak, and it hardly slowed down. The cuts were finish quality, even with an average quality blade. The 13 amp saw would have been straining, and/or would have burned the wood.

I have a table saw, chop saw, band saw, jig saw and several different types of handsaw. However, I still use my circular saw quite often, and think in the long run you will be better off with a better saw.

[James Ayars]

I still use the Craftsman 12 amp that I bought 15 years ago for ~$40. A couple years ago I tried a 36 tooth thin kerf blade in place of a 24 tooth combo blade. That thin kerf, 36 tooth made it like a new saw. I've used it to rip 8 foot lengths of 3/4" plywood with no problems. I use a piece of angle iron as a cutting guide and get lines that are plenty straight. I have a table saw but still use my circular saw for many things.

If/when this saw gives up the ghost, I might go with a $100+ saw or I might go with a Skil/B&D, put another good blade on it and keep cutting. I just wish one of the lower price saws would come out in a left blade model.

Last year I bought one of my employees a 13amp B&D for ~$50, and he's used to build a living room full of furniture, a bed, free standing shelves, spotting boxes, repair a deck, low platforms and a few other things. He's definately gotten my $50 worth out of that saw.

As to pawn shops, the ones around here offer no bargains that I can see. Many sell beat up power tools for more than the cost of a new one.

James

[Charles Robertson]

Been using Bosch and Makita since they came to the U.S. Never regretted owning any of their tools and using them in the construction/woodworking field. I always recommend that you lean toward the pro-line of tools. Since you probably will not be using them every day, it will probably be left to your grand children to use or get rid of them, cause they still won't be worn out. As has been said here before, the cheapest way to go is to spend more for quality ---once. I prefer the 7&1/4 Makita contractor saw, but have used others I also liked. If you are not used to it, the skill worm gear is heavy, but the best, in my eyes, for prepping rough lumber for milling. It just won't bog down or die,( will out last your great, great, grand-children). Bosch jig saw---the best. Please don't look too hard at the price tags. Just give up food and drink for a week or two, to make up the difference. You will be glad you did. A.

[Stephen Edwards]

As has been said here before, the cheapest way to go is to spend more for quality ---once.

Yeah, what he said! I could have saved a lot of money over the years had I learned that lesson earlier. Better late than never.................

[Larry Edgerton]

I've just got to disagree with you John. :) With a shop made guide or even better a really solid guide like the EZ-Smart, a circular saw can be a tool for quality woodworking.

I will agree with this except that I feel a good shopmade guide is far superior to the EZ or any other.

My chioce has always been Porter Cable, but now that Dewalt has ruined the lineup I would go with the Bosch or Hitachi with the cast tables. The base design is all important, it must be able to stay ridged, or the cut can never be perfect. I liike the aluminum or cast saw bases as they can be filed to be in parallel to the blade if there is any discrepency.

I bought a Dewalt last year and gave it away after 5 minutes of use, the worst saw I had ever used ergonomically, for me. I have some Makitas, they are tough, but not what you are after as they are not quite up to shop standards.

My favorite in the shop is a Porter Cable Speedmatic from the 40's or so. It is heavy but the cut is better than some tablesaws, and for guided use the weight is a blessing.

I would suggest you either buy a really good one[Bosch-Hitachi, etc.] or a cheap one that you will use for rough work in the future. If you buy a compromise it will be with you for far too long.

There are used tools on FleaBay, I pick a lot of them up there. That is where I got my old Speedmatic for $20.

[Jason White]

I'm not a "pro" carpenter (though I'm no slouch), but I've owned 2 or 3 sidewinders and wished I'd bought a worm-drive the first time. I have the Bosch 1677, but a Skill 77 any other worm drive is money well spent.

I don't agree that it's hard to "learn," though some people might have trouble lifting it. However, if you're cutting things like plywood it's not really an issue because the saw is resting on the material when you're cutting. Also, if you ever do framing, most come with built-in rafter hooks (a blessing you won't appreciate until you need it).

Did I mention you can see the cut line better because of where the blade is placed?

The added weight of the saw actually makes for better cuts, especially if you're using an edge guide. Much less chance of the saw moving around when you don't want it to. My sidewinders had a tendency to jump back out of the cut once in awhile. That has never happened with my worm drive.

Wormies are also great for the occasional brick or concrete that you might have to cut with a diamond blade.

For what it's worth, they're also a couple pounds lighter than they used to be (more aluminum, magnesium, etc.).

JW


They can be hard to learn how to use. They seem to be great for carpenters, but I think the regular user is better off with a sidewinder.

[Carl Babel]

Ryan, that DeWalt should serve you well. Some upgrade suggestions:

+1 for a good thin kerf blade! I have a PC (pre-B&D) that was a good tool with the stock blade. I added a Freud think-kerf and now it is a laser-line-straight-cutting, wood-devouring monster. :D

Make or buy a crosscut guide, something like this: http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=11466

Make or buy one or more rip guides. Can be as simple as some 1/4" hardboard and plywood (start with factory edge for first straight cut).

Shopnotes magazine had a great tip about a auxiliary base plate, with a zero clearance slot, that still allowed the guard to work. Just search the web for "circular saw zero clearance insert shopnotes". I found it pretty easily, but didn't want to post the link here, since it didn't look authorized...

Above all, be safe.