Need to edge join 1/4 stock

[Leigh Betsch]

Tonight I was re-sawing some 5/4 x 9" x 18" cherry for a 7/16 x 16 x 18 book-match. I screwed up the band-saw cut and by the time I got the wood jointed and planed flat again I have 4 pieces 1/4 x 4 1/2 x 18. I need to edge join these pieces so I can get the 16 wide book-match. I can live with 1/4 instead of 7/16 wide stock but I don't know the best method to get a strong 1/4 edge joint. At 7/16 I was planning to use a 1/8" spline to align the pieces and increase the glue surface, but I worry that if I try to use a 1/8 spline in 1/4 wide stock it will just crack the 1/4 stock. I could laminate the 1/4 stock to 1/4 mdf or plywood, does anyone know if I would have wood movement problems? Any suggestion on how to get a strong 1/4 edge joint?

[Jim Kountz]

Glue, masking tape and clamps with some weights. I use bricks. Weigh the middle down so it doesnt bow on you when you apply pressure. A simple edge to edge joint should be fine assuming you have two clean mating surfaces.

[Leigh Betsch]

Do you use any clamps to squeeze the edges together or do you just clamp the stock flat to a flat bench top?

[Mike Henderson]

If you want to clamp it, make yourself a set of cauls (2x4s run through the jointer to make sure they're flat, then put packing tape on one side to keep the glue from getting to them). Put one set (usually 2) cauls down with the packing tape side up, then put your work on top of them. Then put the other cauls directly above the lower ones, with the packing tape side down. Clamp the cauls together lightly - lightly enough that the work can move between the cauls. Then use clamps to clamp your work. You can then tighten the clamps on the cauls, if you want.

The cauls keep the work from bowing during clamping and help to align the joint.

Every shop should have cauls for gluing up panels (or table tops, or any flat glue job), whether they be 1/4" or 3/4". I have cauls in different lengths but a good start is 48" because you can make two from an 8' 2x4.

Mike

When you put your lower cauls down, it's a good idea to put them on some blocks so you can get your clamps under them.

[Matt Zettl]

Leigh,

What I have done in the past is basically a variation of a miter fold. In this case, the edges are cut at 90 degrees as opposed to 45. Here is how I have done it:

-Joint the edges straight and true at 90 degrees
-Lay out the pieces edge to edge like you want them
-Using masking tape or blue painter's tape, tape the edges together. Use some long pieces, about 8-10" or so, running perpendicular to the joint about 6" apart. You can use these tape strips to pull up the joint as tight as you can get it. Then run a strip along the length of the joint, and make sure all the tape is stuck down well. At this point, you will have tape on one side of the joint only, and have used no glue.
-Now flip the piece over, and carefully open the joint up. You can now run a bead of glue down the joint.
-Lay it flat again, and you will see glue squeeze out all along the joint.
-Repeat the above taping process on this side.
-No clamps necessary

Since you are gluing up four boards, I would glue up two pairs first, then do the final center joint. You could do this all at once, or in stages.

I hope this helps. It is one technique, the others as suggested above would work as well. For me this is simple, low tech, and effective.

Matt

[mike holden]

Leigh,
Dont overthink this. I glued up a lot of panels for drawer dividers in my spice chests. Bessey uniklamps, hot hide glue, and just enough pressure to hold the edges together. They worked like a champ.
The extra f-clamp in the one pic is to close a gap, should have just put both boards edge up in the vice and skimmed them with a plane but was lazy.
Mike

106976

These are panels for the tops of the spice chests

106977

The edge glued panels are in the stack on the right, the rest are drawer sides and backs. mh

[Rick Hubbard]

Somewhere here on SMC there is a thread showing a really slick way of edge gluing thin stock (complete with pictures). I can’t seem to find it, but it is super-simple and really works slick for 2 pieces at a time.

Here it is in a nut shell:

1. lay the stock you want to edge glue side by side on a piece of plywood.
2. cut 2 pieces of ¾ inch scrap wood cleats the same length as the pieces you are gluing
3. screw one piece of the scrap wood cleat to the plywood.
4. butt both glue-up pieces against the cleat.
5. draw a line on the plywood opposite the cleat using the 2 pieces of glue up stock as a guide, them remove the glue up pieces.
6. screw the second cleat to the plywood, placing it about 1/32” inside the line you just drew.
7. place a piece of waxed paper between the cleats.
8. apply glue to edges of the stock and place it between the cleats so the two pieces of stock form a little tent.
9. force (meaning you COULD tap it with a mallet) the peak of the tent down against the plywood and place a heavy weight on the stock.
10. go have a cup of coffee.

I’ve used this technique a few times and it really works great. I’m not sure how well it would work using more than 2 pieces, but I suspect the same principle would apply.

Rick

[Doug Shepard]

Similar to Ricks method but putting the cleats wider appart and using tapered wedges tapped between the side edges and cleats.

[Rod Sheridan]

Sorry for the thread Hijack however I just read Ricks signature line

"Machinery has greatly increased the number of well-to-do idlers" (Karl Marx).

And a good thing to, as most of us idlers are here at the Creek discussing purchasing more machinery....LOL.


Regards, Rod.

[Rick Hubbard]

Sorry for the thread Hijack however I just read Ricks signature line

"Machinery has greatly increased the number of well-to-do idlers" (Karl Marx).

And a good thing to, as most of us idlers are here at the Creek discussing purchasing more machinery....LOL.


Regards, Rod.

The corollary to the KM quote might be:

The PURCHASE of machinery has greatly REDUCED the number of idlers who are well-to-do:D

Rick

[David Keller NC]

"At 7/16 I was planning to use a 1/8" spline to align the pieces and increase the glue surface, but I worry that if I try to use a 1/8 spline in 1/4 wide stock it will just crack the 1/4 stock."

Leigh - It's highly questionable whether a spline will increase the strength of an edge-to-edge glue joint. The reason is that, properly done, the joint is stronger than the wood without any splines. Making the joint itself even stronger by additional manipulations is a waste of time - the wood will fail instead.

What Mike's suggested is the way to go - I've seen a number of woodworkers really struggle with all sorts of delicate clamp manipulations to get panels glued up without bow, and they've done it this way for years. Taking a Saturday morning to surface a 2" thick maple board, rip it into 3" strips, clamp the pairs together, drill the ends through, and cut 1/2" threaded rod with a hacksaw for the hardware seemed WAY more difficult to them than cussing like a sailor every time they needed to glue up a panel.

Just one panel made of cabinet-grade hardwood that comes out bowed or cupped will equal the cost of the time and small amount of materials necessary to build 3 or 4 panel clamps, and they will last longer than your lifetime if treated reasonably.

[Chris Padilla]

I could laminate the 1/4 stock to 1/4 mdf or plywood, does anyone know if I would have wood movement problems? Any suggestion on how to get a strong 1/4 edge joint?

No one seems to have addressed this issue. I think you may have serious wood movement issues laminating 1/4" hardwood to 1/4" NOT hardwood.

The problem is the wood moving and the substrate NOT moving...hence bowing and warping issue could result. You have a balance problem there.

In more of a veneering situation, your veneer would be much, much thinner than 1/4" (more like 1/16" or thinner) in order to avoid wood movement issues. Even with thin veneers, it is highly recommended that the veneer be done on both sides to keep things balanced.

Check this out: Two pieces of 5/8" MDF were laminated together. I then laminated a 1/16" walnut veneer (I resawed the walnut and sanded it down myself) to ONE SIDE ONLY (the design required this) and guess what?! It bowed the panel a good 1/16" to 3/32" of an inch in the middle (panels was 17" x 48")!! I was completely shocked. It was easy enough to push the panel down flat again so I didn't worry too much about it. The next step for the panel was to edge-glue on some solid walnut to hide the MDF edges so I knew that would pull it flat again. However, I left the panel alone in my shop for a couple of days and the bow settle back down to nearly flat. My theory is that the glue moistened up the walnut, causing it to expand, thereby pulling on the MDF and bowing it. When it got back to normal, the panel relaxed a lot...but not completely.

Anyway, food for thought if you plan to glue that cherry to a piece of plywood or MDF. It can still be done but that cherry could pop free of the substrate one day. Be sure to use a glue that dries VERY hard...PVAs are a big no-no here (PVAs are our favorite yellow/white glues like all the Titebonds, Elmers, etc.) because they tend to remain pliable and flexible after drying. Titebond III is the best of them at drying harder if you have no other choice but it would be better to use a plastic resin glue in this case BUT, the panel may still have issues. 1/4" is a lot of wood that can move around...look what a measly 1/16" piece of wood did!

[Jim Becker]

No splines are needed...just glue it up "normally", using cauls to hold things flat.

[Lee Schierer]

Tonight I was re-sawing some 5/4 x 9" x 18" cherry for a 7/16 x 16 x 18 book-match. I screwed up the band-saw cut and by the time I got the wood jointed and planed flat again I have 4 pieces 1/4 x 4 1/2 x 18. I need to edge join these pieces so I can get the 16 wide book-match. I can live with 1/4 instead of 7/16 wide stock but I don't know the best method to get a strong 1/4 edge joint. At 7/16 I was planning to use a 1/8" spline to align the pieces and increase the glue surface, but I worry that if I try to use a 1/8 spline in 1/4 wide stock it will just crack the 1/4 stock. I could laminate the 1/4 stock to 1/4 mdf or plywood, does anyone know if I would have wood movement problems? Any suggestion on how to get a strong 1/4 edge joint?
No need for splines, special jigs or fancy clamps. Edge to edge glue joints are stronger than the wood itself. I glue up wider pieces of 1/4" all the time and use 3/4" pipe clamps, yes that's right pipe clamps. Your surface area for a 1/4" thick board is very small so you don't need a lot of pressure. I simply lay two clamps on my work surface with the jaws up. Apply glue to one edge of each piece, lay them on the clamps, align the ends where I Iwant them and lightly clamp the boards. If the board pop up in the middle you applied too much pressure. I tighten my clamps finger tight. I place my clamps about 6-8" apart and if I have a longer piece that needs more than two clamps I place clamps on alternate sides of the work.


You can also place the pieces on a flat surface and use masking tape to hold them tight to each other. FLip the taped assembly over and bend open the taped joints. Apply glue and lay the parts back flat on the table with a light weight to insure they are flat. The tape will provide enough pressure for gluing.

[lowell holmes]

I would plane the two edges together with my jointer plane and do a rub joint. You apply glue to both edges and rub them together. Let the glue dry.

I have done this in the past. Sometimes, the neander way is less work. :-)

[Bill Keehn]

I would plane the two edges together with my jointer plane and do a rub joint. You apply glue to both edges and rub them together. Let the glue dry.

I have done this in the past. Sometimes, the neander way is less work. :-)

I think a rub joint would work fine too. When you joint both edges together with the plane, make sure the good faces are facing opposite directions. You could do this on a power jointer too, but do it one piece at a time and make sure to do one piece with good face towards the fence and one with good face away.

[Leigh Betsch]

Thanks a bunch. You've all given me some good ideas. I just bought a set of used Bowclamps from a member so now I have a good application to try them out. I'll avoid the mdf/plywood lamination. My biggest concern was if an unreinforced 1/4 joint would be strong enough. So I'm good to go. I like Rick suggestion of plywood and cleats to force the edges together, I'll just add the bowclamps over the top to hold it all down. I gotta think about the match power planing of the edges.

[Brian Effinger]

I like Rick suggestion of plywood and cleats to force the edges together, I'll just add the bowclamps over the top to hold it all down. I gotta think about the match power planing of the edges.
It seems to me that bowclamps might be a little too much for keeping the boards flat. I would think that you would want just enough pressure to keep them flat, but not so much that it prevents them from sliding together when you apply the side clamps. I don't own any bowclamps, so maybe someone that does can chime in and confirm. I may be wrong. It happens occasionally, or if you ask my wife - all of the time. :D

[Mike Henderson]

Thanks a bunch. You've all given me some good ideas. I just bought a set of used Bowclamps from a member so now I have a good application to try them out. I'll avoid the mdf/plywood lamination. My biggest concern was if an unreinforced 1/4 joint would be strong enough. So I'm good to go. I like Rick suggestion of plywood and cleats to force the edges together, I'll just add the bowclamps over the top to hold it all down. I gotta think about the match power planing of the edges.
If you do a good glue up, the joint will be stronger than the wood. That's true on veneer, 1/4" material, or 4/4 material.

Mike

[Vince Shriver]

Somewhere here on SMC there is a thread showing a really slick way of edge gluing thin stock (complete with pictures). I can’t seem to find it, but it is super-simple and really works slick for 2 pieces at a time.

Here it is in a nut shell:

1. lay the stock you want to edge glue side by side on a piece of plywood.
2. cut 2 pieces of ¾ inch scrap wood cleats the same length as the pieces you are gluing
3. screw one piece of the scrap wood cleat to the plywood.
4. butt both glue-up pieces against the cleat.
5. draw a line on the plywood opposite the cleat using the 2 pieces of glue up stock as a guide, them remove the glue up pieces.
6. screw the second cleat to the plywood, placing it about 1/32” inside the line you just drew.
7. place a piece of waxed paper between the cleats.
8. apply glue to edges of the stock and place it between the cleats so the two pieces of stock form a little tent.
9. force (meaning you COULD tap it with a mallet) the peak of the tent down against the plywood and place a heavy weight on the stock.
10. go have a cup of coffee.

I’ve used this technique a few times and it really works great. I’m not sure how well it would work using more than 2 pieces, but I suspect the same principle would apply.

Rick

I've done exactly as you've described - works great.