Nail gun

[Stefan Antwarg]

Hi

I have started framing my basement for finishing. It has only taken me several studs to find out that toenailing 3 inch nails is a major PITA. So, I thought that it may be a good idea to get a nail gun (any excuse for another tool :)). My parents own a pretty good sized air compressor that they will lend me. But I need some recommendations for the nail gun. I don't know anything about the compressor that they have, but I know it is not set up for this type of job (it is used for a custom inventor made use). What will I have to buy to make the compressor work with the gun? As you can see, I know nothing about these types of tools.

Thanks
Stefan

[Todd Burch]

Stefan, you'll need to determine the CFM output of the compressor, and make sure it is sufficient for use with whichever nail gun you choose.

I prefer Senco nail guns. Hitachi nail guns are what all the local framers use around here day-in and day-out. Most every framer will shoot a 3 1/4" nail. Only a few shoot 3 1/2" nails. There are full round head nails and clip head nails. Some jurisdictions (like around here in hurricane-prone counties) don't allow clip head nails. (The "D" shaped heads.)

You'll most likely need an air regulator between the compressor and the gun to limit the PSI to the gun. A water-trap of some sort is also good. These regulators/traps can be had as one unit too.

A 1/4" ID hose is sufficient. 50' hoses are common. The cheaper hoses will kink quicker than the better hoses. The type "T" (automotive) quick connects are popular and readily available.

Finally, there are two types of triggers. A restrictive trigger and a non-restrictive trigger. The restrictive trigger is safer and for occasional use, it is fine (I use one). It makes sure that you can't double-fire.


Todd

[Michael Cody]

I use a Pasload cordless nailer, ie it uses butane to drive nails. Works great as long as the butane is fresh. It will shoot 3" nails fine & no hose to drag around. I also have a Hitachi NR83A -- best nail gun for the money ever made IMNSHO - all the contractors here in MI use them, they are a little heavy but just about bulletproof. You can get them on Ebay for 150-180$ used and about 225-250$ new, usually and if it looks beat it will probably still work fine. Pretty much any normal compressor will drive it... I used it for outside framing on my house (have remodeled or built 6 now) .. and other uses where I am driving a lot of nails, it's a ton faster than the pasload. I have have shot maybe 7k nails with the pasload and it works good and it's my choice for inside work and remodeling.

[Chris Padilla]

If you guys look at the "Similar Threads" category at the bottom of this frame, you'll see Doc's posting about the infamous Nail Gun accidents...gives me the heebie-jeebies every time I see it! Be careful with whatever nail gun you end up with!

[Dale Thompson]

Stephan,
I FINALLY agree with San Josey on SOMETHING!! ;) If you are only looking at this investment to "frame your basement", I would suggest that you live with the PITA of toenailing. An alternative is to use drive screws with a spacer between the studs. The nailers which "drive" 3"+ nails can be extremely dangerous to the inexperienced user. If you drive too close to the edge of a board, the nail can "curl" and come back at YOU!! :( If you drive at too steep of an angle, the same thing can happen. :eek:

What bothers ME the most is when I am driving a nail and the exhaust is pointed in the wrong way. I get REALLY vexed when that exhaust blows my hat across the room. If there were contaminants in the air, what happens to the eyes? :(

Lastly, the cost of setting up a system is probably excessive for "framing a basement". Oilers, filters, quick-connects, stress-relief connectors, eye protection, HEARING protection, the nailer itself, etc., etc.

When I finish basements, I usually make up the walls on the floor so that I can avoid "toenailing". I then raise the wall and nail it directly into the floor joists - again - no "toenailing".

Just a thought from a simple mind, Stephan. ;) :)

Dale T.

[Jamie Buxton]

Stefan --

I'm sure you'll get lots of advice about buying more tools from all the tool junkies on this board. <G> However, I can tell you two tips to make toenailing less of a PITA -- without buying a nail gun.

First, don't toenail with 16d nails. Use 8d. 16s tend to split the end of the stud. Furthermore, because you're not nailing through the full 1.5" thickness of the stud, you don't need a 16. As a bonus, 8s are shorter and smaller diameter, so they're easier to drive.

Second, use a cheater block. Say you want to toenail a vertical member (a stud) to a horizontal member (a sill plate). Next to where you want the stud to land, nail a block to the sill. Then put the stud in place and put your toe nails in the face away from the block. The block stops the stud from running away from you under the hammer impact. Nails drive more easily, and the stud winds up where you want it.

Jamie

[Stefan Antwarg]

Thanks for all the info. Even those who suggest not to use the nail gun. To be honest, as cool as it is to get a new tool, I really didn't want to spend so much money. And I didn't realize there would be so many accessories. Plus, of all the tools out there, this seems to be among the most dangerous.

But keep the ideas coming. Tips for framing or tool suggestions. It all helps.

Stefan

[Dale Thompson]

Thanks for all the info. Even those who suggest not to use the nail gun. To be honest, as cool as it is to get a new tool, I really didn't want to spend so much money. And I didn't realize there would be so many accessories. Plus, of all the tools out there, this seems to be among the most dangerous.

But keep the ideas coming. Tips for framing or tool suggestions. It all helps.

Stefan

Stephan,
GOOD DECISION!! :) Framing nailers are GREAT but leave them for the professionals. I am FAR from a pro. I have one (it was a gift from my son)but it scares the dickens out of me every time I plug it in. GOOD LUCK with your basement!! :) There is GREAT satisfaction when you can point out to your family and friends all the the things that you did to complete it. :) :)

Dale T.

[JayStPeter]

I can't imagine having framed my basement without a nail gun. Best money I spent on the basement. Somehow I managed to get it done without shooting a nail into myself. Even managed to help my buddy frame his 30x48' garage without picking up a nail. You learn pretty quickly how to use it safely with some common sense. A table saw is 100 times more dangerous IMO.
I have a PC, but the Paslode impulse gun I used on my buddies garage was way better. Both in ease of use and results. Expensive though. Got my PC refurbed (from Amazon) for less than the others. It was the only reasonably good gun I could find under $200. Probably wouldn't buy it if I was going to use it regularly/profesionally though. BTW, if you get a PC, remove the plastic cover on the front. It'll eventually fall off anyway, and the metal underneath works much better to grip the wood when firing nails.

Jay St. Peter

[Tyler Howell]

I vote Paslode Impuse, Have three of them. Better than sliced bread!:cool:

[Terry Hatfield]

Stefan,

I debated the same nail gun issue before starting my shop/house remodel. I decided to get a gun. After shooting more than 2000 nails, I'm glad I did!!! I got the Senco package deal from Lowe's. They had the Senco Frame Pro 601 framing nailer with the Senco brad nailer combo for $259. It is a good pair of guns and I'm glad I got them. It's not listed that way on the link, but check with your local Lowes. Mine had several of these combo's in stock for the $259 price. A really good deal IMHO!!!

http://www.lowes.com/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=198121-398-1G0003N

Terry

[Stefan Antwarg]

I have to say that these Paslode nailers look tempting. I can get it used on ebay in the low $200 range. No extra accessories for me to buy except their nails and a new fuel cell if it runs out.

I know there is still the danger issue. But I figure many people have used nailers successfully with some common sense. The thing about deflection worries me though. I am smart enough to pay attention to where my fingers are and where I am aiming the nailer, but it seems this can happen even if I am careful. Is there something I should know about this?

And, to further justify the purchase, my doctor says I should not be hammering because of my bad back.

Don't you just love how the male mind works when it comes to a new tool :) I gotta have it!

Stefan

[Frank Pellow]

I have framed both with and without nail guns and prefer not to use them. Toenailing is quite easy if you drill a hole slightly smaller than the nail first.

[Bob_Hammond]

I wouldn't give up on the air nailers that easy. For hobbyist weekend use, I don't think you need that many accessories. The compressor probably already has a regulator on it, if so, you'll only need a hose and the quick connect fittings. That'll be about $20. You can manually add oil to the gun (couple of drops once a day) I have the Porter Cable guns and have been happy with them. Like somebody else said they are reasonably priced and work well. You might also be able to get one refurbed from one of their service centers if there is one nearby.

I will say that the bigger guns are a bit scary (especially when the exhaust surprises you and blows in your face :)

I love the brad nailer and use it all the time. I also have a stapler and the 15ga angle gun.

Bob

[Tyler Howell]

[QUOTE=Stefan Antwarg]I have to say that these Paslode nailers look tempting. I can get it used on ebay in the low $200 range. No extra accessories for me to buy except their nails and a new fuel cell if it runs out.

I know there is still the danger issue. But I figure many people have used nailers successfully with some common sense. The thing about deflection worries me though. I am smart enough to pay attention to where my fingers are and where I am aiming the nailer, but it seems this can happen even if I am careful. Is there something I should know about this?


Stefan, I have an extra battery as well for my unit.
If the Ebay unit isn't supplying battery and charger, that could be another 60+$$ investment. Check it out.
Just some concerns are: flying debris, nails that pass all the way through the boards and those that bounce off another nail or joist hanger. The Impulse is quite loud. Ear and eye protection is always recomended.
Good Luck!:cool:

[Jason Thaxton]

hitachi is the best

[Tyler Howell]

I have framed both with and without nail guns and prefer not to use them. Toenailing is quite easy if you drill a hole slightly smaller than the nail first.Frank, I applaud your hands on approach but I see your technique doubling if not tripling the amont of time to do it by hand. Time is money!
And you got to understand, When it gets to this stage. Stefan is all ready hooked its just a matter of what nailer is going to get him in the boat.:D

[Chris Padilla]

Stefan, if doing things the "neander" way will cause you pain in your back, then I must, too, vote for some sort of a nail gun/power tool assist. Time isn't always money and if you are doing stuff yourself, you are ahead of the game anyway.

I've seen pros toenail by toenailing each side of the stud at the same time, whack on one side, whack on the other, and repeat. The good ones always "nailed" the mark.

Good luck with your decision...I may be in this boat in a little while.

[Frank Pellow]

Regarding Tylers comment: "Frank, I applaud your hands on approach but I see your technique doubling if not tripling the amont of time to do it by hand. Time is money! " Most of us on this forum are not pros and, for us, time is not money, rather, it should be fun.

One thing I should add is that, when nailing frames by hand rather than with a gun, it is possible to use much better quality nails.

[Wes Bischel]

Stephan,

This is a little off subject, but is there a reason you are building the wall in place? (vertical) I have always built the wall frame on the floor allowing the nails to go in through the top plate or sole plate into the stud. Then when done with the frame, lift it into place. Usually I can get the height close enough that a shim is all that is needed to nail it tight to the existing structure. I have found this to be a much easier way to construct non load bearing partitions.

Also, what type of hammer are you using? If you are dead set on using 16d nails, get a 20oz framing hammer - and let it do the real "work". Or at least go to a 12d nail - plent heavy enough for a partition. When I framed out my garage, we rented nail guns for a day because code required three 16d nails per stud (2x6) and I knew my arm would be rubber before long.

Anyhow, FWIW, Wes

[Tyler Howell]

Regarding Tylers comment: "Frank, I applaud your hands on approach but I see your technique doubling if not tripling the amont of time to do it by hand. Time is money! " Most of us on this forum are not pros and, for us, time is not money, rather, it should be fun.

One thing I should add is that, when nailing frames by hand rather than with a gun, it is possible to use much better quality nails.Frank time is money for the weekender too! The longer I take the more SWMBO takes out of my allowance!!! :eek:
The longer a tedious task takes the less fun it is so ...... Although faster isn't always better. The better tool I have the better my end poduct.;)

[Stefan Antwarg]

Wes

There is no particular reason why I am not building the wall first. I had a friend who had done this before get me started and this is how he showed me. As far as nails, I don't know how it got out what kind of nails I was using. I never said :). Actually, I have been using 10d 3" nails. The hammer is just a standard DIY hammer - nothing unusually heavy.

Stefan

[Chris Padilla]

Stefan,

If you don't give us all the details from the get-go, we just make 'em up and right before eyes and all the wonderful SMC folks, it becomes fact! :D

[Dale Thompson]

Stephan,
I hope that I didn't mislead anyone on the "nailer" thing. I have three brad nailers. Two of them operate only off the compressor. They drive brads from 5/8" to 1 1/4". The third is the new PC "combo" nailer which operates off of either a compressor of its internal "mini compressor" using its own 12v battery. I REALLY like that unit. It's a bit heavy because of the built-in compressor and battery but will drive about 120 1 1/4" brads into solid Oak to a depth of 1/16" on one battery charge. The brad range with that one is 3/4" to 2". It also has an adjustable exhaust port which can be aimed AWAY from the operator. :)

My framing nailer is another matter. It's a VERY handy and powerful tool. I have used it to finish two basements. I always assemble the walls on the floor and lift them into place. My only point was that the total investment involved in setting one of these things up is a bit much for the "weekend warrior" to finish "my basement".

With ALL nailers, safety is a consideration. With the framing nailer, however, it is a much BIGGER consideration than with brad nailers. Work safely! :)

Dale T.

[Stefan Antwarg]

Just a follow up...

I bought the Paslode 900420 framing nailer off of e-bay used for $202.50. For this used model, this was the low end of the price range they have been going for. Plus, I was able to go pick it up myself so I saved on shipping. So I'm pretty happy about that. Had to buy nails, and a fuel cell - but that wasn't too bad. But it needs a major cleaning. I bought the de-greaser and started the cleaning procedures. Tons of gunk. But I forgot to buy the special Paslode oil, so I got to wait til tomorrow to finish the job.

Gun works perfectly fine. It took a bit of getting used to before I could do a toe nail into the floor joist, but I got the hang of it. This will definitely be a help - thanks for the recommendations folks!

Stefan

[Dan Mages]

Framing nailers are dangerous tools, just like a table saws. Another option is a combo pack. They can be found for $400-500. A typical kit will include the nailer, compressor, hose, oil, and a few smal accessories. It is a nice way to start if you have the cash.

Dan