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Brian Robison
01-14-2009, 8:23 AM
Can I go to my paint store and ask for Pantone colors for color matching? I also need to know what paint hold up best for granite.

Mike Null
01-14-2009, 9:55 AM
Brian

I advise you to go to an art supply store and buy a Pantone book. It'll cost around $100 but you'll have many occasions to use it.

Scott Shepherd
01-14-2009, 10:20 AM
Complicated question to some degree Brian. Short answer is "Maybe". The questions really need to be Pantone what? Pantone charts come in 2 variations, coated and uncoated, named because one is the color on uncoated paper and one is on coated paper. The same Pantone color is a completely different color on different media types. So Pantone 532C and 532U are 2 completely different colors, even though they represent the same color (boy, that sounds confusing).

So you'd have to know if you're trying to match a coated or uncoated color. Also, in my limited experience, paint stores do not understand Pantone colors. They are primarily house paint suppliers. Pantone is more an ink based color system. So talking Pantone to house painters makes their eyes glass over and they nod their head yes, when they really have no idea what you mean. Not too many homes are painted to match a Pantone supplied ink color to match a logo. If you give them your Pantone chart, they can scan it and make it close, but they are also really good and handling your chart very roughly and they will have no problems messing up your chart by getting it wet or having a drop of paint smear all over it.

So who's good at Pantone colors? Sign painters or sign supply companies. One Shot can match Pantone colors and it's superior paint.

I deal with Pantone colors a couple of times a month and it's probably one of the largest pains in my butt. I'm going to start getting it all from sign supply companies who understand it and stop trying to get it from house paint suppliers.

Bill Keehn
01-14-2009, 10:51 AM
"Fine Paints of Europe" is a US paint supplier in Vermont. They are the only paint company licensed by Pantone, Inc. to match paint in PANTONE Colors.

http://www.finepaintsofeurope.com/

Joe Pelonio
01-14-2009, 11:11 AM
I often take my pantone book to the paint store, and first try to match with their paint chips. If I find something close I might buy it and add in another color to mix it myself. Once in a while I get lucky and find a real close match.

Otherwise, I've had them scan the pantone color and mix it with their machine. It seems to come out better if they scan the uncoated pantone chips.

Jack Harper
01-14-2009, 11:45 AM
Just remember that if you need to stay real accurate, you have to replace your Panatone books every 6 months to a year, I forget which. This is due to possible color fading. Which brings me to my second if not obvious recommendation, store you books in a dark clean location

Gary Hair
01-14-2009, 11:56 AM
I also need to know what paint hold up best for granite.

Lithichrome is the only paint product that will hold up on granite if it is going to be outside. Other paints will work fine for a few years, but Lithichrome is meant to last for decades - it's what virtually all monument makers use and there's a reason for that.

As for matching pantone, not likely with Lithichrome, they are many colors available but nothing aligned with the pms colors.

Gary

Joe Pelonio
01-14-2009, 12:28 PM
On the sign (vinyl) side of the business I spend a lot of time explaining to people that pantone is a process for mixing standard ink colors for printed material, and that there are very few vinyl and paint colors that match them.

Most of the time they will go with something close, but I have had to screen print ink onto vinyl to cut lettering/logos to match. Usually quoting the additional cost will make them more cooperative. With paint, if they cannot provide a manufacturer color number or name, any color matching adds a charge to the job, minimum $25. Corel and other programs are pantone capable so large format printing does allow for color matching but that ends up costing a good amount more than cut vinyl on most jobs.

Bill Cunningham
01-15-2009, 9:44 PM
One thing I have noticed, is some pantone colours are 'spot' colours ONLY.. Meaning the colour is supplied mixed, because some simply can not be rendered in CMYK or screen RGB.. I had a customer request a particular shade that she loved, it was one of those colours that can't be rendered in RGB or CMYK process and when it is, it looked like her favourite shade of green. But, in reality the actual spot colour is a pretty sky blue.. Needless to say, she was quite surprised when she received her finished job, particularly when she firmly specified 'in print' that she wanted 'that' particular pantone number for her main colour.. Because she was so firm in her choice, we assumed she knew what the colour looked like, but unfortunatly, she had only seen it on her monitor!

Bill Keehn
01-16-2009, 9:40 AM
Pantone uses CMYK if I recall. Generally, isn't paint tinting done with RYB? As far as I know, "Fine Paints of Europe" are the only ones who use CMYK for their paint tinting. That said, even they have a disclaimer saying some Pantone colors may be the closest approximation.

Brian Robison
01-16-2009, 9:50 AM
I borrowed a Pantone chart from my local sign guy. Looks like I'll be able to get one of the colors mixed at the local house paint place. The other sample I'll need to try automotive because of the metallic color. The good news is that the project will be inside instead of outside.

Thomas Bank
01-16-2009, 10:15 AM
One thing I have noticed, is some pantone colours are 'spot' colours ONLY. [snip] Because she was so firm in her choice, we assumed she knew what the colour looked like, but unfortunatly, she had only seen it on her monitor!

That can be more of an issue with not having the monitor properly calibrated. If you're doing color critical work, you really need to invest in something like this - http://spyder.datacolor.com/product-mc.php

That will calibrate your monitor to display colors correctly and it does make quite a difference. Also quite useful to get two (or more) monitors to display the same. They also have a suite that includes a calibration unit for your printers so that what you see on your screen actually comes out the same on your printer.

Doug Griffith
01-16-2009, 10:16 AM
Pantone uses CMYK if I recall. Generally, isn't paint tinting done with RYB? As far as I know, "Fine Paints of Europe" are the only ones who use CMYK for their paint tinting. That said, even they have a disclaimer saying some Pantone colors may be the closest approximation.

Thanks for the "Fine Paints of Europe" link. Interesting.

Pantone does not use CMYK. Life would be so much easier if they did but their gamut would also be restricted by the color space. They provide CMYK formulas to represent the colors but it is just a close approximation and not all colors can be produced.

Cheers,
Doug

Mike Null
01-16-2009, 10:43 AM
My Pantone book shows solid (rgb) and cmyk charts. The cmyk chart tends to be duller and is designated by a PC (process coated)after the number.

Doug Griffith
01-16-2009, 11:16 AM
My Pantone book shows solid (rgb) and cmyk charts. The cmyk chart tends to be duller and is designated by a PC (process coated)after the number.

I also have a Pantone Color Formula Guide for ink mixing. It is probably the most accurate because of the larger gamut of inks. ie. there are 3 different reds (warm red, rubine red, and rhodamine red) used for mixing opposed to a single magenta or "red".

Bill Cunningham
01-17-2009, 8:45 PM
My Pantone book shows solid (rgb) and cmyk charts. The cmyk chart tends to be duller and is designated by a PC (process coated)after the number.

Hi Mike.. The PC means 'Process Colour', In other words, it's the 'approximated' colour to the pantone colour that can be generated by mixing CMYK on a 4 colour press.. This is why you will generally see the disclaimer that process colours may not be a exact match to a pantone specification.. Some colours simply can't be made from RGB(screen) or CMYK (Cyan Magenta, Yellow & Black) no matter how calibrated your monitor is.. If a exact match is needed, a pantone mix is a must. If your running it on a 4 colour press, then a press proof should be run for comparison to the real colours on either coated or uncoated stock as required..

Mike Null
01-18-2009, 6:33 AM
Bill
I agree with your description but in this case PC means process coated.
The book is Pantone color bridge coated.

http://pantone.com/pages/products/product.aspx?pid=849&ca=1

Bill Cunningham
01-18-2009, 10:29 PM
Bill
I agree with your description but in this case PC means process coated.
The book is Pantone color bridge coated.

http://pantone.com/pages/products/product.aspx?pid=849&ca=1

Well isn't that a neat idea.. Something to show you what to expect doing process colours on coated.. If I did more process stuff, I would buy one just to give customers a heads up when seeking the difficult, if not impossible that they usually expect of you. :)