Best wood for *functioning/live* sliding dovetail

[Tom Overthere]

I'd like to make a functioning/sliding sliding dovetail. Not one that gets glued up, but one that remains free to slide, as a drawer slide does.

I want to form the interlocking features on the edge of 3/4" material. I hope to create a tight fit, but am concerned about expansion & contraction impeding the ability to slide.

Can anybody suggest the best material option for long wear and minimal expansion/contraction due to temp/humidity changes?

I'm thinking maybe...nylon...? :D

How about hard maple?

[Ray Klear]

I mostly lurk around here. But I was taught by an old man years ago that what you want is two different woods. For some reason it reduces the wear. Maple and Red Oak work well together. The Red Oak holds a little Johnsons paste wax well and you will be surprised how easily it slides. Worked well for me the last 30 years

RK

[Doug Shepard]

There was a guy on the Knots forum using sliding DTs to make full extension drawer slides and swore by walnut as the best slidiing. I think I' recall reading that lignum vitae used to get used a lot for wooden moving parts due to some natural oils in the wood. As far as stability, I've read that mesquite has practically no movement once it's been dried but I dont know how it would be for sliding parts.

[Sean Rainaldi]

My grandma and grandpa used to use beeswax to lubricate the drawers of their antique furniture. I bet it would also work great for sliding dovetail joints.

[Joe Scharle]

I use walnut for slides, mainly because I've got so much scrap pieces. Once you get the feathers off with steel wool and a little wax the slides stay free for a long time. However, a thin edge on walnut is brittle and prone to break off.
But poplar works well too. This ellipse compass is 8-10 years old and will even spin.

[http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/data/195/DoNothingToy001.jpg

[Rick Gooden]

I've had success with hard maple and beeswax.

[Tom Esh]

For a tight precision fit that still slides easily, bamboo and lignum vitae come to mind. For those not old enough to remember, those materials were used in the best wooden slide rules. :D

[Tom Overthere]

I mostly lurk around here...what you want is two different woods. For some reason it reduces the wear...Red Oak holds a little Johnsons paste wax well and you will be surprised how easily it slides. Worked well for me the last 30 years...RKThanks, Ray. I'll see if I can research the idea of using two different woods more. I appreciate your advice and am glad you're lurking here. I mostly lurk too, except when I pop my head up and ask obtuse questions...:D

[Tom Overthere]

There was a guy on the Knots forum using sliding DTs to make full extension drawer slides and swore by walnut as the best slidiing. I think I' recall reading that lignum vitae used to get used a lot for wooden moving parts due to some natural oils in the wood. As far as stability, I've read that mesquite has practically no movement once it's been dried but I dont know how it would be for sliding parts.Thanks, Doug. Isn't KNOTS related to Taunton Press publications? If so, do you have to buy a membership to gain access to that forum.?

I'll research walnut and lignum vitae for slideing DTs. Either way, it ain't gonna be a "cheap" method.

[Tom Overthere]

I use walnut for slides, mainly because I've got so much scrap pieces. Once you get the feathers off with steel wool and a little wax the slides stay free for a long time. However, a thin edge on walnut is brittle and prone to break off.
But poplar works well too. This ellipse compass is 8-10 years old and will even spin.Another suggestion of walnut, with a steel wool massage, then wax.

I agree that such a narrow joint (along a 3/4" edge) will likely be brittle no matter what I use, but I want to try it anyway.

PM sent to you regarding your fine ellipse compass.

Thanks, Joe

[Tom Overthere]

I've had success with hard maple and beeswax.MAPLE is what I expected to read as the number-one choice here.
The question is...where am I gonna find BEEswax.
:eek: Got no more bees!!!

Thanks, Rick

[Tom Overthere]

For a tight precision fit that still slides easily, bamboo and lignum vitae come to mind. For those not old enough to remember, those materials were used in the best wooden slide rules. :D Tom ==
I remember them, but can't claim to have actually ever used them...:D

Are you suggesting the use of bamboo and lignum vitae together, as Ray suggested the use of red oak as one side of the joint, in conjunction with maple as the other side?

Or are you saying, "Use either one or the other species"? Thanks.

[Tom Esh]

Tom ==
I remember them, but can't claim to have actually ever used them...:D

Are you suggesting the use of bamboo and lignum vitae together...

No, one or the other. I don't recall ever seeing them used in combination, but I am old enough to have used one.:D Some of those rules were beautiful. My father had one that was ivory clad bamboo. Probably set him back a couple weeks pay.

[Scott Rollins]

I use this for a lubricant instead of wax:
http://www.woodcraft.com/images/products/124948.jpg

[Doug Shepard]

Thanks, Doug. Isn't KNOTS related to Taunton Press publications? If so, do you have to buy a membership to gain access to that forum.?
...

The Knots forum part is free but there are other portions of Taunton's site that are fee-based, If you already are a FWW subscriber the fee is a lot less though.

[Tom Overthere]

I use this for a lubricant instead of wax: SLIP IT PhotoOooooooooooo! Never heard of that! Thanks, Scott!

[Tom Overthere]

The Knots forum part is free but there are other portions of Taunton's site that are fee-based, If you already are a FWW subscriber the fee is a lot less though. Thanks, Doug. I'll mosey on over when I get a chance.

[Alan Schaffter]

I use oak (white and red) for the legs with mating dovetails on my adjustable height assembly table.

http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/data/500/medium/P5080003.JPG

[Tom Overthere]

I use oak (white and red) for the legs with mating dovetails on my adjustable height assembly table.

[ AMAZING ASSEMBLY TABLE PHOTO ]

HOLY MACKERAL, Alan!

I spent several evenings last week reading online about various Torsion Box assembly-table designs. In each case, the torsion box table was set atop a large, monolithic storage cabinet - which provides lots of needed storage, but allows no HEIGHT ADJUSTMENT. Seeing your photo made me laugh right out loud! Not because it's funny, but because it's so doggone CLEVER.

Are you willing to give details regarding the dimensions of the dovetails and the adjustment racks? And also, how you attached the legs to the torsion box table top (assuming it IS a torsion box construction...?)

This is an amazing forum. Last week I asked a question re. dovetail jigs, but haven't found time to go back and see all the amazing replies there. Lack of time - and also I'm afraid the amazingly creative replies will open up far too many new directions for me to research/comprehend/afford. My head is spinning...:D

[M. A. Espinoza]

I use oak (white and red) for the legs with mating dovetails on my adjustable height assembly table.

http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/data/500/medium/P5080003.JPG

Not top hijack the thread but any details on your adjustable legs? I think I could use that idea.

[Larry Edgerton]

I made some compound slides about thirty years ago out of ash. I made the cabinet to hold wrenches for my dad, and each drawer has to have at least 100#'s of iron in it, and they still work with one finger after all this time. I was kind of hoping they would wear out as I am not that proud of that cabinet, it was my first project when I bought my first table saw. I used stick graphite as a lube, but that would be ugly. In other cases I have used Topcote, and buffed it off so it does not show, works well and is easily repeatable as needed.

I don't like maple in this instance as it is a little less stable, but it does have a nice tight grain.

What are you making?

[Alan Schaffter]

HOLY MACKERAL, Alan!

I spent several evenings last week reading online about various Torsion Box assembly-table designs. In each case, the torsion box table was set atop a large, monolithic storage cabinet - which provides lots of needed storage, but allows no HEIGHT ADJUSTMENT. Seeing your photo made me laugh right out loud! Not because it's funny, but because it's so doggone CLEVER.

Are you willing to give details regarding the dimensions of the dovetails and the adjustment racks? And also, how you attached the legs to the torsion box table top (assuming it IS a torsion box construction...?)

This is an amazing forum. Last week I asked a question re. dovetail jigs, but haven't found time to go back and see all the amazing replies there. Lack of time - and also I'm afraid the amazingly creative replies will open up far too many new directions for me to research/comprehend/afford. My head is spinning...:D


Not top hijack the thread but any details on your adjustable legs? I think I could use that idea.

First, table manufacturers used sliding dovetails all the time to support expanding tables leaves or fold-downs.

Here is a closeup shot of the leg dovetails on my assembly table:

http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/data/500/medium/P4260028.JPG

Sorry to hijack the thread, but . .

Now about my assembly table. Yes, it is a torsion box, and I'll put a link to my NCWW posts about it which have a lot of pics and info, but I don't want to give out too much, because I sold an article about it to a WW mag which I am just finishing. Actually, as of now, it is slated to be two companion articles in the same issue, one about my adjustable legs, the other about torsion box engineering and how to build one like this, more easily and quickly than the David Mark/Wood Whisperer table. The article(s) should be out by summer.

Link to threads about it at NCWW.

Construction (http://www.ncwoodworker.net/forums/f29/assembly-table-w-pics-2980)

Finishing (http://www.ncwoodworker.net/forums/f29/assembly-table-done-w-pics-3063/)

Though my original design is still working great, for the article I made some changes and improvements and developed a few techniques that simplify construction of the table and the legs/mechanism. At the request of my editor (who hasn't seen the table) I also included a way to add simple diagonal bracing if desired by the builder (I haven't needed it) .

[Tom Overthere]

Well, Alan, that's about as good as it gets. :D

I visited the NCWW links you provided, and fell over. In my online wanderings, I've stumbled into that site a number of times, but always figured I'd be persona non grata in that I live elsewhere. The fact is though, I was born in Fayetteville and might try to see if my Tar Heel origins are still worth over anything at NCWW :D

QUESTION: What tool did you use to cut those big dove tails on the legs? Leigh, Omni, etc?

Thanks a LOT for sharing your creativity and engineering talent with me and everyone here. And good luck with the article!

[Tom Overthere]

I made some compound slides about thirty years ago out of ASH. I made the cabinet to hold wrenches for my dad, and each drawer has to have at least 100#'s of iron in it, and they still work with one finger after all this time. ...I used stick graphite as a lube, but that would be ugly. In other cases I have used Topcote, and buffed it off so it does not show, works well and is easily repeatable.

I don't like maple in this instance as it is a little less stable, but it does have a nice tight grain.

What are you making?Hey, Larry.
Thanks for the insights. I highlighted the specifics (not to disregard the rest of your comments) and am glad to read of your success with ash. Compound slides holding 100 lbs for thirty years is a real testiment to the suitability of the material (and the skill of the maker ;)). I'll look further into ash vs maple (vs oak vs lignum vitea). As for what I'm making, that'd be "nuthin" yet. Just scribbling at the drawing board, designing a moveable top for an end table.

[Alan Schaffter]

Well, Alan, that's about as good as it gets. :D

I visited the NCWW links you provided, and fell over. In my online wanderings, I've stumbled into that site a number of times, but always figured I'd be persona non grata in that I live elsewhere. The fact is though, I was born in Fayetteville and might try to see if my Tar Heel origins are still worth over anything at NCWW :D

QUESTION: What tool did you use to cut those big dove tails on the legs? Leigh, Omni, etc?

Thanks a LOT for sharing your creativity and engineering talent with me and everyone here. And good luck with the article!

NCWW is a great site- really aimed at NC folks but others allowed to join on individual basis. I believe viewing is open to anyone.

I used a dado blade to remove the waste, then ran the legs across my router table using an 8 deg DT bit from my Leigh set to cut the profiles- it was actually pretty easy. I cut all the sockets first, then fit each tail to its own socket in case there were any differences in leg size that would affect the tail size.

Thanks.

[Tom Overthere]

Thanks, Alan. Tis a Thing o' Beauty and an engineering feat.

In response to your generous contribution, maybe we can turn this thread into a STONE SOUP of Assembly Table Ideas.

I intend to build a torsion box according to your method (didn't like the idea of toenailing multiple short lengths of 1/2" MDF). Yours is a quicker/better construction process and, I'm pretty sure, lends superior strength/rigidity.

I'll add this ingredient (every healthy soup has "greens" in it): A removeable pair of fences - one for the short side(s) and one for the long side(s) of table - to create a reliable 90-degree corner to assist in assembling square frames of all types.

Multiple T-nuts can be set in the table's wood side rails, and the fences can be installed removed as needed - attached to any side as needed. When not in use, store 'em up in the rafters or behind your cross-cut fence (don't stand them in a corner as they might bow). You could also mount a couple of T-nuts on the wall, and just hang them there, using one of the knobs...

SEE IMAGE BELOW: (if image doesn't appear, try hitting your browser's Refresh button or keyboard F5)

http://www.tomburgessdesign.com/forums/wood/t-box_fences.gif

And fellas, this is just the tip o' the iceberg. A recent This Old House episode showed a gliding-sled assembly table system BensonWood whipped up for assembling pre-built interior window casings. I recorded the show and sketched out the design. Parts of it were overkill (sez me) so I intend to "boil it down to basics" and implement it along with these "square corner" fences - added to Alan's outstanding torsion box table. Should be GREAT if I can pull it all together...

STONE SOUP NEEDS LOTS OF INGREDIENTS.
WHO ELSE WILL TOSS IN A ROCK OR TWO?