Jointer Cut Quality

[Jonathan Spool]

I am considering retiring my old Craftsman 6" jointer, and moving up to a good quality 8" to 12" jointer. While there are many reviews out there that deal with comparing the controls, table mechanisms, alignment, and flatness of different machines, I cannot locate a good review that compares the end results beyond some mention of having tearout or not.
For instance, some companies will tout that their helical cutter is at such an angle that it shears the wood better than other companies so called helical head, resulting in a smoother cut.
Are some helical heads better thatn others, not mathematically, but in end result? Do helical heads cut smoother than spiral heads?
Some jointers are twice the price of others. Is the finished product result from these better? I should mention that my shop is non commercial, and the machinery is not in constant use, so I don't require industrial longivity, but want great results!
Jonathan

[Anthony Whitesell]

You need to buy (or atleast peruse at the newsstand) the latest Wood magazine. They just did a review of 6" jointers and cutterheads. Although the reviews of the machines will vaguely apply, the information you looking for on the cutterhead vs. cut quality is all spelled out.

[Frank Drew]

Jonathan,

If I had to do it all over again I'm sure I'd consider one of the new-style cutterheads, but I did tons of work on an older 3-knife 12" Northfield and was always satisfied with the cut quality as long as the knives were sharp and precisely adjusted. That last part, the precise adjustment, was a bit of a chore on that machine since there were no raising screws under the knives and Northfield didn't make a knife-setting jig that I was aware of.

The cut, after all, only has to be good enough to make a glue joint that disappears, and I found that taking light cuts on difficult woods controlled chipping or tearout. For face jointing the cut quality really doesn't matter since it's not a finish cut.

[Jude Tuliszewski]

A second on the Wood mag. It is issue #189 March 2009.

[Joe Jensen]

I am considering retiring my old Craftsman 6" jointer, and moving up to a good quality 8" to 12" jointer. While there are many reviews out there that deal with comparing the controls, table mechanisms, alignment, and flatness of different machines, I cannot locate a good review that compares the end results beyond some mention of having tearout or not.
For instance, some companies will tout that their helical cutter is at such an angle that it shears the wood better than other companies so called helical head, resulting in a smoother cut.
Are some helical heads better thatn others, not mathematically, but in end result? Do helical heads cut smoother than spiral heads?
Some jointers are twice the price of others. Is the finished product result from these better? I should mention that my shop is non commercial, and the machinery is not in constant use, so I don't require industrial longivity, but want great results!
Jonathan

There are some other considerations. How much are you able to spend, and are you open you buying used.

Here is a post I made on a similar thread about a week ago regarding my experience.
I have 30 years of serious hobby experience. I had a PM60 jointer and a 12" PM100 planer with straight knives for 17 years. I am a fanatic for setting knives and tuning my tools. I was able to get the planer knives within a +/- .0005" meaning all three knives cut within a .001" window. That would take me about 4 hours with a dial indicator. Magnaset and other gadgets wouldn't even get close as the knife lock screws would move the area of the knife where they tighten by anwhere from .000" to .003" each time I tightened. With the planer knives fresh from a professional sharpening shop, and adjusted as I discussed above, I could get amazing resultes on straight grain for a few hundred board feet. I now have a Byrd head in the planer and the cut is not quite as good as the fresh knives, but 2 years later, the cut is better than after a few hundred feet on the fresh knives. Based on my experience with the $1000 planer head, I upgraded from a Tersa head in the PM60 jointer to a Byrd head. I've since sold the PM60 and I bought a 12" SCMI jointer. In the renovation of the SCMI, I put in another expensive Byrd head.

One of the concerns folks have with the Byrd heads is the scalloping of the surface. There is scalloping. But, if you take a board straight off a planer with well adjusted knives, you can't go straight to finish there either. At least with my planer, there were very small (maybe 1/32" spaced knife marks) from the straight knives. The Byrd leaves different marks, but no more difficult to handle than the knife marks from the old planer. I don't think there is a powered jointer or planer that you can go from machine to finish.

In my experience here are the benefits
1) No more tearout
2) longer life (I am getting maybe 10X the life, not sure as I don't have to rotate cutters yet or any time soon as far as I can see. Also, I get 4 sets of edges on the carbide inserts.
3) No more adjusting knives. Even though I'm an engineer and I enjoy working on my tools, I was DONE with setting knives.
4) Quiet

The only downside I see in real world use is the up front cost.

I am thrilled, but as they say, you have to pay to play.

One last observation. The scallops on the planer were less than the PM60 jointer. The new SCMI jointer has nearly invisible scallops. I wonder if the curved geometry is optimized for larger dia cutterheads. The PM60 cutterhead was about 2.5" in dia. The PM100 planer is around 3", and the SCMI is almost 4". I'd like to hear from some users of the new Byrd heads on the lunch box planers.

[Anthony Whitesell]

I recently purchased the Grizzly G0490 with straight head. I probably should have spent the extra $$$ on the carbide insert head to cut down on replacement costs though.

I have recently had the opportunity to work with a carbide insert head jointer and didn't find it to be different than the straight blade. A definate pro-and-con situation.

Carbide inserts:
Pro:
-Each cutter insert is four cutters-in-one so you purchase 3 extra sets of knives when you first get the head.
-Inserts can be replaced individually

Con:
-More upfront cost
-May leave 'lines' on the board in between the inserts

Straight blades:
Pro:
-Cheaper up front costs
-No lines left on the board

Con:
-Knives may be more difficult to set when replacing over the inserts

Neutral between types:
-A row of cutter inserts are more expensive than an individual knife, but you are getting 4 knives per row of inserts opposed to one individual knife.
-I had scalloping on both cutter heads. It felt like I could run the board through faster on the carbide insert over my straight blade. But if I slowed down the feed rate (how fast I fed the board) I could come out without scalloping.

Supposed advantage to the insert cutters/cutterhead is they minimize tear out on figured wood. I didn't have and haven't had the opportunity to work with any figured woods, so I will leave that to the marketing people and those with practical experience.

[Rod Sheridan]

I own a Hammer A3 31 combination jointer/planer.

It is the 310mm version (12 inch) with straight knives.

The cutterhead geometry yields a great finish on figured woods, without the expense of a carbide insert cutterhead.

The knives do not require adjustment when you change them, and the process for all three knives is 5 minutes or less.

The double sided knives are about the same cost as the grinding was for my General planer and jointer was for two grindings.

I'd go with the Euro combination machine as a first choice.

Regards, Rod.

[Wilbur Pan]

You could take a smoothing plane to your board after your jointer, and then you won't have to worry about jointer marks anymore. ;)

[glenn bradley]

The spiral on my G0490X is superior to my cheap-o knife machine but that's not saying much. Most reviews that I read while trying to make my decision stated that knives did every bit as good as spirals if sharp and properly set up. I went with the inserts for the same reason I went with p-beds; I never want to have to struggle with setup again.

I really like the carbide insert head. There are no lines as the inserts overlap in their pattern. If I move the material extremely fast over the cutter-head I can get some scalloping. My knifed machine left scallops too if fed too fast; it is just a geometric fact. Feed speed can minimize this on either type of machine but, one or two swipes with a hand sanding block and they're gone if they appear.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

are some better than others?
Yes you really do get what you pay for.

[Thomas S Stockton]

I have a 12" Griggio with a tersa head and I get excellent results and don't think a spiral head would be worth the cost to replace it. The knives can be changed in about 2 minutes and the set I put on a year ago are still sharp in a one man furniture workshop. I think the 2 most important things that go into reducing tear out are sharp knives and cutterhead geometry, modern cutterheads like the tersa really minimize it. One of the reason the spiralheads teraout less is that the knives or inserts are taking a lot of little cuts instead of one long one.
Are spiralheads worth it? Probably but you should do your homework on them and make as informed a decision as you can. I would try to find people who use them day in and day out as they will have more time on their machines and might have more info on the good and the bad
Tom

[Tom Leasure]

Jonathan,
I just retired my 6" Craftsman jointer last night when I fired up my new Grizzly 12" jointer ( with spirial head )
The head is new & sharp & the cut is real smooth - not quite ready to finish but a mild going over with 120 grit & it would be. The Craftsman still cuts great ( keep the knives sharp & adjusted - unit is 25 years old ) but it was time to upgrade.
The head in the new jointer is the Grizzly head not the Byrd one. I have the Byrd in my thickness planer. I did run several boards thru both & compared the cut - I think the Byrd "might" be a slight bit smoother but I can't tell by mt fingers.
Personally I wouldn never purchase another planer or jointer without a sprial cutter head. It is a good investment.

Tom

[Larry Edgerton]

I have a Tersa and a conventional head with Esta knives, and I say if you need a better cut than either of those you had better get out a hand plane.

2 minutes to change the Tersa, and less than ten to change the conventional with Esta knives. Can't see much improvement there.

The carbide inserts are made of, thats right, carbide. So they will never be as sharp as steel, and thats just the way that cookie crumbles. They don't stay sharp, they just stay mediocre for a long time.:)

Anything you buy will make you realize what a boat anchor that Sears is. I just saw a nice used DJ20 go for $800 in an auction. I would buy a jointer with the parallel system, the rapid change capability saves a lot of wood/passes, at least for me.

There are a lot of choices out there........

[Jonathan Spool]

Thanks for lots of info!
Which brands utilize the Tersa heads?

[Joe Jensen]

Thanks for lots of info!
Which brands utilize the Tersa heads?

I think you have to go European to get Tersa heads on a stock machine. I had a Tersa style (Terminus) cutterhead on my PM60 jointer first. Then I put a Byrd in the planer. Once I experienced the Byrd, I replaced the Tersa style in the jointer with a Byrd. YMMV