Computer, internet, network question

[Don Farr]

I run a small business that I have had for over twenty years. Well, In this economy it is not doing well. I have cut back every way I can think of except the phone. We currently have five lines, Fax, credit card terminal and a T1 connection to the internet. Well over $500.00 bucks a month. With business the way it is we could get by with one phone line, fax and DSL. I have a server and 5 work stations but only two of the work stations are being used at this time.
Now for my question. The phone company told me today that DSL would not support a server and two work stations and I MUST have the T1 connection.
I am sure that there are small offices out there that get by with DSL. We must continue to down size or bite the bullet. How about DSL to the server and a WYE-FI connection or something. There must be a way to lower my bill.
Thanks for your input.

[Ralph Wiggum]

Are you hosting a web site on your server? It all depends on how much bandwith you need. Yes there are many businesses running on just DSL service for internet access.

[Samuel Brooks]

You can run lots of stuff from DSL connection if it's available in your area also do not overlook Cable Service. I have apartment communities that run 3-5 PC's that all share a single DSL connection with speeds like 768Kb Down and 128Kb up. If you run your a local e-mail server think about oursoucing some of this to google mail and hosting your web site with another company. You will get better uptime for your site and at the same time as reducing your bandwidth needs. Again find a local ISP that has some history in your area and see what they have to offer.

If you switch to DSL and host your own web / email you will need to get a Fixed IP address otherwise DHCP for IP is fine for outbound surfing.

Depending on what you need in most cases a T1 is way overkill for a small office when a $59 DSL line will do just fine.

For Faxing you can convert your fax number to a Fax to E-mail service and then have all of your inbound faxes forwarded to E-Mail. You can still use your fax machine to send faxes with it connect to any phone line and this will elimate a phone line. Again check with a local ISP to see if they can port your fax number to a fax over IP service for receiving faxes.

Also you can bundle your Voice across your Internet connection and save even more while pickup lots of flexability.

Sounds to me like your local phone company is only helping themselves and not you.

Go shopping.

[Jason Beam]

They might have told you that because they don't allow servers on their networks. DSL will do just fine for a 2-3 workstation network that isn't beating on the bandwidth threshold all the time (streaming audio, video, giant file transfers, enormous emails, etc). For a regular office that sends the occasional email, DSL (1.5m down, 384k up) would work fine. What you don't normally get with DSL are static IP addresses or the permission to host services on that line like web sites, email, etc.

There ARE providers out there that don't have such restrictions. And these are just policy restrictions by the provider, there's no technical reason you can't run a server to host email on any connection at all. Capacity and static addressing are really the only limiting factors. Reliability to some extent, depending on what you host.

I run my own mail, web, dns, ftp, etc server at home. I handle about 1500 emails a day and that's really about it. My web and ftp services are really only used by my own personal whims.

A provider that will let you do what I'm doing would be Speakeasy. That's who I use - for around $70/mo it's plenty for my needs. I would consider it entry-level for a small business in terms of reliability (it goes down maybe twice a month for a couple minutes). They have ZERO restrictions on what servers you can host (all ports are open) and they give me one static IP (i used to have two, but don't need 'em both).

I'm not affiliated, just a big fan of the level of service I've had for 7 years now. :)

[Don Farr]

Thanks, Ralph, No I do not host my own website or email. I pay for that with another company. That's cheap per year.
Sam, I checked with cable and they are saying it would not be economical for them to run cable to me.

[Charles Saunders]

Don, I recently sponsored a project to replace T1 communications circuits in 500 restaurants with DSL or cable. The major uses were to support the manager's communications to corporate headquarters and the outside world as well as credit card authorization / settlement. The base cost for commercial DSL from the phone company was generally between $40-70 / month depending upon the service available and the area of the country. With commercial DSL you usually can get static IP addresses if needed, but it doesn't sound like you need it. The users in the facilities were pleased with the performance following the change-over and the savings were up to $350 / month.

Regarding your ordinary phone lines (POTS), you might look into whether it's permissible to piggyback voice or FAX service on your security and fire alarm circuits and eliminate a line or two, if that applies. Since your business phone lines are usually about $40 / month each little bit counts.

[Neal Clayton]

I run a small business that I have had for over twenty years. Well, In this economy it is not doing well. I have cut back every way I can think of except the phone. We currently have five lines, Fax, credit card terminal and a T1 connection to the internet. Well over $500.00 bucks a month. With business the way it is we could get by with one phone line, fax and DSL. I have a server and 5 work stations but only two of the work stations are being used at this time.
Now for my question. The phone company told me today that DSL would not support a server and two work stations and I MUST have the T1 connection.
I am sure that there are small offices out there that get by with DSL. We must continue to down size or bite the bullet. How about DSL to the server and a WYE-FI connection or something. There must be a way to lower my bill.
Thanks for your input.

serving what to the outside on the server?

first off, a T1 is only 1.5mbits synchronous, which is actually lesser than alot of people's home cable net connection. of course the telco will tell you you must have it, you're paying a lot for an outdated technology ;).

even if you need a VPN connection to the server from home, a 1 meg SDSL line would be enough for lots of things.

[Jim Becker]

My 3mb DSL line (768kbs up) costs $31.55 per month including taxes from Verizon. It currently supports four computers plus a VPN enabled IP phone (my office is at home) and my iPhone with no problem. Neil is correct that a T1 is only 1.5mbs, although there is certainly a difference in service levels from a consumer DSL or cable service as well as the synchronous bandwidth arrangement.

Honestly, even large enterprises have gotten away from things like T1 lines these days for many of their branch operations. I see no reason why you couldn't be well served by DSL (as long as you are able to get it at your location based on wire length from the CO), especially since you say you're not running a server for outside access on-prem. I agree with the others that you should look at other providers' offerings, such as Covad.com in addition to contacting your current provider (I'm assuming ATT, former SBC?) and hopefully talking to someone more accomodating.

[Prashun Patel]

I manage the IT for my own company. Our connection is cable. We run about 10 workstations. Our email is externally hosted, so we're hitting our ISP fairly regularly. Works great.

My provider makes a distinction between residential and business accounts. The res accounts are about $30-45/mo. The business accounts start at $100/mo. The business accounts come with slightly bigger bandwidth and a static IP address (not that we really need that IP address).

Who's yr DSL provider?

[Randal Stevenson]

Don, exactly what do you use your network connection for? (that can get you more targeted answers)

Do you have a router/NAT (Network address translation) box hooked to it? (aka what people at home think are firewalls)

They may have said that as they heard both server, and multiple pc's (they want to charge PER ip address and they don't allow "servers" on their network)

I have cable (DSL was something ending like 70' away from my house), and have it hooked to a NAT box, that hooks into a hub, then separates into various other networks in the house, as well as running software firewalls. If you move lots of data, bandwidth could be an issue (if you both do video editing and send it to the web as an example), but if your "server", acts as nothing more then a large hard drive, and maybe a print server, you could easily be served with some home grade merchandise (Nat and hub or just Nat).

[Don Farr]

Thanks for all of the excellent information. I will feel better informed as we call other companies for quotes.
I apologize for not giving better details about my setup. My "server" is nothing more than storage for our accounting software. Each work station is assigned certain privileges that they can access. Such as inventory, AP,AR, customer info., etc.
We do have a hub that everything plugs into, including the T1 connection.
Internet use (besides playing):( is used for research on parts and equipment, parts ordering, and emailing quotes etc. I almost never download large files but have on occasion.
Thanks again for everyones help.

[glenn bradley]

Thanks, Ralph, No I do not host my own website or email. I pay for that with another company. That's cheap per year.
Sam, I checked with cable and they are saying it would not be economical for them to run cable to me.

Sounds like you may have a geographical issue like I do. Its odd for me because I am right in the middle of suburbia. I just happen to be "just that much" too far from either of the main switch buildings for the area. AT&T did end up getting their U-verse service to me after about 3 years but, I digress . . .

At the University I support several offsite locations on single or dual T-1's. This works fine for general browsing and email of a dozen PC's. I have also had success with 2-3 PC's running as low as 384Kbps up and 1Mbps down (down being toward the PC's) over DSL. As your web services are hosted elsewhere, I would expect this to work for you based on what you have stated so far.

[Eric DeSilva]

Sounds like you have a local area network (LAN) with a bridge to a wide area network (WAN--the internet). But, your "server" sounds like it generates traffic only on the LAN, so whether it is there or not shouldn't be of any concern to the local telco.

For example, I run a LAN in my house with 3 network attached storage boxes (basically file servers) with about 8TB of storage, 3 computers, 2 printers, and 4 music front ends. That stuff all runs independent of the WAN connection and doesn't generate any traffic anywhere except my LAN. I have an internet connection that does 3mbps from the CATV company for web surfing and connecting to my company computer, and its all for less than $50 per month. I have my internet site hosted remotely on a third party host.

This is different, say, than hosting your own website on a server on your network. Visitors to the website download information off your server to the WAN, so it generates traffic on the WAN connection. That may be what the telco thinks you are doing.

[jeremy levine]

The short answer is probably yes, but you best check the level of DSL service you will get. Also since you have a T1 you are probably entitled to a bandwidth usage repot from the provider, it should go a long way in terms of desciding if DSL will be a good solution. I

[Jackie Outten]

Hey Don,

Is Cox Communications in your area?

Jackie

[Don Farr]

Hey Don,

Is Cox Communications in your area?

Jackie

Never thought about them. I know they own the local radio station that I listen to. I'll check into it. Thanks.

[dennis thompson]

Don
I don't know anything about all the technical aspects of your problem.
I'd just mention that Verizon had an ad in yesterday's Wall Street Journal that said " high speed internet plus phone for business starting as low as $59.99/month".
Don't know:
-if Verizon is in your area
-if they can satisfy your needs
but it is probably worth a phone call, number is 1-888-691-1175

Also note carefully the "as low as" part of the ad.
Dennis

[Scott Conners]

Don, for the uses you mentioned a simple business level DSL line should be plenty of bandwidth. The telcos will get all pissy if you mention the words "server", and in your case your "server" is completely internal to your business and doesn't effect them at all.

I do some tech support for a very small non-profit doing great work. When I used the word "office" once on the phone, the cable rep got very upset that they were running a "business" (3 computers in the office, email is the nearly the only web use) on a non-business account. She ended up raising thier rates by putting them on a "business" account, with NO change in actual service - same connection speed, no fixed IP etc. The town is far oversold on connections anyway, so the speeds are dismal, and basically non existent when the town is busy.

[Matt Meiser]

My employer has a DSL line for our entire corporate office. Only one person is there full time and I'd guess there are 4-5 others there on any given day (I'm rarely there since it is 600 miles from home) but the rest of about 40 of us VPN in several times a week for anything between submitting timesheets to all-day connections to database and other servers in the office.

Our email, public web site, intranet, and extranet are hosted elsewhere.

[Randal Stevenson]

Don, for the uses you mentioned a simple business level DSL line should be plenty of bandwidth. The telcos will get all pissy if you mention the words "server", and in your case your "server" is completely internal to your business and doesn't effect them at all.



Another reason for at least one Nat box, you can block the server from accessing the web. Your server (especially with financials) shouldn't be connected to it.

[Mike Henderson]

If you're hosting your own web site, remember that DSL is asymmetric - that is, the speed from the network to you is quite fast, but the speed from you to the network is fairly slow. This works fine when you're accessing the network, because you only send a small amount of data to the network and receive a lot back.

But when you're hosting, someone else is accessing your server and they expect to get a lot of data back from you. Unfortunately, that all has to go through the slow "upstream" DSL pipe, so your web server will appear to be pretty slow to people accessing your site. That's why people who host usually use a symmetric service (like T1).

If you're going to put voice over your DSL, you need to have a router that understands that certain ports are voice and prioritizes that traffic (upstream into the network). Otherwise, you can get unacceptable delays in the voice conversation.

This is all true for residential cable service, also. The upstream link is pretty slow compared to the downstream link.

Mike

[That said, if you're not hosting, a DSL link will support a bunch of computers because of the statistical nature of the access (not everyone tries to access the network at the same time).]
[This is way overkill, but back in 2000 I wrote a paper (http://members.cox.net/michael.henderson/Papers/VoADSL.pdf)that analyzed voice over ADSL.]