PDA

View Full Version : PC VS Mac looking at the big picture



Paul Brinkmeyer
01-11-2009, 12:06 PM
I really do not want to start something, but just wondering.
Most "art" seems to come from the mac world
But if you want to do something with the art you need a PC.

Lasers, embroidery software, engravers, DTG printers, Every CNC I have ever worked with, and the related support software all seems to run mostly off of PC's.

Even in the manufactoring world I left behind, all the "production" related software was aimed at the PC. (Yes, I know, most of the higher end cad systems were unix, but every unix station we had came with a pc.) We had one manager, and only one, who bucked the system and ran a Mac.

I really would like to get a Mac and learn it, but reality says just because I dislike pc's, I should not shoot myself in the foot when so much of what I do is in the pc world.

Do many actually run both? (Or only mac's?) Do you spend a lot of extra time getting things to work, and buying extra software just so you can use a mac? How is support?
Is comunication to all of the equipment easily done?

David DeCristoforo
01-11-2009, 12:16 PM
I have been "bi" for many years. I prefer Macs but "need" windoze for some things. Any Intel based Mac can also boot windoze so it is easy to have the "best of both worlds" without having to have two computers.

Jim Becker
01-11-2009, 12:34 PM
As David suggests, the current generation of Intel-based Macs can run Windows, and often better than many non-Mac platforms. Further, it can be handled either/both as a dual-boot situation or using VMs. (virtual machines) My next machine will likely be an Intel-based Mac for this reason. I have some software that I just cannot afford to re-buy for MacOS, so for the cost of a Windows license, more or less, I have have both worlds covered. I almost did this two years ago, but chickened out at the last minute...silly me. Oh, and my choice on this isn't "religious"...I just really like where Apple has taken their machines from a technology perspective and my iPhone further cemented it, too.

Paul Brinkmeyer
01-11-2009, 12:35 PM
So you can run XP or Vista direct?

Can the mac OS boot up on a standard PC now?

Greg Peterson
01-11-2009, 12:48 PM
PC and Mac have essentially converged to the point where the deciding factor should be software compatibility.

I've experienced enough 'undocumented features' (OS and software freezes) on an IMac in the past fourteen months to come to the informed opinion that neither platform outperforms the other in matters of stability.

But just to reveal my bias a bit, I'm curious as to why Mac doesn't make a two button mouse standard equipment. And while their relatively recent venture into spreadsheets (Numbers) has some nice features, it is limited enough to prevent any consideration of it being ready for prime time.

I understand the appeal of the Mac enthusiasts. It is a very nice platform. But the reality is that the differences between the two are minor.

Tim Morton
01-11-2009, 12:49 PM
The macs that have been out for the past 2 years will run both platforms at the same time. You have two options...standard out of the box you can dual boot your mac into a windows machine with the purchase of a windows license.

But the option i choose is to purchase an aftermarket program called parallels which allows you to run your PC programs for your engravers and CNC routers and the likes right from your mac desktop....quite simply the best of both worlds.

Tim Morton
01-11-2009, 12:55 PM
But just to reveal my bias a bit, I'm curious as to why Mac doesn't make a two button mouse standard equipment. And while their relatively recent venture into spreadsheets (Numbers) has some nice features, it is limited enough to prevent any consideration of it being ready for prime time.

I understand the appeal of the Mac enthusiasts. It is a very nice platform. But the reality is that the differences between the two are minor.

1. Where have you been the current mouse shipping with ALL macs is a "no" button mouse that senses your finger position on the mouse...on the left side and its a left click..on the right side and its a right click...so not only is that agument dead...the new mice ROCK!! The scroll button is even smart enough to move up/down left/right in any direction depending on where you are spinning it..a little added bonus.

2. You buy a PC and you have to by Office to get spread sheets..we can buy office for macs....so your point is what?

3. Thank goodness the differences are MAJOR between the two platforms:)

I will only limit myself to one post per mac/pc topic:p

edit: two posts

David DeCristoforo
01-11-2009, 1:10 PM
"So you can run XP or Vista direct?"

Yes. You can "dual boot" an Intel Mac so that either OSX or windoze (expee or vista only) will run "natively". Requires you to reboot the machine and select which OS you want to boot. Or you can run windoze "inside" OSX by using an emulation app like Parallels which works OK but costs more dough and there is a performance hit. But this allows you to run both systems "side by side" and to jump back and forth without rebooting.

"Can the mac OS boot up on a standard PC now?"

Nope. And you will probably never be able to. Apple has no intention of "porting" it's OS to run on anything but an Apple computer.

Robert Parrish
01-11-2009, 1:16 PM
I agree with Tim! I have been developing software for over 40 years on mainframes and the pc when they came out in 1982. Until 2 years ago I would never consider buying a Mac. I got so tired of all the problems with the Microsoft systems. Viruses, malware and errors everywhere so I decided to try an IMac and haven't looked back. It is more secure and a lot easier to use, you don't have to worry about your data as it backs up everything automatically. The IMac recognized my network and allowed me to use files on my pc's with out any problems. I can run Vista on the Mac if I need to. I now have 4 pc's that haven't been powered up in two years. I'm not sure this is a plus but my wife can now use email! One of the nice thing about the Mac is that all the apps work together seamlessly and their interfaces are consistent. And yes it comes with software that you would have to buy on a pc.

Mitchell Andrus
01-11-2009, 1:41 PM
You can go to an Apple store and take 'lessons', workshops so you can look before you leap. Of course, they only show you the successes.

Ben Rafael
01-11-2009, 1:54 PM
I agree with Robert.
I have 2 macs and have had fewer problems with them in the past 3 years than I had with any of my previous PCs in any day.
They are also not as expensive as people think. You can get a very nice one with a monitor for about $1000. And remember if you have a kid in school or you are an educator you can get a discount.

David DeCristoforo
01-11-2009, 2:14 PM
Macs tend to be less problematic for one reason. Apple has always maintained tight control over their hardware. On one hand this limits the options you have for upgrading things like the video card. On the other hand, it allows very tight integration of the hardware and the operating system. The "build quality" of Apple hardware has also been of very hight quality. If you do a price comparison between Mac and a "typical off the shelf" windoze machine, the windoze machines will always seem like a better buy. But if you compare Macs to high quality computers from "boutique" builders like Falcon NW, there is not nearly as much of a discrepancy.

Robert Parrish
01-11-2009, 2:46 PM
One other point is that the IMac is a one piece design with no fan. I'm sitting next to the pc that runs our surveillance cameras and it is extremely loud. I also bought Apple tv which allows me to watch woodworking podcast videos and movies on my large screen TV. You don't need a Mac for Apple TV though. I am planning on buying a Mac Book soon.

Greg Cuetara
01-11-2009, 3:45 PM
I have been using apple computers since the very early 80's and every few years have upgraded. I now have a new IMac and it is great because I can run all my work based PC software at without the need for multiple computer. I use Parrallels and it works very well. You can use any windoze operating system that you own or can install. Actually my IMac is about 4 times as fast as my PC in the office. All of my office documents go back and forth without any problem so that is a moot point. I do agree that there are Major differences in the way the operating system works. Microsoft does keep getting closer to the Mac look and feel with every new operating system release.

I think the major difference is that the Mac is truly plug and play whereas the PC wants to think it is. I was told this once....the difference between a Mac and PC is the same as if you were to fly somewhere. A Mac guy buys a ticket, gets on the plane, eats his meal, watches the movie and just wants to know he is going to land at his destination. The PC guy has to know how the ticket booking system works, then once he gets onto the plane he has to make sure the plane is programmed correctly to fly in the right direction...in the air he needs to make sure the right numbers are in so that the food gets served and the movie is playing and then on the way into the airport he needs to make sure the plane is talking to the ground so that he can land. The Mac guy just wants to get there and doesn't care about everything in the background to get it done because the Mac does it for him whereas the PC guy has to know how everything works because it doesn't do anything for him. This has somewhat changed in that PC's do more now but they are still lacking in the way that they talk to each other.

As far as cost goes you do need to realize that the 'lower' end Macs are equal to the very 'high' end PC's. The Macs already have high end video and sound cards. They are slick and look good. If you buy a laptop make sure you get the 3 year applecare protection plan. Well worth it. After 2 1/2 years my dvd drive konked out on me and I sent it back and without question they fixed it and sent it back to me.

Greg

Robert Parrish
01-11-2009, 4:20 PM
Good analogy Greg! Microsoft is a permission based system. That is why it drives you nut with all the questions, the Mac just does it!

Greg Peterson
01-11-2009, 5:16 PM
1. Where have you been the current mouse shipping with ALL macs is a "no" button mouse that senses your finger position on the mouse...on the left side and its a left click..on the right side and its a right click...

The IMac I've been using (roughly fourteen months now) shipped with a one button mouse.



2. You buy a PC and you have to by Office to get spread sheets..we can buy office for macs....so your point is what?

I agree that Excel is good. Have you tried using Apple's spreadsheet Numbers? Or Pages? Their productivity software suite is not ready for prime time.



3. Thank goodness the differences are MAJOR between the two platforms:)

The distinctions are narrowing. :)

Robert - The generation of IMac I am using (again, this IMac is about fourteen months old) does indeed have a fan. While not noisy, I have no problem noticing when the fan comes on.

Out of the box Apple's Safari web browser refused to allow me to connect to several websites including Apple.com. Once I downloaded and installed Firefox, all was good. According to Apple's user forum I wasn't the only user that was having problems with Safari connecting to apple.com. I'm sure it has been fixed by now, but Firefox just keeps rolling along.

$1000 for a computer these days is relatively expensive. The IMac is an elegant machine. But it is no less prone to instability than my seven year old, sub $1000, XP Pro Dell machine.

Sonny Edmonds
01-11-2009, 5:45 PM
Just as I expected, all those Apple Jacks come crawling out of the woodwork. :rolleyes:
Apple went after the schools as a means to promote their computers. IBM went after business.
The biggest users I know of today outside of schools, and that is probably questionable, is the entertainment industry. Most of those razzel-dazzel effects are from Mac platforms.
My next door neighbor makes video games for children, he's a Mac head. He happens to be out of work, too.

So to me it boils down to two questions:
Do you want business?
Or do you want to be entertained?

Being fairly proficient with my own computer creations (AKA: build my own), I've been asked to fix a few Apples in my day.
When they jam, you might as well shoot them. Because only an apple head with a paring knife can fix them.
My most recent encounter with Mac-aroni software was downloading an apple program to view a presentation done on a Mac. It worked, nice slide-show done by a fellow diver in B.C.
I finally decided to excise the damned thing from my computer so it would stop trying to update itself, and take over my PC.
Very cute! :mad:

If you want something you can work with, PC.
If you wnat something you just take to a shop and pick up when it's fixed, Mac-aroni.
The question is: Business, or Entertainment? :rolleyes:

David DeCristoforo
01-11-2009, 5:49 PM
FWIW... and IMMHO running Microsoft applications on a mac is kind of defeating the whole idea of the Mac in the first place. I have used Open Office for years and while it's true that Open Office has not been "as good" as Microsoft Office, the newest version is at least as good. Plus it does not drive you nuts with "helpful" bloat and it's always been free. Apple's "Numbers" is not up to snuff for a spreadsheet app but Pages and Keynote totally stuff Word and Power Point. Safari is a work in progress but most Mac users use Mozilla Firefox anyway.

As to stability, as a general rule, there is no general rule. It depends on the individual machine and the user more than any overall axiom. I have had Macs that would not run more than a few hours without a reboot. My current machine never gets rebooted unless some installation or update requires it.

Tim Morton
01-11-2009, 5:51 PM
and i was feeling the love up until that post:cool:

Tim Morton
01-11-2009, 5:55 PM
nope i promised only 2 posts...

Sonny Edmonds
01-11-2009, 6:07 PM
Yep, there's another one of them apple worms.
They just keep crawling out. :p

Greg Peterson
01-11-2009, 6:09 PM
no they aren't...you guys need to make commercials that actually trick people into using Vista...come to me when you have a usable operating system and then tell me its narrowing.


I work on about 7 computers every day...3 iMacs and 4 dells...trust me its NOT narrowing.:cool::cool:

I'm not a big fan of MS. I have been a vocal critic of their's for many, many years. And as for Vista, you got me on that one. I refuse to have anything to do with that OS. I don't know what MS was thinking. Surely a new user may find Vista to be friendly, but woe to anyone trying to migrate from XP or Win98. Fortunately MS will likely pull the plug on Vista sooner than later.

I agree that Linux is solid and practically bullet proof. Too bad Apple didn't develop it. They were smart to use Linux. Cheaper and better. One thing about the Mac OS I like is that you do not have to be logged in as admin to install or make changes. The Apple OS will prompt for the Admin password when that privilege is required. Windows is pretty limited in this regard. There are ways around it, but not always.

To each his own. My own experiences lead me to a conclusion that is contrary to yours, and vice versa. :)

And so it is.

David DeCristoforo
01-11-2009, 6:44 PM
"And as for Vista...I refuse to have anything to do with that OS..."

Now that I would have to agree with! W2k Was awesome. Expee was good but too "bloated". Vista reminds me of W98 Millennium Edition in that it will disappear very quickly to be replaced with Windows 7 which was announced very shortly after Vista was released. I think Vista was a huge mistake as was W98ME and it will go away very quickly. It's interesting that MS released it's worst ever OS at almost exactly the same time that Apple released it's best (10.4).

Robert Parrish
01-11-2009, 6:48 PM
The only worms I know infect pc's!

Darrin Johnson
01-11-2009, 7:00 PM
I have built my own windows PCs several times over the years, but over the past 3 years have migrated to Macs. I can run windows when the need comes up either via VMware, Parallels, or booting directly into Windows.

Linux is fun to play with too, but it requires to much tech knowledge to accomplish everything that most people want.

Bottom Line: Mac Vs Windows is a matter of preference, just like your tools that you like! I currently prefer Mac, but if another tool presents itslef, I'll use it.

dj

David DeCristoforo
01-11-2009, 7:09 PM
"I have built my own windows PCs..."

If there was one thing I miss using Macs it's the ability to assemble my own hardware configuration. Not only is if fun to "build" and "mod" your own machine, you can configure it exactly as you wish. And upgrading the hardware is an option that can keep a computer in service for many years. I have a CoolerMaster case that has had at least three completely different hardware configurations installed in it over the years. You can't really do that with a Mac.

Greg Cuetara
01-11-2009, 7:11 PM
The IMac I've been using (roughly fourteen months now) shipped with a one button mouse......$1000 for a computer these days is relatively expensive. The IMac is an elegant machine. But it is no less prone to instability than my seven year old, sub $1000, XP Pro Dell machine.

I picked up my IMac about 14 months ago and it is a 2 button mouse. It does not look like a 2 button mouse but it is. Are you sure that it isn't a 2 button mouse but you just don't know. $1,000 for a computer is not really expensive. If you really look at a top of the line pc you would expect to pay $2k or $3k. If you take an average PC and then bump it up to a 24" widescreen monitor with a boatload of built in software to do video, music etc....you would be well over the $1,000 mark.

I would also say that most of the people who have a home computer do not want any problems. Most people can't open up a PC if something goes wrong....they will call the Geek Squad or someone else to come to the house and fix it. At work our resident IT guy can break open the computer and fix it but even then since there are a thousand PC component manufacturers he can't know everything about everyone.

I believe that the new Mac operating system is based upon Unix which makes it very stable. The only reason that I have to reboot is when I have an update or install new software.

Mitchell Andrus
01-11-2009, 7:12 PM
Software allows worms, not hardware and most experts agree, MS apps are attacked by cretins because they, like most of us humans, like to get the most bang for the buck. As Apples are only a small percentage of the small computer market, they aren't worth bothering with. It's a numbers game.

<ducking for cover>
.

Scott Shepherd
01-11-2009, 7:17 PM
Coming from the Unix world, I'm always happy to see anyone incorporating that into their systems. I took college classes in Unix and the teacher was from Bell Labs where it was developed. The things I learned over 20 years ago still hold true today. There are fundamental differences in the way Linux (OSX for Mac or Unix) works versus the way Windows works. I'm having to dust off the brain cells for this, so someone with current knowledge please correct me if I misstate something, but OSX (or linux) handle processes independently, meaning when you open up a process, it's got it's own chunk of resources and it doesn't mix with others. So if something happens, you can kill that process and not screw up anything else. I've seen that in Unix many times. You have a problem with a device, you kill the process, restart it, and it works. No need to reboot. No need for anything else to crash.

However, on the PC, resources are allocated together and all intertwined. So if you have a process that needs to be killed, then it takes the whole system down, or randomly takes down other devices and makes the system unstable. That's where a lot of the blue screen of death comes from, as far as I understand.

There's just a fundamental difference in the way the two cores work.

I've heard for years that "I wouldn't consider an Apple because they just don't have any software available". I always ask "What software do you need?", and I always get "email, web browser, word processer" as an answer. When I tell them you can buy MS Office for the Mac (not running on parallels), they always resort to name calling :)

The facts are that most any business software commonly used in day to day business is available and cross compatible with Windows platforms. You lose it when you get into engineering software, but those are moving in that direction as well.

Having said all that, I don't own a Mac, so you can't call me a MacHead or accuse me of being biased because I'm not a Mac owner :p (but I will be on my next computer purchase).

Neal Clayton
01-11-2009, 8:00 PM
Macs tend to be less problematic for one reason. Apple has always maintained tight control over their hardware. On one hand this limits the options you have for upgrading things like the video card. On the other hand, it allows very tight integration of the hardware and the operating system. The "build quality" of Apple hardware has also been of very hight quality. If you do a price comparison between Mac and a "typical off the shelf" windoze machine, the windoze machines will always seem like a better buy. But if you compare Macs to high quality computers from "boutique" builders like Falcon NW, there is not nearly as much of a discrepancy.

for the same reason they are not easily serviceable by the user.

apple provides little or no documentation on the hardware, and even less of an upgrade path.

an old PC is just a motherboard, memory, and CPU away from being a new one. an old mac is a large toe stubbing door stop.

i don't think build quality is any different. intel makes the motherboards and CPUs. ATI and nVidia make the GPUs, and Mushkin makes the memory. anyone with internet access and a credit card can build the same machine with parts from their drop shipper of choice. the only difference in the two is apple has eliminated the traditional BIOS chip to prevent people from upgrading their machines on their own.

they're the equivalent of those old detroit trucks with the fuel pump inside the gas tank.

scott, if you're a unix person and buy a mac, the novelty will very quickly wear off and you'll ask yourself how you managed to get duped by the marketing machine. i've run Linux and BSD servers for years, and i found myself in the same boat after trying a mac.

put it this way: the guts of the mac mini i played with a year or so ago now reside in an AOpen minipc which i use for testing various linux apps before they go live on the two slackware servers i run, and the AOpen is by every test a superior device.

Don Bullock
01-11-2009, 10:27 PM
Paul,
I've been working with computers since the very early days Radio Shack, Pet, Commodore, just to name a few. Over the years I've tried them all and have taught courses in using computers at the university level. In today's world I much prefer my iMac to my PC by far. It's much easier to use and it rarely crashes. In my normal routine there isn't anything that I do on my PC that I couldn't do on the iMac. I have chosen, however, to put up with the PC for some software that isn't available on the Mac, including the software I use for my current website, just because I've decided not to run Windows on the iMac. I'm planning to phase out the old website and change it over to my iMac fairly soon. After that I'll have only one major application, software I use for my dog breeding, on the PC.

Mitchell Andrus
01-11-2009, 10:36 PM
1980 - TRS-80 Model I with a floppy and 48k ram and NO hard drive. Yes, 48k ram and it cost a fortune.

Those were the days.
.

David DeCristoforo
01-11-2009, 10:44 PM
"...an old mac is a large toe stubbing door stop..."

Right... Like my Mac Cube which currently functions as a music server in my shop as well as my only shop computer.

"...they're the equivalent of those old detroit trucks with the fuel pump inside the gas tank..."...."...you'll ask yourself how you managed to get duped..."

Now yer just gettin' nasty....

...which i use for testing various linux apps before they go live on the two slackware servers...

Oooo.... you be da man!

John Shuk
01-11-2009, 10:48 PM
I have an Imac and a Mac Mini and love them to death. They just work and do what I want no matter what.
I couldn't imagine going back.

Paul Brinkmeyer
01-12-2009, 11:41 AM
1980 - TRS-80 Model I with a floppy and 48k ram and NO hard drive. Yes, 48k ram and it cost a fortune.

Those were the days.
.


I started before the trs-80, but I will not go there. I use to take punch cards and later 8" floppies out to the badlands and use them for target practice.

There is a lot of information here for me to look at. (and a lot of emotions too)

Thanks.

Scott Shepherd
01-12-2009, 12:23 PM
What, no VIC-20 folks here? :) Wasn't that was it was called? From Commodore? I spent hours with that thing plugged into the tv as a monitor writing simple programs in BASIC.

Ahhh....the gold old days :)

Jim Becker
01-12-2009, 12:56 PM
My first microcomputer experience was with a Commodore PET...the one with the "non standard" keyboard and the cassette player built in. :)

Greg Peterson
01-12-2009, 1:02 PM
I had a Vic-20. Even had the dot matrix color printer and 2400 baud modem. Smoking performance!

Mitchell Andrus
01-12-2009, 1:09 PM
I had a Vic-20. Even had the dot matrix color printer and 2400 baud modem. Smoking performance!

2400 baud????? That's living the life of Reilly...

I had a 300 baud acoustic coupler. - And a transistor radio tuned to static so I could listen to the cassette load. Cload.

Ben Rafael
01-12-2009, 1:31 PM
Anybody still using a Timex Sinclair?

Eric DeSilva
01-12-2009, 2:07 PM
Vic 20? TRS 80? Timex Sinclair? Ha! High end computing. I started with an S-100 bus with an 8080 card and a 8K memory card... Pair of 8" floppy drives. Had to rewrite the BIOS to configure a new printer.

As far as the OP goes... I've run both, dating back to when I had an SDK for the Mac that had a serial number in the single digits... My issue with Macs is sort of the same issue today that I had then... "Where's the reset switch?" I like getting down and dirty, configuring it to do things it isn't supposed to do, replacing things, and tweaking it the way I want. Apple's prevailing philosophy has always been to hide the computing from the user. If you are like most users, that is good. Apple has some of the best user interfaces made--the iPhone is a great example. But, it kind of pisses me off.

That said, I'd take whichever one had compatibility that made my life easier. It is a computer, not religion.

Tim Morton
01-12-2009, 7:32 PM
Vic 20? TRS 80? Timex Sinclair? Ha! High end computing. I started with an S-100 bus with an 8080 card and a 8K memory card... Pair of 8" floppy drives. Had to rewrite the BIOS to configure a new printer.

As far as the OP goes... I've run both, dating back to when I had an SDK for the Mac that had a serial number in the single digits... My issue with Macs is sort of the same issue today that I had then... "Where's the reset switch?" I like getting down and dirty, configuring it to do things it isn't supposed to do, replacing things, and tweaking it the way I want. Apple's prevailing philosophy has always been to hide the computing from the user. If you are like most users, that is good. Apple has some of the best user interfaces made--the iPhone is a great example. But, it kind of pisses me off.

That said, I'd take whichever one had compatibility that made my life easier. It is a computer, not religion.


there is nothing that you can't change or modify about a current mac if you know how. Open a terminal window as a root user and a browser window to search for the change you want to make and the world is your oyster.;)

Brian Elfert
01-12-2009, 7:36 PM
The simple truth is the vast majority of PCs are never upgraded beyond memory and maybe a new hard drive. A lot of the new PCs are hard to upgrade anyhow. Most folks just buy a complete new computer when the old one just won't do anymore.

I'm a PC guy all the way, but I gave up on building my own or upgrading motherboards and the like years ago. At the time I wasn't buying Windows licenses and to actually be legal was costing just as much as a prebuilt PC. Plus, the prebuilts have a warranty and I don't have to figure out what part came from where.

Neal Clayton
01-12-2009, 9:13 PM
there is nothing that you can't change or modify about a current mac if you know how. Open a terminal window as a root user and a browser window to search for the change you want to make and the world is your oyster.;)

except for the fact that free *nix variants are better documented via google than the mac OS is from the manufacturer.

Ron Bontz
01-12-2009, 11:47 PM
This has been a most interesting read. I am just a true novice in this realm. I have been playing with Linux off and on for a few years. I have owned several copies on Windows. 98-xp. The XP was fine but changing hardware around a lot caused me to quit using it. MS would not activate it after 2 or 3 times. My child,15y/o, I think has finally caught on to NOT downloading things like limewire, AIM etc. One of those "Download this windows fix" just wiped out her computer to the point it would not even get beyond the bios. Needless to say the last two days has been spent wiping clean, formatting etc. Alas that PC runs like a champ again. And yes it has XP on it. I am now currently using my 2000 version. I don't have to have permission to activate what I already paid for. With that said I have relatives in the computer arena, research etc. My next computer will be a MAC. Micro. seems to look a lot like Linux these days anyway. At least since XP. In fact I'm on firefox now and use thunderbird. They seem to run quicker for me. I'll be looking at Open Office again. I just priced a newer version of MS office. I would rather buy a planer molder or something. At least I know I have something to show for my money other than a jar of ibuprophen.:)

Ron Bontz
01-12-2009, 11:59 PM
Ask my child about PC worms, the disappearing cursors, the slow downs and the nice little PC programs that embed themselves in the registry. Can you say editreg? :eek: It was easier to kill the beast than disinfect the critter.:mad:

Brian Elfert
01-13-2009, 9:15 AM
Micrsosoft does have the Home and Student version of Office that costs just $150 and is on sale at Best Buy for $100.

Some employers have a home use program through Microsoft. Home users can purchase Office 2007 for Windows or Office 2008 for Mac for $20.

Cliff Rohrabacher
01-13-2009, 12:51 PM
The reason I don't have a Mac is money.
I like them just fine, I like the OS just fine.

However when I upgrade to whatever latest Main board and chipset there is, I don't have to pay Mac prices.
I just get a main board a cpu some memory and I'm off and running. for less than a few hundred dollars.

If I got the Mac, the initial purchase is pretty stiff and I don't know anything at all about after market mainboards and chipsets etc., that are Mac complaint.

SO when I want a "new" computer I stay with the Clone format.

Robert Parrish
01-13-2009, 1:50 PM
Cliff, the price of a new Mac is very close to a PC unless you are talking about the really cheap PC'S. You can get a Mac Mini for $599 or a IMac 20" starting at $1199. You also get a lot more software and you don't have to buy a anti virus program. You can also run Windows on the mac if you want. I made my living from computers for 40 years and the pc for the last 26. I was pro PC and anti Mac for all those years until I bought an IMac 2 years ago. It is stable, secure and so much easier to use. BTW the Mac uses the same Intel processors that the PC's use.

Paul Atkins
01-14-2009, 1:05 PM
The $2100 I have in my 24" iMac has been worth the money because time is money too! I have spent weeks, if not months screwing around with windows (small w) for the last 20 years. We got rid of the TV and now have eyetv installed and get 14 channels on the rooftop antenna crystal clear. Thousands of songs on itunes, more software than I'll ever use, and no antivirus or viruses (yet). Plug and play is just that. Wireless itunes to the shop this weekend. Finally a machine that just works!

John Shuk
01-17-2009, 7:44 AM
My Mac seemed a bit expensive but the $2500 pc I bought before it never quite worked right. I also have no spyware/antivirus running and all has been well for 3 or 4 years now.
For me it was the best home computer decision I have ever made.
I have an IMac and a Mac Mini for my kids. Both work wonderfully.

Robert Parrish
01-17-2009, 8:43 AM
Try the Apple TV John, it's great if you want to watch woodworking podcast videos on a large screen. It syncs with my IMac automatically. My wife even uses it for her knitting videos.

Thomas Bank
01-17-2009, 10:42 AM
I've been using Macs (well, Apple IIs before the Mac) and PCs for over thirty years - pretty much since the beginning of both.

I really appreciate OSX being Unix based and being able to "get under the hood" with it in a way that was a bit more difficult in OS9 and before. I give Apple a lot of credit for "wiping the slate clean" and starting fresh - there are still MS-DOS issues tucked away in corners of XP (I haven't tried Vista yet due to certain programs I use still having compatibility issues.

Likewise, I get irritated at the way Windows combines everything in the Registry - opening up all sorts of problems with programs "stepping" on each other and the convoluted issues that can come from programs not fully removing themselves from the registry.

I find that the Mac separates users from each other better on a machine - there seems to be a lot of questionable crossover on the Windows side with one person's settings for certain things affecting everyone on that machine.

I also like the software that comes with a Mac compared to what comes with Windows - that right there is worth the "extra" price of the Mac to me.

I also get frustrated by MS products that try to be "too" helpful. Word's "auto-correct" features drive me up the freaking wall - mainly due to being in a technical profession with too many words outside of general usage. But even in personal writing I have issues with it changing words, capitalizing things, de-capitalizing things, and such.

My Mac has no MS programs on it - not one. And I am fully able to do everything I need to do. My PC has Quicktime and iTunes and there are a number of other Mac-only programs I wish that I could have on the PC.

I do regret that for the most part CNC-type applications are driven off a parallel port and tend to dismiss the Mac side of things. But there are Unix applications that I can get to work on the Mac for such things - just that it is more of an issue doing so than having the wealth of applications available on the PC side.