End to end joints in bench top?

[Jim Eller]

I am really having a difficult time finding material the right size for my bench top with out wasting a ton of wood$$$$$$.

My question, can you have an end to end joint in a bench top.

For example, if the bench top is six feet long, can you use a four foot and a two foot piece between two six foot sections in the glue-up?

What are the pros and cons and is there something special you have to do?

Thanks,
Jim

[John Schreiber]

Sure you can. It does decrease strength of the top a little, but a workbench top is generally so strong that it doesn't matter.

Do make sure that you stagger any joints so that they don't line up. You could also scarf (taper) the ends of the pieces so that they meet at an angle. That would increase strength and make it look a little prettier. Finger joints are another option, but they require an expensive router or shaper bit.

I'm surprised you're having trouble finding long wood. Are you using an unusual wood, or are you using leftovers from another project?

[Greg Hines, MD]

Another choice you might want to look into is doing an end to end half lap to join your smaller pieces before gluing up your top.

Doc

[Jim Eller]

John,

I bought some 8/4 ash I found in Knoxville. I've looked and advertised on the net and called every place within reason around here.

The problem is, all of the pieces I've found are in lengths of nine, ten and eleven feet. I found a couple twelve footers. So if you want a bench six or eight feet I end up with a bunch of odds and ends cutoffs. Of course that drives the price way up.

Greg,

Not a bad idea! It sure would add some strength.

[harry strasil]

The Stopped, Splayed, Wedged Scarf shown at D was a Joint in old Timber Framing used to join timbers to make long ones.

Also the Bladed, Stopped, Wedged one shown at H was another good strong joint used to make long timbers.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/irnsrgn/wood/ScarfLayout.jpg

[Chris Padilla]

I've glued end-grain to end-grain in situations where I knew the wood would be well-supported on the long-grain side. A workbench is a perfect situation for that so I wouldn't sweat doing anything more fancy.

If you do want it a tad stronger, try biscuits or dowels or Dominos. A mortise and tenon joint (traditional or floating) could also work.

If it were me, I'd just butt-glue them and then handle them a bit gingerly until they are glued up with the rest of the top....

[Dewey Torres]

Buy the time you glue long grain to long grain as Chris eluded to, you could not glue or biscuit or domino, or dowel the thing and I would bet my next paycheck if done correctly, it will still outlive you.

[Paul Demetropoulos]

I'm with Chris & Dewey, sandwiched in and glued long grain it ain't goin' nowhere. Just stagger the joints and you're fine.

[Jim Eller]

Thanks to all.

I guess it is not a concern. I guess I'll go for it.

Jim

[Wilbur Pan]

Before you go for it, take a hand plane and figure out which way the grain is running on your two short pieces, and orient them so that they are going in the same direction. You'll be glad you did this when it comes time to flatten the top of your bench.

[Frank Drew]

Before you go for it, take a hand plane and figure out which way the grain is running on your two short pieces, and orient them so that they are going in the same direction.

This is a good suggestion.

I don't think it's necessary structurally, but tongue and grooving or splining along your long side gluing faces might make the glue-up a bit easier, keeping the pieces registered to each other. This might particularly be the case if you have a number of these random length joints in the top and plan on a one-time glue-up.

[harry strasil]

FWIW, if I had this problem myself, and I like to use salvaged lumber a lot, I would use a simple glued dovetail joint, it can be easily cut out on a bandsaw or with hand saws, just make a pattern first from some white cardboard or some scrap thin paneling and use a marking knife to mark it out on the stock you are going to join so you can accurately cut close to the proper side of the line.

[Jack Wilson50]

Jim:

When carpenters fab long beams for houses, they just butt them and stagger the joints. You might even have one in your basement. Butt them and stagger the joints and you will be fine.

Jack

[Tom Grant]

Harry,
How does the "Bladed, Stopped, Wedged" joint (H) work? It looks really cool, but i'm not seeing how the wedge is doing anything but push the joint apart.

[Jim Becker]

My commercially acquired benchtop is made exactly that way...a lot of smaller pieces.

[Wilbur Pan]

Harry,
How does the "Bladed, Stopped, Wedged" joint (H) work? It looks really cool, but i'm not seeing how the wedge is doing anything but push the joint apart.
The principle in this type of joint is that the wedge does push the joint apart, but there is something mechanical in the joint that locks the boards in place. In the case of (H), it's the little grooves that are parallel to the surface of the boards. The same sort of thing is going on in (D) in Harry's diagram.

[michael osadchuk]

Harry,
How does the "Bladed, Stopped, Wedged" joint (H) work? It looks really cool, but i'm not seeing how the wedge is doing anything but push the joint apart.

Tom,

I used this joint to join two 2x10 timbers lengthwise to make stringers for a longish outdoor staircase so I have a bit of familiarity with the joint.

I believe the (H) drawing needs to be revised a bit - with the square "hole" thru which reciprocal wedges are placed, needing to be IN LINE with the 'ears' or extended notches on the extremities of the scarf.... with the wedged hole thus located the two timbers are drawn together more tightly....... the 'sloping' wedged scarf joint (D) does show the correct location for the wedges

good luck

michael

[harry strasil]

sorry, I goofed on that one, was in a hurry.

[Rick Thom]

My commercially acquired benchtop is made exactly that way...a lot of smaller pieces.
So is mine. Laminated with Titebond 3, the joint is stronger than the body of the wood. No need for anything other than butt joints for joining the ends of boards, just stagger the joints. Make sure that boards are thicknessed consistently and end cuts mate precisely.

[Tom Grant]

Ahhh! Thanks for the clarification guys. Harry, you've inspired me to find an excuse to use that beautiful joint somewhere.

[Jim Eller]

Thanks to all.

No wonder I like this site!