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Rusty Elam
01-10-2009, 4:52 PM
Today I was in the shop making a recess in a plaque to install a large brass plate and my wife came out while I was chopping out the waste with chisels, she asked if she could do it for a minute. After I showed her how to go at it she spent the next 2 hours meticulously removing the waste and she loved it. So I told her if you are going to do the rough part you are going to have to the hard work as well and showed her how to clean up the outside edge to the cut line. To my surprise she said ok and did a magnificent job of of it with me watching in awe. Then she said why didn't you tell how fun this part of woodworking is.
So now she wants me to incorperate some kind of carving into a project (a shell or fan etc.) so she can do some more.
Now I dont know anything about carving other than what I have read online and in magazines so I need some help:
What tools do I need for her?
Whats a good tutorial for a fan or shell for a beginner?
I am not made of money( and I know some of these tools are high) but I have had her for 29 years and this is the first time shes shown any interest in woodworking so I would like to make her happy.
Thanks in advance
Rusty

randall rosenthal
01-10-2009, 5:58 PM
rusty ...there are some excellent tutorials right on this page just a few threads down. sounds like fun....my wife likes to watch but thats it.

Judy Kingery
01-10-2009, 6:24 PM
Rusty,

What a great husband you are indeed; my husband bought me Two Cherries carving set (6 chisels) which I very much enjoy. They are expensive and I'm sure there are lots of suggestions as to what people like and depending on what kind of carving they're doing.

I mostly do wood turning and then mallet work in terms of carving, not much hand chip carving. So my hand chip carving tools we just bought off eBay for a very inexpensive price or Amazon, not sure which, but they work fine for what I do with that.

Just wanted to encourage you and tell you I'm sure she very much appreciates that you support her interests or encourage her enjoyment. My husband sure does and it's a precious gift indeed. Well, he and I both do that, things he likes to do, I'm all for it and things I like to do, he's right behind me.

Best wishes!

Jude

Mike Henderson
01-10-2009, 8:16 PM
Rusty - look at the sticky at the beginning of this subforum. Zahid has put some of the tutorials in that sticky. I also just sent him a message and asked him to put some others there, also.

I think you'll both enjoy carving. Good luck!

Mike

[edit: Zahid added the other tutorials to the sticky - please look there.]

Rusty Elam
01-11-2009, 8:43 AM
Thanks for the information folks.
I am going to get some basic tools and see if she enjoys it.
I noticed that Pheil has 2 different types of intermediate tools at Woodcraft, any thoughts on these or should I stick with the regular full blown Pheil tools?
Rusty

Dewayne Reding
01-11-2009, 10:49 PM
Similar situation at my house. My wife can draw and paint, so I thought perhaps she could add some detail carving to some of my machine projects. I bought my wife a small starter set last week from Lee Valley, plus a detail knife from Pine Forge. She is having a blast. No interest in carvng figures, so I stuck with very small knifes, gouges etc for detailing.

Mike Henderson
01-11-2009, 11:26 PM
Thanks for the information folks.
I am going to get some basic tools and see if she enjoys it.
I noticed that Pheil has 2 different types of intermediate tools at Woodcraft, any thoughts on these or should I stick with the regular full blown Pheil tools?
Rusty
The Pfeil "D" tools are just shorter versions of the full size tools. I have a #12D/6 V-tool and like it for certain situations, but otherwise prefer the full size tools. If you think your wife might prefer the shorter tools for the greater control they provide, buy one or two and let her try them (along with one or two full size tools). If she doesn't like the "D" sized tools (or if she doesn't like the full size), put them up for sale on eBay and you'll get most of your money back.

I very much do not like any palm tools.

Mike

[Also, I'll comment that a VERY important part of carving is sharpening. If you cannot sharpen, you cannot carve. There are many sharpening techniques but I prefer a power system because it takes less time - so you spend more time carving. Look on my web site for the sharpening disk tutorial - but you do need a lathe to use it on.]

David Keller NC
01-12-2009, 9:47 AM
"I very much do not like any palm tools."

Like you, Mike - I use the traditional-pattern Pfiels. But there's a couple of cases that I can see palm tools being very useful. In particular, if you've arthritis or wrist problems, the straight shaft on a traditional carving tool can be uncomfortable, primarily because your wrist is bent with pressure on it in use. The palm tools allow the wrist to remain parallel to the forearm in use, so I do see quite a few older guys using these.

The other situation is young children. Often the smaller grip and orientation makes palm tools much easier to use with their smaller hands, particularly because parents are usually iffy on re-handling a lot of traditional tools for what turns out to be a temporary sitaution (small hands).

Rusty Elam
01-12-2009, 9:59 PM
Well Mike I ordered a set of Pfeils from woodcraft that they had on clearance, they are full sized with different handles. I know others have said not to buy sets but for $99 bucks I figured how could I go wrong.
I dont know how to put up a link but here is what came with it.


Set includes:

#1 Straight chisel 14mm
#1 Skew chisel 14mm
#3 Gouge 20mm
#5 Gouge 10mm
#7 Gouge 12mm
#9 Gouge 13mm
#12 V tool 6mm
A Canard carving knife
White Arkansas stone
A Swiss Edelweiss drawing pencil
How did I do?
What will we be missing that I should think about filling in?
Rusty

Mike Henderson
01-12-2009, 11:16 PM
Seven full sized Pfeil tools for $99 is good. They run $25 each (or more) around here.

The #1s probably won't get much use - at least I don't use mine very much. I would want a few smaller gouges - some of my most used gouges are my #2/5 and my #3/5 - but it depends on what kind of carving you or your wife will be doing.

Also, the gouges with heavy sweep, like the #9, may not get a lot of use. My workhorse gouges are gouges with mild sweep, like #2s and #3s. These get used in roughing out every project.

What I would recommend to you is to buy tools as you have projects. That is, suppose you were going to carve a basic shell. I'd figure out what tools I needed for that and get the ones you're missing. That way, you gradually build up the variety of tools so the next time you do a project, you might not have to buy any at all. (is that possible??? I'm still buying tools.:))

The other area is sharpening. If you have a lathe, please look into doing power sharpening. You really need to have sharp tools and a power system is so much faster and does a really good job. If you don't have a lathe, consider getting a cheap mini-lathe and use it with the sharpening disk I have on my web site - and you can use the lathe to turn things also.

Good luck! We'll be looking for some pictures of you or your wife's projects soon.

Mike

randall rosenthal
01-13-2009, 9:26 AM
i would only add that i really like fishtail gouges and they do 75% of my work....i sharpen with a cloth wheel on a bench grinder and various grits jewelers rouge and some heavier compounds....quick cheap and simple. for flat edges i use wet dry sandpaper on glass with any lube that happens to be around....corrosion X works well.

David Keller NC
01-13-2009, 10:47 AM
Rusty - I'll add to Mike's comments about the tool's usefullness in your set - #1s in the swiss system are, of course, the straight chisels. Typically these are double-beveled, though Pfiel does sell single-bevel chisels. These have a very specific purpose - lettering. In letter carving, the straight chisels are used to cut the straight portions of letters in the roman alphabet, while gouges of various sweeps are used to cut the curved portions of the letters.

I do think you may find the #9 useful for roughing out deep-relief carvings. Another name for these are "quick gouges", typically applied to #9s and #11s. Naturally, they came by this name for their ability to remove lots of wood in a hurry under the duress of a mallet. You may find these useful for taking the ground down in a relief carving in a hurry. If you use a router for this purpose, you may not find them useful at all.

A mallet, by the way, is something you should consider purchasing. For the most part, carvers use round mallets, though there are some adherents to the retangular carpenter's mallets. In my opinion, the WoodJoy line of urethane-covered mallets are the best all-around carver's mallets available. The urethane head is kind to your tools and also is a good deal less noisy than a wood-on-wood strike that comes from a traditional lignum vitae carver's mallet. You can get the smaller size in the 12 and 18 ounce weights, the larger sizes come in 20 and 30 ounce (I think - I don't have the larger diameter ones). To start with, I'd recommend the 12 ounce mallet, though you may find the 18 ounce useful if you want to do larger, sculptural carvings or bowl carvings.

Rusty Elam
01-13-2009, 11:54 AM
Thanks so much guys for all this information as I dont have a clue (but am trying to learn).
I thought I might have to add some smaller chisels as you said Mike but this seemed like a deal and its a place to start. Since Woodcraft here keeps a pretty good selection of Pfiel, as I recall, I think I will be able to fill in as the need arrises.
A couple more questions if you guys dont mind;
Do the Pfiels come honed or do I need to touch them up?

Can I get by till I see how much my wife is really into this (and me) sharpening with the slip stones or maybe the carvers waterstones before I spend alot on power sharpening?

Mike I have been reading your very nice tutorials and have a question. When you are rounding the flutes on your fan are you just turning the gouge over? Because I saw a similar tutorial in Popular Woodworking that said you needed Back Bent Gouges for this. If I am right about your way it seems my easier and much cheaper (2 of my favorite things).

Lastly is there a site on the web or something where you can get patterns for relief carvings, I dont have a artistic bone in my body?

Thanks again Rusty

Johnm Chase
01-14-2009, 11:14 AM
Hi Rusty My wife is also dialed into carving. It makes it easier when you need a tool to buy it together. A thought on her introduction to carving is you might want to, if you haven't already, is go look at some books together on the subject and get her some notions on what she might have an interest in. She may find something totally different from what you like. I have found several used ones at reasonable prices with great material from technique to sharpening.

David Keller NC
01-14-2009, 11:42 AM
"Do the Pfiels come honed or do I need to touch them up?"

Pfiels come dangerously sharp from the factory, which is one reason for their popularity. However, you can improve on their shaprness a bit with a leather strop and a appropriate honing compound. I make these myself by gluing a piece of saddle leather to a scrap of mahogany, but you can also purchase a piece of horse hide leather specifically for the purpose from Tools for Working Wood.


"Can I get by till I see how much my wife is really into this (and me) sharpening with the slip stones or maybe the carvers waterstones before I spend alot on power sharpening?"

I was taught both power sharpening methods (in my case, the Tormek system) but also hand-sharpening on honing stones. After a few years at this, I grind/hone all of my carving tools by hand. There's a couple of reasons - I have more control over the bevel shape and cutting angle when done by hand, and hand-sharpening on a flat stone results in flat bevels on carving tools. Also, grinding on any type of wheel system results in a hollow bevel.

In my opinion, this is not a good thing. The hollow bevel tends to drive the cutting edge into the wood, and makes it difficult to cleanly exit the cut at the end. This is also Chris Pye's opinion if you read one of his beginning carving books - he tells you to grind/hone a flat bevel on the tools (with no secondary bevel), and to put an interior bevel on the straight gouges that allows them to be used upside-down to give a convex surface.

There are power-sharpening systems that don't give you hollow-ground bevels, notably the Worksharp system and the Jool Tool.

Finally, I find that carving tools will yield a whole lot of use before they require honing/grinding, whether by hand on stones or with a power-sharpening system, so long as a strop is handy. I can usually restore a slightly dull edge to beyond razor sharp with about 5 strokes on a leather strop with honing compound. It's far, far faster than setting up honing stones or a power system, and it takes off a lot less steel, so the carving tools last longer.

"Mike I have been reading your very nice tutorials and have a question. When you are rounding the flutes on your fan are you just turning the gouge over? Because I saw a similar tutorial in Popular Woodworking that said you needed Back Bent Gouges for this. If I am right about your way it seems my easier and much cheaper (2 of my favorite things)."

While addressed to Mike, hopefully he won't mind if I add a comment here - with an interior bevel added to a straight gouge, you can use it upside down, so long as what you're carving allows clearance for the handle. The fans that I've carved have all been done with upside-down straight gouges.

"Lastly is there a site on the web or something where you can get patterns for relief carvings, I dont have a artistic bone in my body?"

There are unbelievable amounts of carving patterns for sale (and some free) on the 'net. One of the more prolific artists is Lora Irish:

http://www.carvingpatterns.com/

She's also written a book on the subject that have quite a few carving patterns in it. Her work is a bit too flowery for my taste, but her stuff is extremely popular.

Mike Henderson
01-14-2009, 11:48 AM
Thanks so much guys for all this information as I dont have a clue (but am trying to learn).
I thought I might have to add some smaller chisels as you said Mike but this seemed like a deal and its a place to start. Since Woodcraft here keeps a pretty good selection of Pfiel, as I recall, I think I will be able to fill in as the need arrises.
A couple more questions if you guys dont mind;
Do the Pfiels come honed or do I need to touch them up?
The Pfeils come sharp and I've probably used them without honing. But power honing is so easy that I might hone them before use.

Can I get by till I see how much my wife is really into this (and me) sharpening with the slip stones or maybe the carvers waterstones before I spend alot on power sharpening?
You can certainly sharpen by hand - that's all our ancestors had and they produced some wonderful carvings. It's just takes longer - or at least it takes me longer. I should comment that when I say "power sharpening" I do not mean something like a Tormek. I probably should have said "power honing" because that's really what I do. A wheel with some honing compound will work to touch up your tools very well.

Mike I have been reading your very nice tutorials and have a question. When you are rounding the flutes on your fan are you just turning the gouge over? Because I saw a similar tutorial in Popular Woodworking that said you needed Back Bent Gouges for this. If I am right about your way it seems my easier and much cheaper (2 of my favorite things).
As you get into carving, you'll find that you can make your tools do things they weren't designed for. For example, sometimes you can use one side of a wide gouge to do the work of a narrow gouge. But it's easier with the proper tool. When you have a design like the shell, where you have easy access to the flutes, you can use almost any tool to round over the flutes (I use the gouge both upside down and right side up). Additionally, I suggest sanding the flutes afterwards so even if you leave tool marks, the sandpaper will take them out. Sandpaper is just another carving tool and should be used with the same judgment you use to select any carving tool.

Lastly is there a site on the web or something where you can get patterns for relief carvings, I dont have a artistic bone in my body?
I don't have any artistic talent either and that's why I stick to carving for furniture. There's a couple of books by Frederick Wilber, here (http://www.amazon.com/Carving-Architectural-Detail-Wood-Classical/dp/1861081588/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1231951404&sr=1-1) and here (http://www.amazon.com/Carving-Classical-Styles-Wood-Wilbur/dp/1861083637/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1231951404&sr=1-2), which I've found useful. Maybe someone else will chime in with some recommendations.

But start looking at the world through carver's eyes and when you see a picture that will work for you, save it on your computer.

Thanks again Rusty

Rusty - please see my comments right after your questions.

Rusty Elam
01-15-2009, 12:28 PM
You guys are so helpful I really appreciate it.
I picked up a 12 ounce urathane mallet for her, and we went by Woodcraft yesterday and I picked up a Pfiel #3/5.
I think this is plenty to get started with and will fill in as needed as you suggested.
I have some felt wheels so I might try to use them for honing for now.
I think I will make a leather power strop in the near future.
I do have one question , what rpm do you turn a leather strop like you show on your web site Mike?
Rusty

Bill Keehn
01-15-2009, 1:20 PM
Rusty,

I bought the Chris Pye books, "Woodcarving Tools, Materials & Equipment" volumes 1 & 2. They carry them at my local Woodcraft and I have also seen them at Borders. I found them to be a good read. I think you can also order them off his website.