Table saw suggestions

[Josh Gerber]

Hi Guys,

I fairly new to the Creek and have been lurking around for a little while now. I wanted to get started in woodworking. I've made a couple of shelves for my DVDs, but wanted to take things to the next level.

I've always heard a table saw is the most versatile tool in the shop. And I need one. But like others, space is a concern. My "shop" needs to go away when not in use. I also don't want to start out with a very expensive saw only to find out I'm not that good at woodworking, or lose interest. Now don't get me wrong in my mind I can build anything but my skills starting out may prove different.

I've tried the search feature on the forum, but you can only imagine how many hits "table saw" comes back with. I was looking around and found the Ryobi BTS16. I know its the not best but I was proud of myself because it wasn't the cheapest either! Its a direct drive which isn't ideal, but would it be a good entry saw? Some of the projects I have in mind are a toy box for my son, some "mudroom lockers" and maybe a bedroom suite. Like I said in my mind I can do it. My thought is after I improve and make this more of a hobby to upgrade to a larger saw. I like the fact that this one can be put on a shelf when not in use. Will this saw accomidate a stacked dado blade?

What are you thoughts guys, I really don't want this toy box to cost over $1000.

Thanks

Josh

[Greg Stanford]

Take a look at Grizzley.

g

[Jim O'Dell]

You can usually find a used Ridgid unit on Craigs List for a decent price. It would be a regular contractor saw. I've seen them locally for 200-275. Jim.

[Dewey Torres]

Since it seems to me your goal is to have a table saw you can easily move, how about reading though this article on portable table saws and see if it is of any use:

http://www.toolcritic.com/portable-table-saws.html

[David Christopher]

MY Dad had a BT 3000 ryobi TS and it was suprizing on how well it worked. so if you can get a good deal go for it

[John Thompson]

That BTS 16 is not a Ryobi BT3000 or 3100 which is actually a very good saw for the money. Unless they are basically giving it away wait and find a used BT 31000 or Sears has their portable version made by Ryobi which goes on sale.

Just my opionion on money that should not be spent unless it almost a give-a-way.

Sarge..

[Jordan Shatsoff]

I have the Ridgid ts2400ls. I don't typically fold it up, but do have to maneuver it around to work around the pole in the middle of my basement. It does fold up easily and can be propped up against the wall.

[Casey Gooding]

What type of work do you want to do?? You might think about a nice bandsaw instead. I think the bandsaw is really the most versatile tool in the shop. Put it on a mobile base and you'll have no problem getting out of the way

[Jason Hanko]

If you're not sure you really want to fully dive into woodworking quite yet, then I think that for the most part you're on the right track: get a decent contractors saw. Then once you're hooked you can always save up for a nice Grizzly! :D
You should be able to get a very decent one for well under $500. Bosch, Jet and Ridgid contractor saws get good reviews, but the Ryobi 3100 looks like a decent buy too (I dont know about that BTS16).
I wouldnt worry too much about getting one of the anti-gravity-hoverboard-lift models unless you REALLY plan on folding it down every night after using it. Just be sure that whatever base it does have is STURDY - theres nothing worse than pushing a piece of wood towards the blade and feeling the saw sway back like its sitting on something made from popsicle sticks and thumbtacks! :eek:
Personally I went with a $300 Jet Contractors Saw since thats all I could afford right out of college. And while now that Im moving on in my woodworking skills and have definitely outgrown it, it has served me well for 4+ years (and probably will a few more until I can afford a decent cabinet saw).
For the projects you have listed I think a table saw would be a better choice than a bandsaw for the most part. Be careful with contractor saws and Dado sets - a lot of them have arbor lengths that arent long enough to accommodate the FULL width of a dado stack and still get the arbor nut to engage all of the threads. You'd probably be able to get at least some of the chippers in before you run out of room tho.
IMHO you'd be better of taking the $$ you'd pay for a decent dado stack and get a router if you dont already have one - preferably a combo set that includes both plunge and fixed bases - MUCH more versatile than a dado stack.

[Sonny Edmonds]

Hi Guys,


I've always heard a table saw is the most versatile tool in the shop. And I need one.

I've tried the search feature on the forum, but you can only imagine how many hits "table saw" comes back with.



Now there is an Oxymoron. Wouldn't you suppose that the most versatile would also be the most posted about? :rolleyes:

Lot's out there, Josh.
Get the best you can afford.
I recommend a cabinet type saw if at all possible. Griz made some well within your price ceiling. And Friends of mine are very happy with theirs.

Simple as that.
Get the best you can afford. Buy once, cry once, live happy. :)

[Randy Carnley]

Take a good look at the Bosch. I had one of their saws on the gravity rise stand (before I splurged and bought a contractor saw) and it did a really good job for me and I am very particular. It's certainly not cheap but worth the little extra it might cost. By the way, I used mine for about a year and sold it for almost exactly what I had paid for it. Good luck

[scott spencer]

Hi Josh - I think you'd be better off skipping the class of lightweight "benchtops" like the Ryobi BTS16 and equivalents...they're the type of saw that many of us start with unknowingly, and get quickly frustrated with...both functionally and financially b/c they have very poor resale, poor accuracy, poor reliability, and poor expandability. Portables are the easiest to stow away, but that portability comes with an inherent down side....surface area to work on, especially in front of the blade, and lack of mass which makes them less stable. There's not much that's more unnerving than having the saw start to tip in the middle of a cut. They're also louder due to their universal motors, and tend to be made of materials like aluminum and plastic to save weight. Even so, there are still many good portable jobsite saws capable of providing good service for woodworking. Some of the top contenders are the Bosch, Ridgid, DeWalt, Porter Cable. Portability aside, the jobsite saws have few advantages over a full size saw.

Any of the saws on the market can be put on wheels to roll around the shop easily. A full size contractor saw, hybrid, or cabinet saw offers excellent precision, large smooth table surfaces, quiet power with belt drive induction motors, stability, long term reliability, good resale, better fences, and the ability to upgrade or customize your saw...many of the components are interchangeable on standard size saws....fence, wings, miter gauge, motors in some cases. This makes many of these excellent candidates in the used market, which typically gets you the most bang for the buck, little depreciation, and tbe ability to upgrade as your awareness and skills increase. Traditional contractor saws have the motor hanging off the back for easy removal, which takes up extra room when installed, but the motors aren't all that convenient to remove so they tend to stay on. Delta, Grizzly, Ridgid, and General International still offer good contractor saws in the marketplace. Some of the older Emerson made Craftsman, Ridgid, Jet, Grizzly, Powermatic, GI, or Delta make excellent used candidates.

The next step up is a hybrid saw which is similar in duty rating, power, size, and electrical requirements as a contractor saw, but the motor is housed inside the enclosure which offers several advantages. ...basically an evolution of the 60 year old contractor saw design. Every major name now offers at least one. The new Ridgid R4511 shows a lot of promise for $599 but is just being introduced. Fortunately it's technology comes from Steel City/Orion and is fairly well proven for a new release. Jet, Craftsman, Steel City, Shop Fox, Grizzly, Delta, GI, Sunhill, and Woodtek all make good hybrids to fit your budget.

A full industrial cabinet saw trumps them all, and offers all of the advantages of a contractor saw or hybrid and then some...more power, more mass, more robust construction, easier alignment, smoother operation, etc. Note that these start at the upper end of your budget and require 220v operation. Good used cabinet saws are an excellent option. Grizzly, Steel City, Shop Fox, and Jet tend to offer the least expensive options in this class. Powermatic, General/GI, Jet, Saw Stop and Delta tend to cost more....a lot more in some cases.

My advice is to go to a good woodworking supply store and take a look at the offerings regardless of price, and get to know what's out there, then make an informed decision and buy what makes the most sense to you. Once you get into the better classes of saws, the end performance is largely determined by proper setup and blade selection, so don't fuss too much about one brand being significantly better or worse when comparing apples to apples....any listed should serve you well.

Here are a couple of articles that may help:
- from Rockler (http://www.rockler.com/articles/display_article.cfm?story_id=115)
- from Woodcraft (http://www.woodcraft.com/articles.aspx?articleid=241)

Good luck and please post with your progress!

[Myk Rian]

What are you thoughts guys, I really don't want this toy box to cost over $1000.
Look at this saw. I love mine.
http://www.steelcitytoolworks.com/products/35670/35670_thumb.jpg
http://www.steelcitytoolworks.com/products_tools.cfm?section=2&category=12&tool=35670

[John Carlo]

For me a big question is how well it handles dadoes. Does the arbor have the capacity? Is table long enough front to back to support your work? Does it have the HP? Does the saw have the heft to stay in place when ripping or running dado operations on long boards? I run dadoes so often in cabinet construction that I'm thinking of buying a second TS just to leave the dado on full time.

[Mike Wellner]

Look for a used Delta 34-444, its a nice saw, and add a biesmeyer fence

[Don Bullock]

How about one of these?

http://www.sawstop.com/images/contractor_saw_cart_sm.jpg

SawStop Contractors saw with Job Site Cart

[Chris Padilla]

The used market for largish tools like a TS is excellent right now. For a beginner "who ain't so sure", this is a good time to try some things out for not too much cash outlay.... craigslist is your ticket

[Steve H Graham]

Let me make a suggestion. I just bought a used Powermatic 66 for $500, with something like 20 spare blades included. I counted them, but I forgot how many it was. I was amazed at my luck, but since then, I have learned that really good deals aren't that rare. Watch Craigslist and pounce when you see something good. I saw a neat old Atlas for $200 recently. If all I wanted was good used table saws, I could have filled my garage with them this month.

And don't be afraid of used saws. They are very, very simple, and there isn't that much that can go wrong with them. If you have to replace something, you should be able to do it yourself.

The people on this forum were very, very helpful, and I'm sure they'll be helpful to you, too. They can tell you what problems to look for when you check out a saw.

[Craig Kershaw]

Josh - Welcome to the Creek, a great source for info and even greater group of people.

When I was in your situation about 3 years ago I went with a contractor table saw. They're a good value for the money, and have a good resale value in the event woodworking is not for you. Get a mobile base and you can roll it out of the way when you're not using it.

No matter what you get, make SURE you know how to SAFELY use it. Go slow, get some hands on advise, make sure your techniques are sound. There are numerous threads on the Creek about accidents and near misses.

[Steve Griffin]

My first advice to new woodworkers:

"NEVER buy the best you can afford."

You say you have $1000 for your table saw? I'd go with no more than a $500 or $600 saw and then spend the rest on setting it up well. Build an outfeed table, get some nice blades, a dado set, rollers for the fence and possibly a cross cut sled.

I built a house and much furniture with the BT3000 and it's a good choice.

A better choice is the Rigid. Just today I replaced the motor in mine which is 9 years old. Not bad considering it also built a house and about $500,000 of fine furniture and cabinetry for my small business.
Don't tell me a casual hobbiest NEEDS anything more than that!

(Now I have a 3Hp Grizzly as my main saw and love it, but you don't need that yet.)

-Steve

[Alex Jenness]

Just to throw out a couple of my thoughts...

I quickly moved from a portable saw to a contractor saw. While I was able to get a lot accomplished with the portable, the contractor saw is easier to setup and generally functions better. I bought my current saw for $200 on craigslist and I see deals like this all the time.

As far as what to get for a starter saw: if you're only doing simple parts like squares and rectangles maybe a circular saw is the way to go. Also, if space is an issue, remember that table saws take up a lot more space and sometimes you need a lot of space around you to maneuver your work.

[BOB OLINGER]

Josh,

Welcome to the creek. You'll find amazingly helpful folks here. Not everyone has the same idea or viewpoint, but all suggestions are from the heart. Personally, I've been doing woodworking for close to 40 yrs. I used a 9" Delta Contractors saw for like 38 of those years and just bought a used 10" Delta Contractors saw at a garage sale this year for $200 from a guy heading back to Europe for military duty. It's in excellent shape. Even though it's not a cabinet or even a hybrid, it will serve me well, and I will make a lot of good quality items. My point is first get acquainted with various brands, options, models, etc. Then attempt to purchase a good used one from a garage sale, craigslist, or similar. A lot of us old guys don't need to purchase new and I suggest you shouldn't, either. Make your money stretch. Another point - keep an eye on the discount section of sawcreek. I just received a new Freud router that Lowes was closing out for $99 - likely a value over $200. Best to you. Let us know if further questions.

[Josh Gerber]

Well after a few months of saving my pennies, and lots of reading I bought the Ridgid R4511 Granite Table Saw. I picked it up last Sunday, hopefully tomorrow night I can finish the assembly. Thanks for all of the comments and tips!