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Tim Bateson
01-08-2009, 1:52 PM
Windows 7 Beta will be available for download starting tomorrow!
Here is an outtake from PC World:
Microsoft... announced a free public beta of the new OS, which reportedly will be less of a resource hog than Vista and may even run well on netbooks. The Windows 7 public beta is reportedly "feature complete"...

Microsoft says Windows 7 is a leaner, stripped-down OS that will require as little as 1GB of memory... Vista has the same memory requirement but runs sluggishly on systems with 1GB of RAM.

But there's more to Windows 7 that faster performance, Microsoft says. There are plenty of under-the-hood changes, including a revamped Vista kernel and a less-annoying User Account Control that you can configure to post fewer security warnings. The Windows interface will undergo some changes as well...

Frank Corker
01-08-2009, 4:11 PM
Obviously Microsoft have something new that they want to push on everyone. Right now if you buy a new pc you have to have the big mistake installed from the 'get go' (yes Vista). That machine was geared mainly around putting emphasis on creating your own movies and a load of other totally useless stuff like video games. Which incidently is the main reason why most of us have so much RAM. I suppose it will be another stupid operating system that won't be backwards compatible and yet more waste of time! The old expression that still makes me laugh is, "you can save so much time with a computer" phooey.

Stephen Beckham
01-08-2009, 8:00 PM
Not sure if all of you have heard it, but the joke in the community was the order of the software versions. Windows CE came out, then Windows ME and then finally they switch to Windows NT. Didn't take long to figure out when they added them all together they came up with CEMENT...:eek:

Boyd Gathwright
01-08-2009, 9:29 PM
...."CEMENT" that's pretty good. When the computer is always waiting for me and not the other way around then we will have arrived.
Not sure if all of you have heard it, but the joke in the community was the order of the software versions. Windows CE came out, then Windows ME and then finally they switch to Windows NT. Didn't take long to figure out when they added them all together they came up with CEMENT...:eek:

Keith Outten
01-08-2009, 9:53 PM
What do you bet that Windows 7 is just Vista Rev2 and two times nuthin is nuthin.
.

Jason Roehl
01-09-2009, 7:17 AM
I guess I'll hold out a bit of hope. I was one of the unfortunate who bought a computer that shipped with WinME installed. It didn't take me long to upgrade to XP once it came out. I've heard the two extremes on Vista, but it's gotten plenty of bad press like ME did, so I'm hoping that "Win7" will be to Vista like XP was to ME. Microsoft didn't get to where they are today by only cranking out turd software...they've put out a few good things over the years.

Dan Hintz
01-09-2009, 9:03 AM
Keith,

Windows 7 is essentially Vista r2, and Microsoft hasn't exactly been quite about that fact. There are few major changes to the overall experience, more of an "upgrade pack" to Vista. In fact, if you install the beta on top of Vista it will install very similar to a service pack. The OS is quite a bit faster (though "faster" is a relative term when you're talking about a dumptruck), is less of a memory hog, and doesn't bother the user so much with constant "Are you sure you want to do that?" questions.

Be aware, though, this is still a beta, and as such will be time-limited. I stay away from betas on my home machine because they simply mean I'll be rebuilding my machine in 3-6 months when the license expires. Nothing lasts forever...

Paul Brinkmeyer
01-09-2009, 9:33 AM
OK, do I have this right?
First I pay for bad software...Vista...Then I pay to fix it...Version 7.

If I put out something bad, I fix it for free. And I do not wait 2 - 4 years.

It's like a newspaper...I pay to advertise in it and I pay to read it. How many peole get paid from the supplier and consumer?
(You can insert many magazines in here too.)

Just a random thought.

Curt Harms
01-09-2009, 11:45 AM
OK, do I have this right?
First I pay for bad software...Vista...Then I pay to fix it...Version 7.

If I put out something bad, I fix it for free. And I do not wait 2 - 4 years.



That's why they're rich and you're not:D.

Tim Bateson
01-09-2009, 11:55 AM
More good news - If you run this beta version it expires in 6 months, whether or not Win7 is ready for release.

Scott Shepherd
01-09-2009, 11:55 AM
OK, do I have this right?
First I pay for bad software...Vista...Then I pay to fix it...Version 7.

If I put out something bad, I fix it for free. And I do not wait 2 - 4 years.

It's like a newspaper...I pay to advertise in it and I pay to read it. How many peole get paid from the supplier and consumer?
(You can insert many magazines in here too.)

Just a random thought.

Now you know the apparent Xenetech Business model as well ;)

Dave Haughs
01-09-2009, 12:12 PM
http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/windows_7.png

Stephen Beckham
01-09-2009, 12:14 PM
Now you know the apparent Xenetech Business model as well ;)

Nice Scott - first time I've witnessed VIRTUAL SALT in a wound.... :D (Sorry guys who that gave a sting to, but you have to admit it is funny if you can get past it).

Niklas Bjornestal
01-09-2009, 5:28 PM
Not sure if all of you have heard it, but the joke in the community was the order of the software versions. Windows CE came out, then Windows ME and then finally they switch to Windows NT. Didn't take long to figure out when they added them all together they came up with CEMENT...:eek:

To bad that Windows NT was released BEFORE both CE and ME (Windows NT was relased 1993, windows CE was released 1997 and windows ME was released 2000)

Tom Gooch
01-10-2009, 6:43 PM
I've pretty much lost all respect for Microsoft. The Vista thing and their attempts to date to "fix" it have been like watching a combine try to harvest a tow truck. You can hve my XP when you pry it out of my cold dead hands! If epilog builds a driver for Mac, the fat lady would sing!

Bill Cunningham
01-10-2009, 10:09 PM
To bad that Windows NT was released BEFORE both CE and ME (Windows NT was relased 1993, windows CE was released 1997 and windows ME was released 2000)

So it should really be NTCEME (pronounced NutsyMe, or NotSeeMee):D
Reminds me of the two sales taxes we have in Ontario, the Federal Goods & Services Tax (GST) and the 'Provincial Sales Tax (PST).. just put them together and sound them out, and you have the public feelings about these taxes!:D

Tim Bateson
01-12-2009, 12:01 PM
MS had intended to limit the Beta release to 2.5 million copies. It seems after just a few days, they've already surpassed that and have removed the limit.
I really don't understand what all the fuss is about?:confused:

Oh wait a sec, :eek: I'm using Vista...uurrrggggggggg :mad: Win7 can't possibly be worse then this can it? Can it???? :confused:

Did anyone tell MS they got it right (real close anyway) with XP? I may have to try Win7 for myself - do I really have anything to loose?:o

*Note - Trying it will be on a desktop I no longer use - You didn't really think I'd try it on my laptop I use for lasering!!!! :cool:

Bill Morrison
01-12-2009, 12:19 PM
When you say "windows says", please keep in mind that microsoft has a pr budget almost as large as the pentagons. THe only lean OS microsoft ever had was DOS and Gates bought that from someone, he did not write it. I've got an HP with quad processors, 3 gigs of Ram and....Vista. I built another computer to run windows 2000, it has 1 gig of ram. Guess which is a lot faster.

Just my 2 cents. Now back to the regularly scheduled lasering.

Bill

Tim Bateson
01-12-2009, 12:23 PM
I can't remember what it was called, but I actually used that version of DOS. Am I showing my age? :D
It was a great combination of MSDOS and Unix.

Joe Cunningham
01-12-2009, 1:34 PM
I bought my Dell right before they made Vista mandatory. I also have a separate XP disk for any future machine I need to get, just in case Win7 doesn't work so hot either.

Dan Hintz
01-13-2009, 7:29 AM
Windows needs to go the way of Linux, at least in the ability to add or remove components from the kernel. This is one reason many Linux systems are significantly faster... they simply do not support everything under the sun, and if you want support you have to add in a package to the kernel that does. Windows requires all packages to be laded, regardless of it being used or not, and that slows things down considerably.

Bill Cunningham
01-13-2009, 10:12 PM
I used the first version of dos, right up to the last version. Sometimes dos commands made things so much easier than trying to do the same thing in windoz. Particularly batch file manipulations..Even now, I sometimes try to accomplish things using the cmd: prompt that can't be done with windows, and even some of those won't work anymore..

Tim Bateson
01-14-2009, 9:21 PM
Test Results:
Laptop with dual core - Dual boot Vista & Win7 Beta

Claim - Faster startup and shutdown
Result - Only if you're counting the grains of sand in an hour glass

Claim - Faster processing
Result - Much, MUCH faster then Vista. Also, programs cache much faster - the 2nd time a program loads it's almost instant.

PhotoGrav 3.0 - Runs 10x faster and I did NOT have to set it to XP compatible as I did with Vista.

CoralDrawX3 - Runs faster. No noted problems, yet. Sending a large job to the laser was at least 10-20x faster then the same job with Vista.

Notes: Easy to load and seems like a cross of XP and Vista, but mostly Vista. A lot of the icons have been changed as well as the traditional look and feel of some Windows functions.

Conclusions: Microsoft is going to charge us $$$ for what is really Vista 2.0 However, one day of testing shows it's speed is light years ahead of Vista and very likely XP too.

Addition: My laptop overheats under Vista - after about 20-30min the CPU is around 201F, and at 220F the laptop shuts down. I've been using Win7 Beta for hours now and the CPU hasn't gotten any higher then 181F - currenty at 167F.

Tim Bateson
01-15-2009, 11:16 AM
Photoshop CS - Starts faster then Vista or XP. approx 1-2min in Vista, 10-15sec in Win7 Beta. No noted problems, yet.

Boyd Gathwright
01-15-2009, 11:47 AM
Tim,
.... When you installed you're WIN 7 did you start from scratch (Format the partition or Hardrive and install) or did you do an UpGrade?




Photoshop CS - Starts faster then Vista or XP. approx 1-2min in Vista, 10-15sec in Win7 Beta. No noted problems, yet.

Tim Bateson
01-15-2009, 12:18 PM
I partitioned my current hard drive and did a fresh install. This beta copy expires on 1 August, so I didn't want to over-write my current OS. Also this lets me dual boot so I can do comparisons.
When this beta license expires I'll re-format that partition & give it back to Vista.
As of today, I think I'll setup a shared drive and use Win7 Beta full-time. It is so much faster than Vista - not a little faster, a LOT faster!

Tim Bateson
01-15-2009, 8:51 PM
First Win7 problem - PhotoGrav images will not import into CoralDrawX3. I get an error: Unsupported Tag Value
However any PhotoGrav image processed prior to Win7 imports fine. All other images import fine as well - must be a problem with PhotoGrav. Tried changing the compatibility, but no luck.

I rarely see a need for PhotoGrav, so this isn't a show stopper. It can wait until PhotoGrav has a Win7 fix.

Another notable problem is the icons for CorelDraw show as blank in Windows Explorer. In Vista the icons where a miniature of the contents of page 1. A nice feature that I hope they fix.

Anthony Scira
01-15-2009, 10:12 PM
Wow I must be the only Vista fan here !

I never had problems with the OS. And I must say I like it. I have had it since it launched and could not be happier.

The only thing I lost by using vista was that ability too run a couple older programs that needed to be upgraded.

As far as the XP thing goes XP was not quite as hated as Vista. And now its a great OS. But it has had years of tweaking.

I also believe the great marketing campaign by Apple has not helped public opinion.

Tim Bateson
05-15-2009, 9:45 AM
Update... I have now loaded Windows 7 RC (Release Candidate) 64bit - replacing Windows 7 Beta. This is a free download and is good until June 2010. As with XP, expect some configuration/tweaking to make it run a bit smoother. I would suggest using Mozilla FireFox over MS IExplorer V8 - MS still hasn't caught up. I used MS Office as old as v2000 with no problems - other than Outlook didn't seem to work. Now using MS Live Mail.

It works better then the Beta & far superior to Vista. It's as fast as the Beta, but my overheating GPU problem is now back. I'll have to live with that until it burns up & I'm forced to buy a new laptop.

Both Corel & Photoshop are running great and much faster then they did with Vista. I'm all about saving time. I prefer the more advanced Epilog 32bit driver (used with my XP desktop), but the 64bit driver does everything I need. I don't know if it's Epilog's 64bit driver or the 64bit OS but large jobs transfer to the laser much faster than on my 32bit XP system. Again, I'm all about saving time.

Conclusion - It's not XP, but it's a close 2nd for the best OS they've produced. Still of course not in the same league as Linux.

Rob Patterson
05-15-2009, 3:17 PM
I bought my Dell right before they made Vista mandatory. I also have a separate XP disk for any future machine I need to get, just in case Win7 doesn't work so hot either.

There is a little know feature that allows a person to downgrade your OS license to a previous version. For example: all of our new computers at work come with the Vista sticker on the outside but have XP loaded on them from the manufacturer. (that is the way we order them.)

So if you order a new computer from Dell (or else where) you have the option to downgrade from Vista to XP. So, it is still possible to get a new computer with XP.

Regards.

Michael Simpson Virgina
05-15-2009, 7:43 PM
Windows 7 is going to be a hit I believe because it runs much better on low end machines. On a fast machine you wont see that much of a gain in performance. I think recent PC Mag test show only a 4% gain.

My vista ultimate with SP1 is pretty darn stable so I dont know much about a stability gain. That said I run XP on very small boxes because of Vistas overhead. I recently installed Windows 7 and they run almost as fast as XP and I get the added features of the new OS.

I will agree about Mozilla. Personaly I love its builtin spell checker and the fact that it does not get hyjacked like explorer does.

As for the XP downgrad. Beware not all machines are downgradable due to the lack of drivers available. Many manufactures now only do Vista drivers for some hardware. For example the Intel 500 GPU only supports Vista.

Just downgrading to XP will not get vender specific drivers. In many cases you will have to go out and find them. Some companies like Dell and HP will post some drivers but its getting harder and harder.

Please note that Windows 7 uses Vista drivers so thats a good and bad thing. Its good cause the drivers will be available. Its a bad thing cause there are a lot of bad vista drivers out there.

I think once Windows 7 is release that will be the end of XP. Microsoft will drop all support completly even the embeded support for XP will fall to the wayside. This means the drivers will get harder and harder to find.

Curt Harms
05-15-2009, 9:09 PM
I think once Windows 7 is release that will be the end of XP. Microsoft will drop all support completly even the embeded support for XP will fall to the wayside. This means the drivers will get harder and harder to find.

You can still buy XP home today--most of the netbooks use it. Won't MS continue "extended support" or whatever they call it for a certain number of years even if netbooks start shipping with Windows 6.5 or whatever? It wouldn't make much sense to me for MS to not support XP for desktops & notebooks but continue to support if for netbooks. But then again, Steve Balllmer didn't ask me:p.

Scott M Smith
05-15-2009, 10:49 PM
Win 7 is much better than Vista. I do like Vista, but the first time I messed with Win 7 Beta, I wished it was out already. I am still trying to download RC1. It keeps hanging at 99%.

Tim Bateson
05-15-2009, 10:56 PM
Insure you're downloading it from an MS site. There are other downloads of it available - some containing multiple patches and fixes. Some of these other sites also contain viruses and other issues. It's a gamble.
You'll also need the ability to burn the iso to a DVD.

Scott M Smith
05-16-2009, 2:38 AM
I have been trying to download it from MS. I think the issue with their BITS download tool.

Jack Harper
05-16-2009, 11:35 AM
[QUOTE=Michael Simpson Virgina;1133581]...
Please note that Windows 7 uses Vista drivers so thats a good and bad thing. Its good cause the drivers will be available. Its a bad thing cause there are a lot of bad vista drivers out there.
...QUOTE]

I have not been able to confirm this, but I was told that 7 would also run all the XP drivers. If this is true, then all those companies that never rewrote their drivers for Vista will now be good again. I hope this is true as I still can't get my $2k digital microscope to work on my computer due the manufactures unwillingness to write a Vista driver. Can you say stubborn.

Tim Bateson
05-16-2009, 12:35 PM
...I have not been able to confirm this, but I was told that 7 would also run all the XP drivers. If this is true, then all those companies that never rewrote their drivers for Vista will now be good again. I hope this is true as I still can't get my $2k digital microscope to work on my computer due the manufactures unwillingness to write a Vista driver...

I can't confirm the XP drivers as most everything I have ran under Vista. One exception was PhotoGrav 3.0. It never worked correctly on Vista but does work with Win7. Ironic as I now have little to no use for it.

If anyone knows of something I can download that ran with XP but not Vista, I'll give it a go on Win7. I'm running both 32bit and 64bit Win7.

Dan Hintz
05-16-2009, 10:57 PM
XP will be supported (at least as far as patches and service packs) until 2015, if memory serves. Win7 supports a "virtual" XP mode if your processor supports virtual threading (not all do, so check yours), and this is a windowed environment inside of Win7.

Tim Bateson
06-17-2009, 6:38 PM
First MAJOR Windows 7 issue! In Windows Explorer the Corel graphics are not visible. This makes finds a file a lot more difficult.

Opps.. The file names are transposed. Windows7 is on the left & Vista on the right.

Michael Simpson Virgina
06-18-2009, 9:05 AM
Please note that you also need a mother board that supports virtual threading. If you cant find a option in your bios then there is a good chance it wont work.

Virtual XP is nothing more than the virtual machine system that Microsoft offers on other platforms.

Currently the best and most feature full virtual system available is VMware. The weakest point in most virtual systems is its ability to support much of the host hardware. VMware has an extensive hardware support feature list. The Microsoft system is the worst with Parallels somewhere inbetween.

Michael Simpson Virgina
06-18-2009, 9:10 AM
I also had problems getting Windows 7 to work with my Canon CR2 files. Worked seamlessly with my Nikon NEF files. It will probably take some time for the manufactures to get codecs in place for native support.


I have 14 machines and currently have Windows 7 RC on six of them. I use a lot of EVGA mother boards and the default setup wont install. It complains about the OS. However the drivers are compatible. Just go directly to the driver folders in the setup disk and install from there.

Dave Johnson29
06-18-2009, 9:46 AM
First MAJOR Windows 7 issue! In Windows Explorer the Corel graphics are not visible.


Hi Tim,

Did you Associate the CDR files with Corel?

Windows Explorer
Change the program that opens a type of file

Open the folder that contains the file you want to change.
Right-click the file that you want to change, and then, depending on the type of file, either click Open With or point to Open With and then click Choose Default Program.
Click the program that you want to use to open this file.
Do one of the following:

If you want all files of that type to open in the same software program, select the Always use the selected program to open this kind of file check box, and then click OK.
If you want only that file to open in the software program this one time, clear the Always use the selected program to open this kind of file check box, and then click OK.

Tim Bateson
06-18-2009, 9:56 AM
Dave - Yes they are all associated and open without problems, I just want to view them like in Vista.

Tim Bateson
06-18-2009, 10:28 AM
Please note that you also need a mother board that supports virtual threading. If you cant find a option in your bios then there is a good chance it wont work.

This is the same laptop I have dual loaded Vista/Win7. Note - in Win7 they pulled in a lot of XP functionality. Unfortunately - this is one of those. MY GPU does run a bit cooler & this may be the reason - fewer graphics to keep refreshed.

william kaminsky
06-18-2009, 10:32 AM
Obviously Microsoft have something new that they want to push on everyone. Right now if you buy a new pc you have to have the big mistake installed from the 'get go' (yes Vista). That machine was geared mainly around putting emphasis on creating your own movies and a load of other totally useless stuff like video games. Which incidently is the main reason why most of us have so much RAM. I suppose it will be another stupid operating system that won't be backwards compatible and yet more waste of time! The old expression that still makes me laugh is, "you can save so much time with a computer" phooey.


I sort of agree with what Frank mentioned quite some time ago. The new Operating System is aimed towards the kiddies, not the adults who go to work each day and do not open up the games, the music files etc. But instead sit down and do old fashioned WORK at their assigned seat and on occasion talk on the telephone.

The new O.S. ought to be aimed at Adults (those persons who actually PAY for things) and their needs, instead of the wise range if kiddies. Forget the bells and whistles, and can we get back to a quiet production office again? Aim the new software towards those who buy it, not at who uses it?

Ever ask a kiddie on the street "Can you spare a dime?"



Wm.

Tim Bateson
06-18-2009, 10:41 AM
I'm good with that William, but for all of it's faults (there are a lot of them), Vista/Win7 does make some of the "work" much easier to do. If it were up to me, I'd be using XP Pro, but the laptop I have will not run anything less then Vista. Don't get me started on the conspiracies behind that issue.

I think once Win7 hits the street this October, you'll quickly see Microsoft de-support everything else within a couple years.

william kaminsky
06-18-2009, 10:59 AM
You think M-S will market a home edition (standard Vista) alongside of a Office edition (Windows 7) then? A version with all the bells and whistles (like Vista), and a version that works on laptops or streamlined desktop computers (like Windows 7) ?

I think they tried this begining back on Windows version 3.1 but got complaints. Which version should I buy? Most complainers said. The work edition is cheaper, but the home edition has more to it. Which version should I buy? That was a hot topic on the Sunday afternoon radio talk shows based on computer uses back a few years ago.

We used to say if you got speakers attached to your computer, you do not want to buy the work edition (Windows 7) then. Keep the highpoint features, just eliminate the doo-dads associated with better video movies and surround sound. Streamline it a bit so it also works on lesser O.S based computers, like the laptops, and those of us who do not have speakers screwed into the back side of the computer.

Wm.

John Noell
06-18-2009, 3:11 PM
First MAJOR Windows 7 issue! In Windows Explorer the Corel graphics are not visible. This makes finds a file a lot more difficult.
At least with X4 and Win7, I am seeing them just fine. Are you using X4?

Tim Bateson
06-18-2009, 5:05 PM
I'm using X3. Are you suggesting Win7 File Manager can view the X4 format but not X3? Odd, but we're talking about MS here.:p

John Noell
06-18-2009, 10:06 PM
I have confirmed it. X3: no preview on the icon, X4: preview works. Only Microsoft...(and Corel) would do this.

Tim Bateson
06-19-2009, 6:31 AM
I have confirmed it. X3: no preview on the icon, X4: preview works. Only Microsoft...(and Corel) would do this.

Thanks John