Comments on grizzly table saws.

[Greg Almeida]

I'm looking to get a new saw. I would greatly appreciate any comments on the Grizzly line. I'm interested in the, GO651 10"left w/riving knife, all the ext tables and digital bevel readout.The GO691 10" left w/riving knife and GO623X 10" slider.I have other Grizz tools(G1026 3 H.P.Shaper which by the way took about 3/4" of my middle and ring finger of my right hand last year sorry to say,GO490 jointer.I am very pleased with them,but I always look to you guys for any additional info.

Thanks in advance for your input.

[Bill White]

Griz VS wood lathe and G0444Z TS. Both have been tools to be proud of. Solid, accurate, price/value relationship is excellent, and I kinda like the color in my shop.
Would like to add the closed-base 14" BS if I can.
Bill

[Pete Hay]

I've had the right-tilt Grizzly cabinet saw for four years and am 100% happy with it. Accurate fence, powerful motor, & holds adjustments very well

[Alan DuBoff]

I'm looking to get a new saw. I would greatly appreciate any comments on the Grizzly line.
Not one to be afraid to voice his opinion, I'll offer mine.

Grizzly consistently makes machines with more feature/function for the price than any other maker of similar machines. They do it by cutting costs, on machine parts, manufacturing costs, and using the least expensive shipping.

Lots of stories of damaged Grizzly machines, but as a whole, there are many, many pleased customers, and Grizzly seems to make good on most of their damage, that's a good thing.

I think the Grizzly attracts the people that are looking for the most function/feature at the absolute cheapest prices.

Somehow we are supposed to feel good about our country going down the toilet, as folks continue to buy these offshore built machines that continue to knock a nickel/dime/quarter off the price of the purchase. To me it seems that part of the ability in doing that is in taking ideas that were developed elsewhere, and incorporated into products that are built offshore.

Delta had taken their manufacturing offshore, but recently have brought at least some of it back. I personally hope this trend continues.

I'm not dissing Grizzly for offering more function/feature at the lowest price, it does satisfy a lot of folks. Just that I think we should think about where/how we spend our money before it is too late.

I'm more impressed with the Steel City line of tools in comparison, but don't own any. I do own one Grizzly mini-mill, it's a prime example of function/feature vs. cost. Sure glad I bought it used.

That said, most of my machines are vintage machines built in America. Even by buying used, I keep my $$$s in America, and I rather like that.:)

[Richard Wolf]

As you know first hand, woodworking can be dangerous. Even when you think you are being careful and doing everything right. It's what you don't know that can get you. After woodworking for over 40 years and having two blade strikes, I purchased a Saw Stop. I wish all my machines had the technology of the Saw Stop. I think you can't afford not to have one.

Richard

[Tim Marks]

I'm more impressed with the Steel City line of tools in comparison, but don't own any. I do own one Grizzly mini-mill, it's a prime example of function/feature vs. cost.
Why? Steel City's machinery is either built in the same factory or one across the street. Grizzly innovation exceeds SC innovation IMHO, but I only say that because I can't handle granite tops on TS...

The mini-mill is probably the poorest example of equipment sold by Grizzly, and has been produced unchanged for 10 years or more. That is a very poor frame of reference to grade Grizzly on. You need to look at some of the new equipment that they have come out with in the last 5 years to really appreciate their machinery line.

[Jim O'Dell]

I'm looking to get a new saw. I would greatly appreciate any comments on the Grizzly line. I'm interested in the, GO651 10"left w/riving knife, all the ext tables and digital bevel readout.The GO691 10" left w/riving knife and GO623X 10" slider.I have other Grizz tools(G1026 3 H.P.Shaper which by the way took about 3/4" of my middle and ring finger of my right hand last year sorry to say,GO490 jointer.I am very pleased with them,but I always look to you guys for any additional info.

Thanks in advance for your input.

Greg, you might find some information on the G0651 and the G0623X, but there is nothing on the G0691 yet. In fact, Grizzly doesn't even have it in stock yet. Due in the end of this month, but could be after that if history repeats itself. I got that from an email asking about the trunnions on it vs the 1023. You can, however down load the instruction manual from their site. I've got a copy here on my computer desk to serve as a reminder to save my pennies. Seems to be fairly well written, and/or translated.:rolleyes: For me, it seems to be the best compromise between quality and price. (Sure, I'd rather have the General 650R, but at twice the price, I know that isn't going to happen unless I fall into a bunch of money I don't know about...then it'll be a MM slider anyway. :D) That is, unless the trunnion is inferior. It appears to be a slightly lighter built trunnion than the 1023, but it is hard to tell from the pictures. Plus, those pictures could be pre production ones that aren't representative of the saw at all. That could be good or bad. Time will tell. Good luck with your research. Please post back with what you find, and what you decide. Jim.

[Josh Rudolph]

Greg,

I can't help you with the models you are looking at. However my buddy just bought a 1023 SLX and set it up in my shop. So far so good. We are not finished setting it up completely, but hope to finish it here soon.

Fit and finish wise, we have not encountered anything that has not been corrected by following the manual.

What we have cut so far has been right on. Table was flat using my Lee Valley straightedge.

I have an old 16" Grizzly bandsaw, 9"disc 6" belt sander, and 20" planer. I have not had problems from any. Definitely have been the best bang for the buck.

My dream saw is a SawStop. I will eventually have one. However I do not have the $$$$ to drop on one right now. I am not willing to stop woodworking until I can afford one.

I am 100% for buying US made when it is a smart choice. Since most all saws are offshore (except for the new UNI), you may as well get the best bang for the buck.

I would love to have a shop full of the best rated machines, but I don't make a living with tools and I am far from being independently wealthy. So I buy what I consider to be the best deal for the money I have allocated. Any more it seems to be always pointing to Grizzly. (Steel City has been on my wish list at one time or another.)

Good luck with your decision. I don't think you can go wrong with a Grizzly.

Josh

[Chris Ricker]

Greg;
I have owned and used the GO651 since July '08.
While I cannot speak of other brands since I upgraded from a 1986 Buffalo Contractors saw, I can say that I think the 651 is a superior saw which meets and exceeds all of my expectations. I guess the proof is in the pudding, I have ripped 8/4 cherry and walnut without a whimper from the saw and it remains accurate and square it this day. What more can you expect from a table saw? I have not had one problem with it and don't expect to.
A lot can be said about buying American and it is a very valid point which I believe in however, at the time I purchased my saw, there were no other options with new saws.
That being said, if I were to do it all over again, I would certainly look at and feel the Delta and Grizzly and make my choice from there.
As far as I'm concerned, The 651 is a outstanding piece of machinery which I plan on using for decades to come.

[Alan DuBoff]

Why? Steel City's machinery is either built in the same factory or one across the street.
I've never been to the factories, so not sure. My only gage is by the perception I get as a potential customer.

Grizzly innovation exceeds SC innovation IMHO, but I only say that because I can't handle granite tops on TS...
Where I kinda like the idea of having granite, and see that as innovative. Grizzly has a bunch of features they added to their saws that look like they borrowed the ideas from European saws.

The mini-mill is probably the poorest example of equipment sold by Grizzly, and has been produced unchanged for 10 years or more.
Actually it serves my point well. The mini-mill is not manufactured by Grizzly, as most of their machines aren't. It seems many of the same machines are re-badged as various machines, could even be the same ones that Steel City uses. That is not a very innovative industry, IMO.

I am not impressed with price point alone, probably why I don't have Grizzly machines in my shop. The mini-mill served it's purpose for me, until I could get a real mill. But there are a lot of people that do shop on price point as being the biggest concern. For many of those, Grizzly offers the function/features to make them comfortable in spending their $$$s. We all get to vote with our pocket book, however we spend our $$$s.

[Mark McGee]

I have had my G0651 for 6 months and have no problems with it. Here's some information on it.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=88178

[Lee Koepke]

I have the Grizzly 1023SL and its been great to me.

I have lots of opinions on overseas manufacturing, and dont really want to venture into that arena. Lets just say, the manufacturing part is a pretty small part of the puzzle. Once you bring in all the shipping, distribution, sales, service, proffesionals, buildings, etc. the overall economic impact is much wider than the manufacturing.

[Sonny Edmonds]

... which by the way took about 3/4" of my middle and ring finger of my right hand last year sorry to say,
...but I always look to you guys for any additional info.

Thanks in advance for your input.


Uhh, no, no input from me thanks. :rolleyes:
I still have all of my fingers. So I think I'll keep them out of your input.
(Though I did saw half way threw my left pinky before I stopped on my bandsaw once.)
You can provide your own input. :confused:

[scott spencer]

...
Grizzly consistently makes machines with more feature/function for the price than any other maker of similar machines. They do it by cutting costs, on machine parts, manufacturing costs, and using the least expensive shipping.

...

Hi again Alan! I'm not sure that the above statement is accurate (at least regarding table saws), though for an outsider like me it's hard to judge what, how, and why Grizzly does what they do. Compared to their import competitors like Jet, GI, Steel City, some PM, and some Delta, etc., Grizzly cuts costs of their machines by leaving out the middleman and offering product directly from their 3 showrooms as opposed to using a dealer network, not by using cheaper materials than their competitors. AFAIK, the quality of parts, materials, and design are very comparable to other Asian imports, but compared to top shelf tools like the Canadian made General and US made PM machines, the materials used by Grizzly and other imports are definitely cheaper in many cases.

[Alan DuBoff]

AFAIK, the quality of parts, materials, and design are very comparable to other Asian imports, but compared to top shelf tools like the Canadian made General and US made PM machines, the materials used by Grizzly and other imports are definitely cheaper in many cases.
I think we are in agreement here Scott. Most all the Asian machines are good enough for all hobbyist. Much of the Asian machines are made in the same factories most likely with different badges on them. Not much innovative about that, IMO. Although I have never been to or seen one of the factories.

I am slowly getting rid of Asian machines in my shop. I'm pretty close, only have a band saw and a drill press, both Jet.

[Alex Shanku]

I am slowly getting rid of Asian machines in my shop. I'm pretty close, only have a band saw and a drill press, both Jet.


Same here. I only have to replace my planer and drill press. Most likely with a Parks or Powermatic 12" and a Delta 14" DP.

[Alan DuBoff]

Same here. I only have to replace my planer and drill press. Most likely with a Parks or Powermatic 12" and a Delta 14" DP.
I picked up a Parks planer and have a motor for it, but need a switch/starter for it, as it is a 3 phase motor. I do have an old walker turner motor, come to think of it. I might be able to use that with the Parks.

I passed on a bandsaw a while back as it had babbit, and now sorry I did, but maybe a nice ball bearing model will pop up...that would be preferred.

I'd love to have a Clausing drill press, they made some excellent drill presses with nice heavy tables. I've seen some nice Powermatic drill presses though, they made some decent ones. As with most old iron, availability often dictates what one ends up with. ;)

[JohnMorgan of Lititz]

Same here. I only have to replace my planer and drill press. Most likely with a Parks or Powermatic 12" and a Delta 14" DP.


If I can ask, why are you guys getting rid of your Asian machines? I'm not big on Asian anything either, I'm more for European stuff. That's one of the main reasons I was looking to Laguna for my first J & P. Then i found out their "Platinum" line is ALL made in freakin' Asia. At that point, its tough to spend a grand more for a J&P than the Grizzly...for what, the Laguna name? b.s.

If i were making money with wood working, I'd certainly be looking to Euro stuff. I'm not quite convinced "Made in the USA" is all that great either. Don't get me wrong, I'm probably more patriotic and proud of the US than the next guy, but just because its made here doesn't mean its of any better quality - unfortunately.

Greg - don't cut corners and cheap out, just buy the best you can afford and be satisfied.

[Alan DuBoff]

If I can ask, why are you guys getting rid of your Asian machines? I'm not big on Asian anything either, I'm more for European stuff. That's one of the main reasons I was looking to Laguna for my first J & P. Then i found out their "Platinum" line is ALL made in freakin' Asia. At that point, its tough to spend a grand more for a J&P than the Grizzly...for what, the Laguna name? b.s.
I started to replace my machines as most of the modern machines made in Asia are inferior to better quality industrial machines that were made in America from the early part of the 20th century up until about 1960 or so.

I'm not making money with woodworking, it is a hobby, yet I prefer to have industrial type machines, and they can be had in vintage form.

If i were making money with wood working, I'd certainly be looking to Euro stuff. I'm not quite convinced "Made in the USA" is all that great either. Don't get me wrong, I'm probably more patriotic and proud of the US than the next guy, but just because its made here doesn't mean its of any better quality - unfortunately.
I'm looking for vintage machines though, primarily 3-phase machines that are tossed out at pennies on the dollar, in many cases hauled off to the scrap yard. Saving these old machines is a treat, IMO. :)

These industrial type machines are a great value on today's market. Certainly not for everyone, but for those of us that don't mind bringing these beasts back to life, there's plenty of it left inside of them in most cases. I paid $600 for a 5HP direct drive table saw, $125 for a 1/2 HP 6" Jointer, $250 for a 12" planer...these are all excellent examples of industrial quality machines that can be cleaned up and produce excellent results. All of these have older, heavy, cast iron tables. These were machines made to run in production/manufacturing environments for the most part.

I also have a few old metalworking machines, a Nichols Horizontal Hand Miller from the 40s and South Bend 9A Lathe from the 40s to name two.

[JohnMorgan of Lititz]

Gotcha, Alan. I sort of read into your post that you were swapping for newer machinery.

There is no doubt the old-school US stuff is much better built than current asian machinery...

A few years back I found this local guy that was into everything - realestate, auctioning, all kinds of stuff. One thing he also did was drive all over creation buying "junk" old machinery and cleaned it up to sell it. I passed on two old Unisaw's because I didn't like the fence. ??? Yeah, a couple years later I became less ignorant and realized my mistake. :) Shoulda, woulda, coulda....life goes on.

[Karl Brogger]

There is no doubt the old-school US stuff is much better built than current asian machinery...


Hate to tell ya, its better built than the most of the current north american machinery, that includes the model 66 as well.

[JohnMorgan of Lititz]

Hate to tell ya, its better built than the most of the current north american machinery, that includes the model 66 as well.


Preaching to the choir...Not much out there beats the old iron. But, let's face it, for the hobby guy or even the small 1 or 2 man shops, the asian stuff can suffice...for certain machines.

[Bill White]

I laud the never ending quest for excellence as much as anyone, but, how much more accuracy is really needed? I need a good 90 degree cut. I get it. Same with a 45. I rip the board. I don't mic each end once the fence is set.
My TS table is within .003 of flatness. Do I need to get it to .001?
Of course if we have a monsoon (like this week) all bets are off anyhoo.
I also like my old stuff (tools that is). I get a great deal of enjoyment fixin' up a quality hand-me-down.
Bill

[Karl Brogger]

I'm more concerned with the quality of components, and the reliability of the machine than anything else. Accuracy is easy when everything is tight and quality.

[Alan DuBoff]

Gotcha, Alan. I sort of read into your post that you were swapping for newer machinery.

There is no doubt the old-school US stuff is much better built than current asian machinery...
Much of it is, but sometimes there are various things to consider, like the time it might take to get the machines going, the time to clean the rust off of them (many are covered in it), and sometimes having to fabricate a part. Rescuing some of this old machinery is not for everyone. But for those that are attracted to it can get some mighty fine machines at very reasonable prices.

A few years back I found this local guy that was into everything - realestate, auctioning, all kinds of stuff. One thing he also did was drive all over creation buying "junk" old machinery and cleaned it up to sell it. I passed on two old Unisaw's because I didn't like the fence. ??? Yeah, a couple years later I became less ignorant and realized my mistake. :) Shoulda, woulda, coulda....life goes on.
Those unisaws are dangerous, there´s a guy running around rabid at the mouth trying to figure out if he has the first unisaw shipped, he fell over the edge...maybe it´s a good thing you didn´t like the fence. ;)

[JohnMorgan of Lititz]

Those unisaws are dangerous, there´s a guy running around rabid at the mouth trying to figure out if he has the first unisaw shipped, he fell over the edge...maybe it´s a good thing you didn´t like the fence. ;)


Now that's hilarious! There certainly are guys out there that are really, shall we say zealous, about old tool restoration. Uni's tend to fall into the "cult" category I think.

[Alex Shanku]

If I can ask, why are you guys getting rid of your Asian machines? I'm not big on Asian anything either, I'm more for European stuff. That's one of the main reasons I was looking to Laguna for my first J & P. Then i found out their "Platinum" line is ALL made in freakin' Asia. At that point, its tough to spend a grand more for a J&P than the Grizzly...for what, the Laguna name? b.s.

If i were making money with wood working, I'd certainly be looking to Euro stuff. I'm not quite convinced "Made in the USA" is all that great either. Don't get me wrong, I'm probably more patriotic and proud of the US than the next guy, but just because its made here doesn't mean its of any better quality - unfortunately.

Greg - don't cut corners and cheap out, just buy the best you can afford and be satisfied.


Well, to tie into what Alan has already said, there are a few reasons. In no particular order, really. I like the quality of the old machines. The engineering/design/toolmaking process 50+ years ago was amazing. I like cast iron (high quality cast iron). These tools worked in a production environment for decades and are still kicking; they are tough and have a proven track record. There is a pride, not unlike finishing a woodworking project, you feel when you complete your machine restoration and put it into use in your shop. It is also a learning experience for those, like me, who are fascinated my machinery. Also, you can often find/restore a machine for a SMALL fraction of the price of something new. There are other reasons why I favor the old American machinery, but they all tie back in together.

Anyway, sorry for the lack of paragraph structure, I was just rambling what came to mind.

[JohnMorgan of Lititz]

Well, to tie into what Alan has already said, there are a few reasons. In no particular order, really. I like the quality of the old machines. The engineering/design/toolmaking process 50+ years ago was amazing. I like cast iron (high quality cast iron). These tools worked in a production environment for decades and are still kicking; they are tough and have a proven track record. There is a pride, not unlike finishing a woodworking project, you feel when you complete your machine restoration and put it into use in your shop. It is also a learning experience for those, like me, who are fascinated my machinery. Also, you can often find/restore a machine for a SMALL fraction of the price of something new. There are other reasons why I favor the old American machinery, but they all tie back in together.

Anyway, sorry for the lack of paragraph structure, I was just rambling what came to mind.


That's as good of reasoning as anything. I love machinery too - my wife tells me I have too many hobbies as it is, so I have to pick and choose my time. Hunting season, to reloading, to sport bikes (track days, street) to woodworking...somehow i have a job in there too...:confused:

Don't worry about paragraph structure - that's for soft skill/english majors. :) I'm a comp. science/engineering guy so I'm lucky I can even carry a reasonable conversation - be it this way or in person. :)

[Don Bullock]

As you know first hand, woodworking can be dangerous. Even when you think you are being careful and doing everything right. It's what you don't know that can get you. After woodworking for over 40 years and having two blade strikes, I purchased a Saw Stop. I wish all my machines had the technology of the Saw Stop. I think you can't afford not to have one.

Richard

While I haven't had the blade strikes that Richard has suffered nor his extensive experience in the woodworking shop. For me buying a SawStop was a "no brainer." I, for one, truly appreciate people like Richard who share their extensive experience here on Sawmill Creek and are willing to share their experiences with us. If people like him, Per and Mark Singer have SawStos in their shops, someone like me with far less experience and skill truly needs to seriously consider getting one.

Yes, I have a Grizzly G0490 and like it, but if SawStop had a jointer I would have looked into buying a jointer from them. Before anyone jumps on this post who thinks I shouldn't have spent so much and I'll forget how to use it safely, may I add that the SawStop has made me much more aware of safety with all my machines than before I bought it. No, they are not for everyone, but for me it was the best choice.

[Scott Coffelt]

I've had a 1023S for probably 10 years now, it has been a work horse. As for Grizzly machines, I've been pleased with everything I have bought. I did have some issues with a disk sander early, but they took care of it.

If I was in the market today for a TS, I'd be looking hard at a sawstop. That added safety is a big factor.

[Chris Padilla]

I bought a 1023Z from Griz in 2000 and like Scott's, it's been a workhorse and done just fine.

SS or the PM2k would get a hard look from me should my Griz die but I'm just betting that it won't happen...for a long...long...long time.... :)

[Rod Sheridan]

Most of the machinery in my hobby shop was General (made in Canada).

However recently I replaced a General 8 inch jointer and 14 inch planer with a Hammer A3-31 12 inch jointer/planer.

The Hammer cost considerably less than the two General machines it replaced, works better, and I have a 12 inch jointer instead of an 8 inch.

Now I'm contemplating replacing my General TS and Shaper with a Felder combo.

The General equipment is top notch, however the innovation and features are decades behind the European machines, and half a century behind in safety features.

Many people, including some on this forum worship at the altar of old iron machinery. While it was well made, people forget that it was industrial machinery, and had eye popping prices. Check out a new Northfield jointer, A Felder Format jointer, or an SCMI class shaper if you want real machinery with prices to match.

The old machinery also didn't have the safety features available on some of the new machinery.

I personally have never been satisfied with the quality of the lower end imported machinery, however to each their own.

My suggestion would to buy more quality than you need at present, and avoid dissapointment or equipment replacement costs in the future.

Regards, Rod.

P.S. I do own one American made piece of equipment, an Oneida cyclone that I'm very pleased with.