CHATTER Aaaarrgh !! Help ?

[hank dekeyser]

Hi guys,

I'm newish to turning, but been making flat stuff all my life. Finally decided to get a lathe and make some round stuff.
For starters I picked up a Vega 12x 36 used for cheap. seems to have very low hours on it (original belts, pulleys hardly shiny, no scratches, etc) so I bought some of the famous Harbor Freight "Windsor Design" chisels, made a sharpening jig , built a stand for the lathe out of 2-1/2" round stock and bolted the bugger to the cement (yes its plumb and level)

I started turning some new handles, first couple went well. (Had to get at least one long handle, them short handles are flippin' scary) I'm no newb to sharpening chisels so yes I am using sharp chisels.(and keeping them sarp) I noticed that when I turn a bowl I'm getting chatter sometimes when I take too much at once. (I turned my 3/4" gouge into a fingernail, gotta get a 1/2" one)
The other thing is between centers, a 20" 1-1/2" spindle will chatter like crazy on me no matter which tool I use, depth of cut, direction of cut, etc. Close to the head is quieter, about 5" from the head to the tail chatters most of the way. What the hell is going on ? I'm getting pithed. Kinda' odd how suddenly I have a chatter problem ? Oh yeah, soft maple spindle, and some kind of firewood knotty stuff on the bowl problem.

Any ideas ? I'm kinda' new to lathes so I hope it's just user error. I'm going to try my Dad's lathe w/ the maple (and my chisels) to see if it's the wood or me, or ??

I heat my shop w/ a wood stove and ever since I got a lathe I seem to be carrying in twice as much wood as I'm burning. Every day lately I bring a new "round thingy" in the house. She asks "what kind of wood is that" Ummm firewood

Thanks

[David Christopher]

Hank, sounds like to me that you may need a spindle stedy, also how much presure are you applying from the tailstock, if to much it might bowing the piece a bit hope this helps happy turning


Dave

[Steve Schlumpf]

Hank - could you post some photos of the grinds on the chisels? I ask because you mentioned you turned the 3/4" into a fingernail grind. If that is the harbor freight gouge - I hope that is not what you are using for your bowl gouge! The 3/4" gouge from HF is a spindle gouge and while it will cut the wood it is not designed to handle the stresses placed on it when turning a bowl and could break on you! Difference between bowl and spindle gouges is the bowl gouge is round stock - spindle uses a tang to secure it to the handle.

Chatter...... multiple causes from grind on the tool, type of wood, green or dry wood, pressure on tailstock, speed, etc. Assuming all of the above are not the cause, then I would think that you are riding the bevel with to much pressure. Once the cut in the wood has been established, you use the bevel of the gouge as a guide. If you apply to much pressure (push to hard) the wood will deflect - especially on the long spindle. Doesn't take much to create a ripple effect on the turning! General rule is sharp tools, light cuts and the appropriate speed.

The more info you can provide as to conditions when you are turning will help narrow the cause down. Hope that helps some.

[Jeff Nicol]

Hank, You are not the first nor will you be the last to experience this phenomenom! What happens is most of the time is either the presentation of the tool to the wood or a defect in the wood. So to address the wood with a sharp tool the bevel should be placed lightly on the roughed out blank and then ease the cutting edge in until it begins to cut. Once the edge is cutting you can tip it in a little more to find the best depth of cut for the tool. To much pressure straight into the wood and not along the axis of the blank will cause the chatter. So when the tool begins to cut make sure to keep the pressure running with the length and not into the center. This assures the tool is doing the work and not you!

So that being said, if there is a knot or some figured grain in the blank, this wood cuts defferently than the rest of the wood. The tool will react to the hard and soft wood and can cause the tool to chatter. But it still comes back to the amount of pressure directed straight on compared to the pressure put along the horizontal axis. If to much straight on the tools is cutting deeper but when it hits the knot or harder grain the tool will bounce and cause the chatter.

So keep on practicing and it will come together, patience and light cuts will help you master each tool!

Have fun any enjoy the Vortex of woodturning!

Jeff

[Keith Christopher]

Hank,

Does it chatter even when round ? If so you may be putting too much pressure on the tool to get it to cut.


Keith

[Bernie Weishapl]

I have to agree with Keith. The biggest problem I had when starting was I was putting to much pressure trying to make a cut. Found out sharp tools cut down on this. Also if you have to much pressure from your tailstock that can cause chatter. If your spindles are very long and all the above is ok a spindle steady may be in order.

[Jim Kountz]

I have to agree with Keith. The biggest problem I had when starting was I was putting to much pressure trying to make a cut. Found out sharp tools cut down on this. Also if you have to much pressure from your tailstock that can cause chatter. If your spindles are very long and all the above is ok a spindle steady may be in order.

Ditto, go back to last year and look at some of my first turning posts. I was getting vibration, chatter, couldnt get the tools to do their thing. Well they were doing as well as they could but with my own crappy presentation I was getting well, crappy results. A lighter touch, a sharper tool and a year later, its all coming together nicely!! Give it some time and practice, If your like me you will be out there doing it one day and suddenly you'll go "thats what everyone has been trying to tell me" when the gouges cut like butter and the skews just glide across the workpiece. Stay with it and good luck, the guys here are happy to help and you WILL learn alot from them.

[Wilbur Pan]

Just to pile on ;), one of the best turning lessons I had taught me that at least 95% of turning problems can be fixed with sharper tools and a lighter cut.

[Reed Gray]

A rule of thumb for spindles is a ratio of 10 to 1. For a 10 inch long spindle, if you don't want any vibration/chatter/whipping, it needs to be about 1 inch thick. There are tricks to doing thinner ones, that involve a spindle steady, or light hand pressure on the wood, using your hand as a steady. At 20 inches and 1 1/2 inch thick, you will get some vibration. Too much pressure on the tail stock can contribute to this as well, more so on thinner pieces. Get it snug, but not TIGHT. On a piece that is thick enough, you can still get some vibration, those nice spiral marks on the wood. This is more tecnique, using a sharp tool, and gentle pressure. You have to go back to where the wood is smooth, and try to remove the spirals as they start. Some times, especially when you are just starting, it is easier to sand them out. Do remove the tool rest before sanding, or at least make sure it is away from the wood. The abrasive can grab and take your fingers down between the wood and tool rest. DAMHIKT.
robo hippy

[hank dekeyser]

Thanks for all the input. This morning I had at it again, loosened the tailstock a bit, and cupped the backside w/ my left fingers, problem solved for now. I turned 2 more handles and all was well.
Yes I am using the HF 3/4" as my bowl gouge, I built a oneway knock of fingernail guide and turned it into a fingernail gouge. Mainly just to do it, (and get a bowl gouge) but it turns out that I really like it aside from it being a bit wide it works very well for outside work. Managed to get quite a few catches on some of my firewood turnings (tang loosened up a few times already and I managed to bend the chisel at the handle) Right or wrong I run in reverse to do the insides, I probly am running a bit fast as well but I like it that way (fast that is) about 1200 rpm. It's weird I'll be doing crappy , get a catch - get pissed off - (cuz it always happens when I'm just about done w/ the main shaping) then dive in and holy cow it's like my chisel is possessed and know's what to do w/ out much effort on my part.
At any rate I had a couple chunks fly in my face already (time to use the cage) Time to pony up for a good bowl gouge. I'll post pix in a couple days of my crap, and the homemade toolrests, and sharpening jigs.
Them HF chisel work but too many catches turns 'em into bent scrap iron (my 1/4 gouge works around corners now) tee hee.

My latest mout in the chuck is a 10 pound scabbed over branch that I salvaged from the firewood pile, chucked on the scab w/ face plate- I need to redo the mount cuz it loosened up and gets mad when I try to hollow it out. Time for a secondary faceplate w/ spacers to get a better grip and stable mount on it.
Yee haaaa- Oh yeah, I now know that its nit my lathe making it chatter cuz the 10 # blank was way off center and if the lathe wasnt bolted down it would have walked out the door.

Thanks again guys

[Bob Hallowell]

Yes I am using the HF 3/4" as my bowl gouge, I built a oneway knock of fingernail guide and turned it into a fingernail gouge.

Hank, If it was me I would not turn any more bowls with that gouge. We have heard way to many horror stories about roughing gouges breaking at the tang and pieces of metal flying. If you need to turn bowls before you get a bowl gouge use a scraper.

Bob