Best Jointer?

[Ed Gibbons]

Looking to buy and 8 inch jointer. Any recommendations?

What about spiral head cutters?

Thanks,
Ed

[Jim Chilenski]

Ed,

While this is not exactly what you are looking for the current issue of Wood Magazine has a review of 6" jointers and they also discuss the spiral cutter heads.

They did praise the spriral heads for their ease in changing blades. But said that in all but birds eye maple they got a better quality of cut from a standard straight blade jointer head. I know that goes against the experience of what a lot of users on this page have found. I have only used the standard straight blades and have yet to try a spiral cutting head so I don't have a valid opinion.

Good luck in your search.

Jim

[Paul Greathouse]

Ed

I'll try to remember to give you an update next week on the spiral head. I've got a Grizzly 12" with spiral head due for delivery this Friday but I'm working the weekend so I won't get to set it up until next week.

I looked at the price difference in the 8" and the 12" and figured what the heck, if I'm going to spend the money I may as well get something that I won't have to do a size upgrade on later.

[Larry Edgerton]

Whatever one I have.:)

I am not sold on the spiral cutterhead. I see no problem at all working with the finish that my conventional cutterhead provides. I do use Esta knives so I can change them quickly, and this is of more importance than anything else to me.

My jointer is set up correctly, and with a fresh set of blades the workpiece sucks to the table until the blades get a few little microscratches. To me I can't see any need, or even the possibility of a cut being any better than that. Need better than that, get a hand plane out.

You didn't specify a price range?

[John Callahan]

Larry, do you run the HSS or Kobalt knives ......... was curious how much better knife life is with the Kobalt and if there's any difference in the quality of the cut between the two and also are they easy to change as they say? Spiral heads seem to get good marks from most everyone but I have some lingering doubts. On my old Mak 2040 I had both HSS and carbide knives- the carbide did last far longer but the quality of cut wasn't as good as the HSS knives.

[Pat Germain]

I'm very happy with my ShopFox 8" jointer. It has built-in mobility and parallelogram beds. It has standard blades, but cuts very nicely. I paid $800 for it new, which I thought was a very good value. It's a clone of the Grizzly 8" jointer.

Be advised an 8" jointer will likely require a 220V power source. It's well worth it. Almost every time I use my jointer I'm reminded how it was a good idea to follow the advice I got on SMC and go with an 8".

Happy shopping!

[JohnMorgan of Lititz]

Ed,

I just realized you're the same Ed i PM'd. :)

I wish I could compare the spiral to straight knife cutter for you, but this is my first jointer and I went with the spiral for one real reason: no monkeying around with knife setting. I helped a buddy do his 6" a couple years back and I HATED it. I'm an imperfect perfectionist, so trying to get the knives set perfectly would just eat away at me and I would wast a lot of time messing with it. No fuss or muss with spiral heads.

The spiral is certainly quieter, leaves a nice finish - but the finish still needs a final sanding or smoothing plane, its certainly not a "finish" quality cut IMO.

I had some hesitation about Grizzly, but after seeing their operation, the machines themselves, etc., I'm pretty well sold on the brand.

Good luck.

John

[Montgomery Scott]

If you want the best jointer you should buy the Northfield 8". It's a very solid, made in the USA, machine.

http://www.northfieldwoodworking.com/jointers/medium.htm

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Not intending to rile up the natives, but I wonder about the objectivity of spiral cutterhead gloats here. If they are an upgrade on an existing machine, how dull where the blades on the standard cutter? If they are on a new machine, is the machine its self allowing better cuts? Pretty hard to be objective without a bunch of fiddling around changing knives and cutter heads.

Another thing, to get a standard knived jointer to have the same cutting geometry as a spiral head jointer, can't you just skew the work? I do believe that spiral heads are quieter, but I'm still not convienced that they cut better.

As for best jointer this equation usually works well, bigger=better.

[whit richardson]

check out Grizzly, they have gotten very good reviews in the woodworking mags last year or three.

[Jim Kountz]

I love my Grizz jointer w/spiral cutterhead, are there better ones? Im sure there is but they come with a premium. You just have to factor in the features you want and how much you're willing to pay for them. Powermatics and Jet are good too but again they cost alot more. The Delta DJ-20 is a proven performer and has been around for a long time really couldnt go wrong with it either I guess.

[Loren Blount]

Ed I have a grizzly 8" with a spiral cutter-head. I had a grizzly 6" before that with standard knives. They both produce a very good finish. The main plus for the spiral cutter-head is the indexed carbide knives. Ive had mine for 2 years and have only rotated the knives one quarter turn. They are also quieter. The one complaint I have withe the grizzly I have now is the fence wants to creep out of square slightly after using it for awhile. If I was going to replace it I would probably look at the steel city with a spiral cutter-head and granite fence.

Loren

[Joe Jensen]

Not intending to rile up the natives, but I wonder about the objectivity of spiral cutterhead gloats here. If they are an upgrade on an existing machine, how dull where the blades on the standard cutter? If they are on a new machine, is the machine its self allowing better cuts? Pretty hard to be objective without a bunch of fiddling around changing knives and cutter heads.

Another thing, to get a standard knived jointer to have the same cutting geometry as a spiral head jointer, can't you just skew the work? I do believe that spiral heads are quieter, but I'm still not convienced that they cut better.

As for best jointer this equation usually works well, bigger=better.

First, I don't think I'm riled up :)
I have 30 years of serious hobby experience. I had a PM60 jointer and a 12" PM100 planer with straight knives for 17 years. I am a fanatic for setting knives and tuning my tools. I was able to get the planer knives within a +/- .0005" meaning all three knives cut within a .001" window. That would take me about 4 hours with a dial indicator. Magnaset and other gadgets wouldn't even get close as the knife lock screws would move the area of the knife where they tighten by anwhere from .000" to .003" each time I tightened. With the planer knives fresh from a professional sharpening shop, and adjusted as I discussed above, I could get amazing resultes on straight grain for a few hundred board feet. I now have a Byrd head in the planer and the cut is not quite as good as the fresh knives, but 2 years later, the cut is better than after a few hundred feet on the fresh knives. Based on my experience with the $1000 planer head, I upgraded from a Tersa head in the PM60 jointer to a Byrd head. I've since sold the PM60 and I bought a 12" SCMI jointer. In the renovation of the SCMI, I put in another expensive Byrd head.

One of the concerns folks have with the Byrd heads is the scalloping of the surface. There is scalloping. But, if you take a board straight off a planer with well adjusted knives, you can't go straight to finish there either. At least with my planer, there were very small (maybe 1/32" spaced knife marks) from the straight knives. The Byrd leaves different marks, but no more difficult to handle than the knife marks from the old planer. I don't think there is a powered jointer or planer that you can go from machine to finish.

In my experience here are the benefits
1) No more tearout
2) longer life (I am getting maybe 10X the life, not sure as I don't have to rotate cutters yet or any time soon as far as I can see. Also, I get 4 sets of edges on the carbide inserts.
3) No more adjusting knives. Even though I'm an engineer and I enjoy working on my tools, I was DONE with setting knives.
4) Quiet

The only downside I see in real world use is the up front cost.

I am thrilled, but as they say, you have to pay to play.

One last observation. The scallops on the planer were less than the PM60 jointer. The new SCMI jointer has nearly invisible scallops. I wonder if the curved geometry is optimized for larger dia cutterheads. The PM60 cutterhead was about 2.5" in dia. The PM100 planer is around 3", and the SCMI is almost 4". I'd like to hear from some users of the new Byrd heads on the lunch box planers.

[Larry Edgerton]

Larry, do you run the HSS or Kobalt knives ......... was curious how much better knife life is with the Kobalt and if there's any difference in the quality of the cut between the two and also are they easy to change as they say? Spiral heads seem to get good marks from most everyone but I have some lingering doubts. On my old Mak 2040 I had both HSS and carbide knives- the carbide did last far longer but the quality of cut wasn't as good as the HSS knives.

I use the Cobalt. They are sharp out of the box, but I still put on a very slight micro bevel with a 6000 grit stone. About 10-15 minutes to change three knives cleaning the ways/jibs. I feel they are a good value.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

First, I don't think I'm riled up :)
I have 30 years of serious hobby experience. I had a PM60 jointer and a 12" PM100 planer with straight knives for 17 years. I am a fanatic for setting knives and tuning my tools. I was able to get the planer knives within a +/- .0005" meaning all three knives cut within a .001" window. That would take me about 4 hours with a dial indicator. Magnaset and other gadgets wouldn't even get close as the knife lock screws would move the area of the knife where they tighten by anwhere from .000" to .003" each time I tightened. With the planer knives fresh from a professional sharpening shop, and adjusted as I discussed above, I could get amazing resultes on straight grain for a few hundred board feet. I now have a Byrd head in the planer and the cut is not quite as good as the fresh knives, but 2 years later, the cut is better than after a few hundred feet on the fresh knives. Based on my experience with the $1000 planer head, I upgraded from a Tersa head in the PM60 jointer to a Byrd head. I've since sold the PM60 and I bought a 12" SCMI jointer. In the renovation of the SCMI, I put in another expensive Byrd head.

One of the concerns folks have with the Byrd heads is the scalloping of the surface. There is scalloping. But, if you take a board straight off a planer with well adjusted knives, you can't go straight to finish there either. At least with my planer, there were very small (maybe 1/32" spaced knife marks) from the straight knives. The Byrd leaves different marks, but no more difficult to handle than the knife marks from the old planer. I don't think there is a powered jointer or planer that you can go from machine to finish.

In my experience here are the benefits
1) No more tearout
2) longer life (I am getting maybe 10X the life, not sure as I don't have to rotate cutters yet or any time soon as far as I can see. Also, I get 4 sets of edges on the carbide inserts.
3) No more adjusting knives. Even though I'm an engineer and I enjoy working on my tools, I was DONE with setting knives.
4) Quiet

The only downside I see in real world use is the up front cost.

I am thrilled, but as they say, you have to pay to play.

One last observation. The scallops on the planer were less than the PM60 jointer. The new SCMI jointer has nearly invisible scallops. I wonder if the curved geometry is optimized for larger dia cutterheads. The PM60 cutterhead was about 2.5" in dia. The PM100 planer is around 3", and the SCMI is almost 4". I'd like to hear from some users of the new Byrd heads on the lunch box planers.


Good stuff Joe. The spiral head I was thinking of was not the indexable insert type. I certainly agree that the use of inserts is a good idea. I have several shaper cutters that use them to good effect as well.

I think the key to this ongoing debate is that no matter what you use for a cutter, it will not yield a finish grade surface. Tearout then really becomes the only issue. I posted before, just skew the work, but on further thought, I use a 16" jointer, so thats easy for me to say, but not nearly so easy to do on an 8" machine. There are other ways to help tearout, but I agree that on a narrower jointer, a Byrd head would offer an advantage. Same with a planer.

As you said, cost is the factor. Is it worth it to you to spend the bigger bucks? $1000 may even buy you an upgrade to a 12" machine? I suppose we all have a different answer to that one.

[Joe Jensen]

As you said, cost is the factor. Is it worth it to you to spend the bigger bucks? $1000 may even buy you an upgrade to a 12" machine? I suppose we all have a different answer to that one.

I'm lucky, :cool: was able to get an SCMI 12" jointer on auction this summer for $750. Added the Byrd head, ($750 thanks to MS Cash Back), and a VFD. Fantastic jointer.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

I'm lucky, :cool: was able to get an SCMI 12" jointer on auction this summer for $750. Added the Byrd head, ($750 thanks to MS Cash Back), and a VFD. Fantastic jointer.

WOW! That was a deal! VFD adds a new dimension, dosen't it:D

[Curt Harms]

If you want the best jointer you should buy the Northfield 8". It's a very solid, made in the USA, machine.

http://www.northfieldwoodworking.com/jointers/medium.htm

and starting at the low low price of $11,500:eek:

[Gary Herrmann]

I don't think anyone has mentioned it, so you might consider the General (Canadian) model 480. I put a Byrd head on mine. Fabulous jointer. I've also used PMs that were very good.

[John Thompson]

I have run straight knives for 36 years and have no plans to upgrade as they give a fine cut. The exception is maple where the spiral heads I have used did a better job on that species. There might be a few exoctics that fall into the same category.. I cannot say as I have not worked with all the exoctics.

I simply use a hand plane on the rare occasions I use maple (as right now on a small decorative box) as I personally like the cut on straight knives better. As far as the PITA of changing knives... I just changed a set of them. Took around 9 minutes approximately on my jointer.

I can't say that about previous straight knife jointers I have owned but I can on my current 8" Steel City model. The head has index pins built on it which allow you to simply unscrew the 5 bolts holding each knife.. remove it.. flip it over (Steel City knives are double sided) and drop it on the index pin.

Most import jointers are basically the same as many of the components are coming from the same source. But.. there are suttle differences if you look closely in a few of them as the index pins on the SC cutter head. And most jointers have fences that can be skewed but.... the way you do it is another PITA. My Steel City can be set up to skew in about 2 minutes as the owners worked for PM and Delta for many years and knew that. They simply had their engineers design it so skewing the fence wasn't a major task.

Most will tell you all imports are the same but that might come from not really examining very closely. They are close but a careful examination might reveal something many would miss on just a glance.

Just my opinion and good luck with your decision...

Sarge..