Frozen Wood Question

[Richard Madison]

Intuitively it would seem that when wood is frozen solid there might be some damage to the cell walls or the structural integrity of the log. Has anyone noticed any difference in wood that has been frozen solid, later thawed and turned compared to "never frozen" wood of the same type? Not a problem here, but was just wondering.

[M Toupin]

I might be wrong, but I think trees are cold blooded. Wouldn't they freeze every year?

Mike

[Richard Madison]

Seems like a reasonable question Mike. I was thinking about cut logs, not live trees. But maybe no difference. Never mind.

[Joe Meirhaeghe]

I work on hollow forms, hollowing mostly tall end grain pieces that are green wood. I will either freeze the piece either before turning if it's a small piece say 18" tall or less. If it's a large piece say 18" to 32" tall we'll freeze it after the rough turning & hollowing. Then after it's been completely frozen, I'll take it out of the freezer and hang it to dry. I have a deciated chest freezer for this process.
I find it helps speed the drying process & helps rduce any cracking in the piece.

[Steve Campbell]

I just turned a frozen Red Oak chunk last week. It was very difficult to turn but after I got it roughed out you can't tell any difference. I waited a couple days before turning the other chunk from the same block and it turned fine. I don't think we would have much wood up here to turn if freezing could hurt it. Just about all I turn has been stored outside till I get ready to turn it. I will now bring at least the Oak chunks in a couple days before turning.

[Brian Effinger]

I work on hollow forms, hollowing mostly tall end grain pieces that are green wood. I will either freeze the piece either before turning if it's a small piece say 18" tall or less. If it's a large piece say 18" to 32" tall we'll freeze it after the rough turning & hollowing. Then after it's been completely frozen, I'll take it out of the freezer and hang it to dry. I have a deciated chest freezer for this process.
I find it helps speed the drying process & helps rduce any cracking in the piece.
That's really interesting Joe. How long do these take to thaw (say for a small & large piece)? Do you have to do anything else to them, or just let them thaw? I'd love it (as I'm sure others would) if you'd elaborate more - even start a new post about your process.

Brian

[Barry Stratton]

I store my turning wood in my unheated "barn". Living in Mini-soda, I'm turning frozen green wood about 5 months a year. It cuts VERY well with sharp tools. One important thing I've learned is to keep the lathe bed WAXED so it doesn't rust!

[George Guadiane]

I would guess that standing trees freeze the same as logs on the ground (maybe faster). I just dragged in some red oak from across the road, cut it right off the elevated log...
It cut fine for me, though oak is SO CAUSTIC, it was practically rusting my tools and lathe while I turned.

Also, ice can be carved/cut fairly easily, but isn't so hard that I think it made turning the oak (end grain) any more difficult, at least not in my experience... As I think has been mentioned, sharp tools make a world of difference. AND, on some days, I can't cut ANYTHING properly, I just can't seem to hold the tool the right way. Those are TV days for me.

[Steve Schlumpf]

Richard - I store my turning blanks in my unheated garage and they are solid as a brick when I bring them into the shop. I usually bring in the blanks a couple of days ahead of time so they have the time to defrost a little before turning. I have never found any of the wood suffered from being frozen.

Joe - I soak my turnings in DNA and then wrap in brown paper for storage until dry. Once pulled from the DNA I let the rough out sit so it can dry a little before wrapping. In the summertime that waiting period can be in as little as 10 minutes but now that the garage hovers around 0* I can leave the turnings for a day or 2 before wrapping. I have noticed that given that amount of time to dry out - in that cold of an environment - the blanks feel very dry to the touch and I wonder if I have to wrap them at all! Course, not willing to take a chance, I still wrap them.

Might be something to that freeze-dried stuff!

[Richard Madison]

OK now I am wondering again, if freezing might actually be beneficial in reducing internal stress, reducing subsequent checking, cracking, and/or drying time. What do you think?

[George Guadiane]

OK now I am wondering again, if freezing might actually be beneficial in reducing internal stress, reducing subsequent checking, cracking, and/or drying time. What do you think?
:oMaybe:confused:Maybe Not:cool:

[Joe Meirhaeghe]

That's really interesting Joe. How long do these take to thaw (say for a small & large piece)? Do you have to do anything else to them, or just let them thaw? I'd love it (as I'm sure others would) if you'd elaborate more - even start a new post about your process.

Brian
Brian. I turn frozen wood all the time. it cuts fine with sharp tools.
Today I turned a 200 plus lb piece of frozen green hard maple. 19" dia X 32" long that I harvested yesterday. It was completely frozen, from just being outside here in my area. It's going to be a hollow form vase.I roughed it out to shape, and had to quit for today so. Then I took it back outside & put it in a extra large garabge bag.this will keep it frozen. I also anchor sealed the piece top to bottom. Tomarrow I'll put it back on the lathe & start to hollow it. If I don't get it completley hollowed tomarrow I'll take it off the lathe & put it in a chest freezer until I can get back to it, be it a day or a week or how ever long it is until I can get back to it. I'll put in in a chest freezer because it's suspose to get up to the 40's by friday.
Once it is completley hollowed ( about 1/2" wall thickness for rough turning) I'll hand it upside down cover the opening with wax paper, then I'll punch 10 or 12 holes in the wax paper with a tooth pic . This will allow a little air in it but not to much to dry to fast. after a couple of weeks I'll take off the wax paper & leave to hang air drying for at least 4 to 6 months. After that I'll remount and re turn on the lathe to final thickness.
I never use DNA. I learned the process I use from a friend of mine who is a Professional Turner & Artist. who has been using this process sucessfully for 10 years.

[hank dekeyser]

Jest my 2 cents -

C'mon now guys, think about this - trees are outside, it freezes outside (where I live it does at least) therefore trees freeze. IF indeed this freeze / thaw were detrimental to trees cellular / internal structure, how would they get to be so old ??

Like I said, MY 2 cents