Feeder Frenzy

[John Bush]

I was in line at the Rockler sale early enough to score on a Delta power feeder and need suggestions on installation and use. I had planned on using it for bevel cuts on the TS for long stock and possibly for surfacing big stuff on the jointer. The manual illustrates drilling/tapping into the CI table with no other ideas on how to secure to the table. I plan on attaching to 3/4" melamine'd MDF long enough to clamp at the front of the saw but my outfeed table blocks access for clamping. I have several 20+# lead weights I thought would hold the unit in position where clamps won't reach. How much downward pressure is used? I realize that would depend on what you are feeding, but 40-60#s of weight would likely hold. Any info and pics would be great. Thanks, JCB.

[David DeCristoforo]

Drill and tap. It is not hard to do (just don't drill into any ribs in the casting. Attaching the feeder to a piece of MDF and clamping it to the table is simply not going to work. Lead weights? Umm... uh... er... ah... you're not serious are you?

[Sonny Edmonds]

You don't say what modle, but maybe how I did mine will help you some.
I mounted my Delta Versa Feeder to a chunk of cold rolled steel by drilling and tapping the steel for the feeders base.
Then have tree holes drilled in the steel for knobs I made from handles off an unused PC router base. I lock-tighted studs into the handles, and then drilled and tapped the wings of my TS so the plate sets on the saw and the handles screw into the threaded holes to mount the plate base and feeder.
Here's some pictures:

http://home.earthlink.net/~pie/images/new%20saw/vfmountedsaw.jpg
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Since mine also serves to be a feeder on my side table router station, the right wing is also drilled and tapped to mount it over there. You may notice that the base is rotated 180 degrees for the right wing of the TS.

http://home.earthlink.net/~pie/images/new%20saw/vfmountrt.jpg
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When it is removed and tucked away under the saw all that is left is these:

http://home.earthlink.net/~pie/images/new%20saw/vfmountholes.jpg
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Weight isn't going to hold your feeder well enough for it to do it's work. It needs a solid mounting to withstand the down force as well as the pushing force required.
You can try other materials, but in my shop wood gets worked with steel and iron. Clamping (with clamps) is OK, but it gets to be a PITA compared to dropping in a couple of knobs and screwing them down.
The holes are 3/8 X16 NF. I used the base as a drill template to bore the wings. Gets the holes just right and straight.
Then tap them.

[Joe Chritz]

Drill, tap, bolt, move along. The forces on even a small feeder are pretty serious.

Attaching it to a 1/2 thick chunk of steel for easier moving around is fine but anything less will flex way to much to be of any use. Basically the steel just makes it easier to get the bolts in and out because the existing base is a knuckle buster.

I haven't ever moved mine off the shaper (although it is DOA currently) so I just drilled and tapped the holes to match the machine base.

Cast iron taps easy without lube and a tap and drill is cheap.

Joe

[John Bush]

Thanks Dave and Sonny,
Dave , your last question/remark is just what I needed to know. Not having used a feeder before and not knowing what resistance would be needed, 1000#s of lead may not work!!!! An "Are you nuts" suggestion is warranted.

Sonny, I got the Versa Feeder as well. I didn't rallize the unit would be mounted in front of the blade. In your first pic the feeder is directly above the blade. Is that the usual operating position? I am used to all hands-on control of the stock and having "things" in my way and not being able to see the blade are a bit atypical for me. There goes that learning curve again. Any more in-put is greatly appreciated.

P.S.: The primary concern is not wanting to punch a hole or two in my TS.

[Burt Waddell]

John,

Take a look at your owners manual for the proper mounting position. If it is typical it is a little difficult to explain. Typically, it has to be over the blade but positioned fo as to contact both pieces of wood after the cut is made.

Delta makes a special mounting kit for the feeders. If I remember correctly it costs about $80. With the kit the feeder is mounted on a 1/2" thick steel plate with several holes. Clamps - pieces of solid steel are provided to fit around a corner on your table saw top. Once it is set it is functional but I like Sonny's approach much better - no chance to slide.

As for myself, I've got one set up to work on the EZ rail. Turn the EZ Rail bottom side up. Mount the feeder on a 1/2" steel base. Put a couple EZ connectors under the base with knobs on top. This allows you to use the feeder at any point you wish along the rail. Makes removing and mounting Very EZ.

Burt

[John Bush]

Thanks Burt,
I finally flipped to the back page of the manual. It does have an illustration on TS use. I shows the base positioned behind the blade and to the right of the fence on the outfeed table. I will be doing bevel cuts at the edge of 2X8X 10' and 2X12X 6' construction grade lumber so there will be no contact surface on the offcuts for the rollers to touch. The lumber will have enough irregularity that I wanted to have a consistent pressure toward the table and toward the fence and have an even feed rate to keep the cuts as even as posible. I am making a wooden water tank 6' tall and 5 1/2' in dia. and a wooden pipe 30" in dia. and 13' long. This is for a playground "thing" I am doing for our community, and it doesn't have to hold water, just keep the kids from getting splinters.

[David DeCristoforo]

"The primary concern is not wanting to punch a hole or two in my TS"

Just "get over" this part. I understand your wanting to keep your equipment in pristine condition. But the main thing is that everything work properly and safely. My saw and shaper tables have a number of holes that have been put there by me for attaching not only feeder bases but various other specialized fixtures. My drill and taps come out at the slightest provocation. It does not hurt the machine at all. And it can free you from having to rig up any number of cumbersome clamping arrangements.

[John Bush]

You are right Dave, and with my new medications I am sure I will get over the angst of the first "door ding" in my saw!! Where(and why) do you prefer the base positioned? Front, back, right, left of the blade and fence? Is there a significant difference in "pushing" or "pulling" the stock thru? Thanks, JCB.

[Peter Quinn]

If you use some crazy shop made MDF mount with clamps, sooner or later, but probably sooner, that whole thing will fail and come crashing down on your blade in the middle of a cut, leading to a whole host of nasty consequences I care not to consider. Depending on the model a stock feeder is capable of exerting #200 to #400 pounds of downward pressure while moving the stock forward. This is no place to play around with weights or clamps. You need to make a solid and direct connection to the saws iron top, and that involves taping the table, either directly or using some system like Sonny's. Anything less is foolish and dangerous. 1/2" steel bolts are what you need, and nothing less. Any concern for the aesthetics of a top with feed mount holes in it strikes me as bazaar; it is a machine for wood working and will only be more useful with a feeder attached.

I use a 1HP feeder that lives more on my shaper but occasionally sees use on my TS. It is bolted to the far back left corner of the left extension wing on the TS in use. My saw is a left tilt. Mounting to the right of the fence creates serious limitations on the use of the fence. I have never used the model in question and can't say where the best mounting location would be for that size of unit, but consider the mounting location carefully and measure to make sure the arm will reach where it needs to.

Another post mentioned the wheels touching both sides of the stock relative to the blade? If I understand that statement correctly, I will say that that is false and quite dangerous. The feed wheels only touch the keeper, which should be between the fence and the blade. The cut off falls away just like a hand fed cut. The feeder in use is angled slightly TOWARD the fence to keep the stock tight to the fence, and one wheel should contact the stock on each side of the blade, both in feed and out feed. It may also be necessary to clamp a block to table on the opposite side of the fence from the blade at the far end of the fence (out feed end) to resist any deflection the angled feeder may exert on the fence.

Congratulations on that purchase and work safely. I suggest you run some short test pieces before each cut to check your feeder set up and verify your TS fence settings. It is often necessary to do run a test piece 'Under power' with a feeder for precision cuts as they tend to hold the stock just a bit tighter to the fence than a hand fed cut and may require slight adjustments of blade height or fence versus your initial hand fed set up. Make sense?

[Sonny Edmonds]

Thanks Dave and Sonny,
Dave , your last question/remark is just what I needed to know. Not having used a feeder before and not knowing what resistance would be needed, 1000#s of lead may not work!!!! An "Are you nuts" suggestion is warranted.

Sonny, I got the Versa Feeder as well. I didn't rallize the unit would be mounted in front of the blade. In your first pic the feeder is directly above the blade. Is that the usual operating position? I am used to all hands-on control of the stock and having "things" in my way and not being able to see the blade are a bit atypical for me. There goes that learning curve again. Any more in-put is greatly appreciated.

P.S.: The primary concern is not wanting to punch a hole or two in my TS.

Yes, John, in front of the work being done. two of the wheels in front of the blade, and the last one just behind the blade.
I used to try and straddle the blade with the wheels, but a few grooved wheels later, I stopped making that mistake.
I set mine so that the blade emerges just to the left of the drive wheels. And typically for me, the blade barely emerges above the surface of the stock anyway, feeder or not.
Also with the Versa Feeder, there is a place for a vacuum hose to be attached to the hood covering the wheels. That can aid a lot to catch the small amount of over throw done by the blade as in rises and falls back into the work.
I know many will cringe, but I do not use a splitter, nor a guard on my TS. I grew up using TS's that way, and have all ten finners still. The Versa Feeder acts as a guard in it's own right.
You will find in the book with it how to set it, and also to angle it just slightly toward the fence so it pushes the stock to the fence nice and snug. I typically will cant mine about 1/16" from the back (in-feed) looking toward the out-feed.
I have two set up blocks of MDF that are 5/8" thick. I set them under the front wheel and back wheel and set the three axis's and head where I want it. Then tighten as I go on the clamps. when all is secure I switch on the feeder to eject the set up blocks.
That is just about right for 3/4" stock for pressure. The wheels are spring loaded so that the 3/4" stock will have good traction with the feeder.
You should rotate your blade (UNPLUG THE SAW!) to make sure you won't cut wheels or anything else before turning on the power.
Until you have done enough practice feeder cuts to know your new feeder and how it works, I'd suggest you do several practice set-ups and actual cuts with it. I like to use MDF for my practice cuts to check set-ups before the real stock is laid on the table.
You can always lower the blade and just let the feeder slide your pieces along with the saw off, to check how the feeder will work.
It will become a tool you will want to use when doing most of your rip cuts to final dimension. Going from hand feeding, to feeder use you will immediately notice how smooth and consistent the cut will be.
It is typical to get glue joint quality when using a feeder and a good ripping blade. I use a 30 tooth Glue Joint Rip blade for mine.

My chunk of steel for the base is 5/8" thick. It is drilled and tapped for 4- 5/16 x 1/2" screws to mount the feeders base. I drilled the 3- 3/8" holes in mine, but only use the two shown.
It makes a good solid base for feeder that is very rigid and won't flex at all.
1/2" steel would probably work fine, too. The idea is to help spread the load over a larger area, without the hassle of dealing with attaching the base, or removing it, from the plate.

Speed is a relative thing with your feeder. You need to start out slower, then find what speed you and your TS likes with different materials.
My old saw didn't like much more than 10-12 feet per minute. My current saw will run all day at 46 FPM and ask for more.

You are going to really love the smooth cuts you will get with your new feeder. Like any new tool, you will need to do a little bit of practice with it. Have fun! :)

[David DeCristoforo]

One thing to keep in mind about feeder wheels...

...is that they can be considered "sacrificial" to a certain extent. That "certain extent" is the extent to which you are willing to spring for a few extra wheels. I have several sets for my feeders, some with the edges of the tires chamfered off, some with cuts right in the middle of the tires. Sometimes a setup requires that you be willing to cut into the tires a bit (not the metal wheel itself) in order to make the run work. They are not sacred, no more than the tops of your machines are. Getting the job done safely and efficiently... that's the ticket.

[Russell Tribby]

I've used a feeder on a shaper at a shop I used to work at but the Versa Feeder I picked up on Saturday will be used on my router table. I had planned on using it in conjunction with the Freud Crown Moulding router bits. I tried feeding stock by hand with different featherboard set ups a few months ago and was not happy with the results. After reading some of the comments here by people with alot more experience than me I have a few questions.
My router table is two layers of 3/4" mdf. I had planned on drilling some through holes and bolting the feeder to the table through the holes. Does this sound adequate enough?
Since I had planned on using it almost exclusively for the crown moulding the feeder will be rotated so that the wheels are facing the fence. I have a Kreg router table fence what locks down at both ends. Will I have problems with the feeder exerting too much pressure on the fence?

[Sonny Edmonds]

I've used a feeder on a shaper at a shop I used to work at but the Versa Feeder I picked up on Saturday will be used on my router table. I had planned on using it in conjunction with the Freud Crown Moulding router bits. I tried feeding stock by hand with different featherboard set ups a few months ago and was not happy with the results. After reading some of the comments here by people with alot more experience than me I have a few questions.
My router table is two layers of 3/4" mdf. I had planned on drilling some through holes and bolting the feeder to the table through the holes. Does this sound adequate enough?
Since I had planned on using it almost exclusively for the crown moulding the feeder will be rotated so that the wheels are facing the fence. I have a Kreg router table fence what locks down at both ends. Will I have problems with the feeder exerting too much pressure on the fence?

It should work out fine, Russell. I use mine to feed stock for my router set-up. And have used it for against the fence as well as down to the table, depending on the bit being used.
If you are in dought about your mounting, add fender washers, or a plate even under your table for the bolts to go through and tighten up against.
And yep, doing molding is why I got a feeder in the first place, for consistent results. :)

[Burt Waddell]

Russell,

The ideal thing for that crown bit and the other long bits is to have a horizontal router table with the stock feeder. That the bit length becomes a non-issue. It works great.

Burt

[Russell Tribby]

Thanks for the replies. Sonny, good advice on the plate, I may do that when I get ready to install this thing.
Burt, the horizontal router sounds like a good idea. Did you build your own set up or do you have a manufactured table?

[John Bush]

Thanks for all the great info. I am still a bit confused on positioning the feeder to push the work thru or pull the work thru. As long as the base is stable it seems it wouldn't make any difference. Seems it's a matter of operator preference. With no experience with autofeeding all this info realy helps. Off to get some steel!! Thanks all, John.

[Peter Quinn]

Thanks for all the great info. I am still a bit confused on positioning the feeder to push the work thru or pull the work thru. As long as the base is stable it seems it wouldn't make any difference.

I find it makes no difference, push or pull, as long as the feeder is solid and well secured to the machine. I have seen both on shapers and noticed no difference. I have only seen them on the back edge of TS as they seem to be less in the way when not in use. I have heard different 'experts' defend both the push and pull arguments, I am not an expert but find it makes no difference and is mostly a matter of your convenience and preference.

Oh, one thing that does make a difference is waxing the table; even the biggest feeder can have a hard time moving the stock unless the table is well waxed. Some use boeshield or similar, I use Johnson bowling alley wax in my own shop.

[David DeCristoforo]

"..am still a bit confused on positioning the feeder to push the work thru or pull the work thru...."

Remember Dr Doolittle's "pushmepullyou"? The feeder is kinda like that....

[Vince Shriver]

I've never used a feeder, but coming up I have some lengthy black walnut I have to rip with a contractors saw. To add to the situation these pieces will be quite thick, maybe 1 1/4". Seems a feeder would be ideal - but wondering if a feeder would be a good choice on my little 1 1/2 hp saw. Vince

[John Bush]

More good info.

Dave, that's what my wife calls me- Dr. Do little, and I,m not much of a football fan.

[Peter Quinn]

I've never used a feeder, but coming up I have some lengthy black walnut I have to rip with a contractors saw. To add to the situation these pieces will be quite thick, maybe 1 1/4". Seems a feeder would be ideal - but wondering if a feeder would be a good choice on my little 1 1/2 hp saw. Vince

I doubt it? That is, I doubt you will get the performance you are seeking or that the stamped steel wings of a typical contractor saw would be rigid enough to support a feeder, though maybe a small feeder. I think my feeder weights around 130#, so that's probably out, but that's more than you need to rip 5/4 anyway. The other issue you may encounter is will the feeder have a speed slow enough to provide an appropriate feed rate for your saw? With a cabinet saw it is not an issue, I know it works. But when I've used a contractor saw I recall reducing the feed rate to keep from bogging down the motor. Not sure the slowest speed on my feeder would be slow enough but I suspect it would be close, possibly a bit fast?

[Sonny Edmonds]

I've never used a feeder, but coming up I have some lengthy black walnut I have to rip with a contractors saw. To add to the situation these pieces will be quite thick, maybe 1 1/4". Seems a feeder would be ideal - but wondering if a feeder would be a good choice on my little 1 1/2 hp saw. Vince

When I first got my feeder I was using a 1940's era Craftsman 100 table saw. The OEM motor was rated at 1 HP back then, and it survived 2 re-ratings for electric motors HP wise.
That's why for my use the feeder was run down slow, so it wouldn't over tax the saw.
But now, with a 5 HP Unisaw, the little feeder runs at it's highest speed as the norm.
When running off blanks for molding runs, absolute accuracy is needed for consistent blanks. Any stall, any feed rate deviation, will show in the blank or the finished piece.
Feeders are the way to go for repetitive operations. :)