Pattern Maker's Vice Options

[Joel Ficke]

I'm thinking about a upgrading to a pattern maker's vice, and having not found an original Emmert at a decent price, the two options the come to mind are Lee Valley's Tucker Vice and the Emmert knock-offs offered by Highland Hardware and Woodcraft.

Are there other good options to consider? Also, given that the Emmert knock-off is ~$240 and the Tucker nearly $700, does anyone know what the differences are? All I can surmise is a cork lining and probably some fit and finish differences. Hard to justify the extra $460, but perhaps there's more to it than that.

Thanks for your help.

-Joel

[Alan DuBoff]

All I can surmise is a cork lining and probably some fit and finish differences. Hard to justify the extra $460, but perhaps there's more to it than that.
I think most folks would like to believe that those are the only differences, but the fact is that the Tucker is one of the best vises built today, bar none.

It is manufactured with better materials, and is lighter, and stronger. Original Emmerts have a tendency to crack, especially the larger ones, and the Tucker would be pretty well protected against that, IMO. The Tucker also has quick release, that is quite a nice feature in itself. It is also easier to mount on your bench, has the cork liners, and it has some foot controls to assist in the operation. All in all, it really is the nicest vise built today, with the highest price tag, but that should be no surprise.

That said, I have the Emmert clone you speak of, and IMO it is hard to beat the value of this vise. I just couldn't justify the extra expense, but there is good justification in having the Tucker on your workbench depending on how much you use your bench. A workbench is priceless, IMO, no matter how much you invest in it.

I added a hand wheel to my Emmert clone recently (http://www.softorchestra.com/woodworking/tools/emmert-wheel/) and I am really pleased with this modification. You can see I have 1/4" thick leather lining the jaws. :)

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=102857&d=1228453091

The Emmert clone is not easy to install, and requires quite a bit of bench removal. If your bench is 1 3/4" thick, you won't need to remove anything though, as I recall.

Here's a picture of the cavity required for the Emmert clone in a close to 3" thick bench top.

[Eric Brown]

I really like my Tucker. Installation was straightforward and it works smoothly. Other nice things: The rear jaw is fairly close to the back pivot allowing the rear jaw to be recessed until it is flush with the front of the bench. The Emmerts can also be mounted flush, but require more depth. The Tucker is made with light (but strong) alloy and is easier to tilt because of less weight. My Tucker came with leather instead of cork. It has a warranty and technical support. The Tucker likes a 2 3/4" thick bench.

Eric

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[Doug Shepard]

I came pretty close to going with the Emmert clone but ended up with the Tucker in the end.
http://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=83328
The quick release is the biggest obvious difference but Alan/Eric touched on some other points. I'm not sure if the jaws on the bottom of the Emmert clone have this or not, but I've also found myself flipping the Tucker over and using the narrow jaw side a few times and found it pretty handy.

[Kevin Adams]

Eric and Doug--

I have the Tucker on my wish list and plan to get one in the next few months for a new bench I am building. It looks like you both opted to mount your vice outside the leg. My bench will be fairly small (probably about 30" x 30" or so) as it will be strictly for carving and I was wondering if there would be any issue with mounting the Tucker inside the leg? I'd like to keep the legs as far to the outside as possible if that makes sense. This will be one solid bench with a 2 3/4" top, 3" legs, and 2" stretchers (all from free beech I got from a friend's grandfather's farm!).

If I can pull this off, it will be an almost "all Lee Valley" bench as I am planning the Tucker on the front, twin screw on the side, and then one of their carving vices on the top!

Thanks for any further advice here.

Kevin

[Doug Shepard]

Kevin
I dont think there's any problem going between the legs. I dont recall the exact rotation clearance you need but you wont be able to put it right up by the leg. I think it's something like 7-8" from the center line but I think it's listed on the instruction link on LV's site or maybe even on that post of mine somewhere.

Eric
I just noticed on your setback, that it doesn't look like you have enough room to insert the pin? Did you just leave it mounted to the plate and screw the mounting plate into that recess with it all assembled?

[Joel Ficke]

Thanks Everyone. This is exactly what I was looking for.

Alan, how much clearance do you need from the bench end to legs for the Emmert knock-off assuming the vice is side mounted. The photo of yours would suggest something like 9-10". Just need to make sure I have enough clearance.

Thanks again folks. The Tucker vice sure looks sweat on your bench Eric. Not sure if I would want to bang away on that though...too pretty. :-)

[Eric Brown]

Doug, the pivot pin in this picture is not installed all the way. I have since drilled and tapped the pin an installed an eye hook. This way I can pull the pin out as the skirt limits acces on the right side.

Joel, Doug was correct about clearance for the rotating screws, keep in mind though that the tilt release handle requires clearance also. The handle can be moved to the right side of the vice and the rotation one can also if need be.

As for my "pretty" bench, well, yes it is. I wanted it to inspire me every time I work on it.

Eric


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[Alan DuBoff]

Alan, how much clearance do you need from the bench end to legs for the Emmert knock-off assuming the vice is side mounted. The photo of yours would suggest something like 9-10". Just need to make sure I have enough clearance.
Joel,

It's more like 14" from the end. That just give me about 1"-2" to clear the leg, with the support. However, there are several factors to consider.

The support is about 4" from the front, when the vise is mounted all the way forward, mine is just about even with the front. My legs are 4 1/2", so when I mounted the top to the base, I made sure I had enough space for the vise. The other side has just shy of 12", so I put the top off center to accommodate the pattern maker's support bar, just to be safe. You can slot the leg if you wanted, so that is not critical, would just add to the installation.

Many folks have flush mounted these, but in my case I see no reason to, I don't use the end vise to clamp boards against the end, I use my face vise (twin-screw) for that.

FWIW, the clone operates smoothly, and I feel more smoothly than my LV Quick Release vise I have in the garage. That will be moving to another bench in the shed eventually, when time permits.

I will say this...I find the vise invaluable. I wouldn't want to be without it after having it. Chris Schwarz doesn't recommend them due to the complexity of installation, but he's not working the wood on my bench. ;)

HTH,

[Doug Shepard]

...
As for my "pretty" bench, well, yes it is. I wanted it to inspire me every time I work on it.
...


That's a beaut. Looks like we shop at the same hardware store:D

[David Keller NC]

Joel - I don't have one of the clones, so I can't speak personally about it. However, I do have a good aquiantence at one of the local WW stores that's into making the same things I am (18th century repros). He purchased the clone looking to save some $$ over the Tucker and an original Emmert. His opinion was not good - he eventually chucked it and bought an Emmert.

I'm not sure what you consider a decent price on an Emmert, but the $700 you've quoted on the Tucker would buy you an late-model Emmert with all of the correct parts and bells and whistles at an MWTCA event all day long. The earlier "turtle back" vises go for a bit less, as they've a few less features than the K-series Emmerts. There are also some Emmert clones that were manufactured to a high standard early in the 20th century that go for a good deal less than an Emmert.

In my case, I've one of the Emmert K-series vises. It's one impressive chunk of iron (they weight around 80 lbs., btw).

[Randy Linton]

I was on the phone with Lee Valley today and learned that the Tucker Vise is no longer available. There apparently have been problems obtaining parts and therefore they cannot keep up the production. They do not know if this is permanent or short term.

[Doug Shepard]

Yikes. Looks like they've already pulled it from their website. Glad I already have one, but this isn't real encouraging from a replacement parts perspective either.

[Joel Ficke]

Thanks for the update on Tucker vices Randy!

[Kevin Adams]

Rob Lee had put a note on one of the other boards that the Tucker is probably not dead, just going on sebatical for a while until they can get some other production facility lined up (most likely offshore I believe he said). No idea how far out, but I imagine it won't be within the next couple of months that I was looking to get one...bummer. I don't think I'll get one of the Emmett rip-offs, but will go in a different direction and maybe wait for the Tucker to come back. Should have, could have...

Doug, they will have replacement parts, but can't imagine you'd ever need them as the Tucker is so well built.

Kevin

[Doug Shepard]

...
Doug, they will have replacement parts, but can't imagine you'd ever need them as the Tucker is so well built.

Kevin

I doubt it too but you just never know. I saw the Woodweb post from Rob too and it sounds like they dont consider it permanently dead anyway.
One thing that occurs to me is that in 5 years or so if you see eBay or Craigslist ads for Tuckers, they're going to add the words "N.America made" or "Pre-Import" etc., and try to command premium prices for those even if you cant tell them apart from the offshore ones. Maybe that version qualifies for an entry on the OWWM forum now?:D