Oliver Bandsaw advice

[Tony Osegueda]

Hello,

Happy New Year to all of you. I am a new member here on the forum and I need some advise on a Oliver 30inch bandsaw that I may able to acquire within the next couple of days. I won't be able to view the BS till next week but the owner is asking $1,600 for it,would this be a fair price assuming everything is operable and all there. I currently own 2 Delta 14inch BS one a wood/metal and the other with a riser kit and a 1-1/2hp motor for re-saw. I would like to sell these bandsaw toward the purchase of the bigger saw.

[Bob Aquino]

Tony
You will probably find some good info over at owwm.org, they deal with old woodworking machines exclusively and there are quite a few guys with experience with big oliver saws. The one thing they wont publically comment on is prices since its very machine dependent. Moving from a 14" delta up to a 30" Oliver is quite a step up. Most likely the bigger saw is 3 phase so you might have to deal with that as well. Good luck.

[John Bailey]

Hi Tony, welcome to the Creek.

I just went from a 14" Delta to an 18" Oliver 192. While it's not in the same league that a 30'er, it is a great saw and a real step up for me.

It's good advice to go to the Old Wood Working Machine site as they are a wealth of information on the old machinery. My opinion is that's a good price, but only if it's in very good shape. I would want the direct drive version, check the bearings, and make sure there are no cracks in the castings. If it's direct drive, it will probably have a low hp motor by today's standards. Those motors will be low rpm and will create a lot of torque. I had plans to swap my 1/2 hp, 850 rpm, 3 phase motor for a larger single phase. So far I'm glad I didn't as the original has handled everything I've thrown at it. I've got 4 old machines now and they all have taken quite a bit of work. If you're looking at old machines you have to be willing to do this.

I worried about the 3 phase part of the equation and that really has not been an issue. I bought a variable frequency drive and it works great.

John

[Alan DuBoff]

Hard to give you an opinion on if the price is ok if you haven't even seen the saw yet...;)

Not a giveaway, but not a bad price for a good solid band saw, and the Olivers are nice machines.

There are a lot of different models, what type of motor (direct drive or belt), the model of saw, are all the pieces there (guard, fence, miter, etc...).

You really have to look at it, scope it out, get a feel for what the owner expects of it (i.e., if he'll come down in price), etc...

Every old machine is usually unique in it's acquisition. :)

[Ray Newman]

Be careful & best to get some knowledge about Oliver machines before hand.

There are/were 2 Oliver machinery companies: the old tried & true made-in-the-USofA Oliver & more recently, Taiwan clones imported by Sunhill machinery....

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Welcome, Tony. Having spent a little quality time with my big old Oliver this morning, I'd definatly recommend following up on the saw. They can be gems. That price is four times what I paid, but, mine had more then a few issues. Learn what you can, as the other guys said, before you go see it. These saws are not the rarest things, so don't be afraid to pass if you think you can do better elsewhere.

[lou sansone]

tony that seems to be a good price if it is a modern - mid 20th century model. I believe that steve's is a spoke wheel type machine that is very early and they do not command much money. a decent oliver 36 inch machine should be in the 3 to 5 k range if it came from a pattern shop with very good care.

photos ?

lou

[Alan DuBoff]

I think Lou is a bit high on that Oliver pricing, but they do demand good $$$s.

I would place the Yates-American Y-36 as the most expensive bandsaw, they seem to sell for about $2500-$3000 over the past couple years. Gary Rogowski paid about $2300 for a beauty on ebay last year.

I have not seen an Oliver sell for $5k, but I don't look for them very often.

I would value an Oliver 36 with ball bearings to go for about $1500-$2000, in Xlnt condition. I've seen folks asking $4k for them, just like companies that ask $3k-$4k for mills that sell for about $500. Anyone can ask anything they like, it's what actually sells that you want to keep track of, IMO.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

tony that seems to be a good price if it is a modern - mid 20th century model. I believe that steve's is a spoke wheel type machine that is very early and they do not command much money. a decent oliver 36 inch machine should be in the 3 to 5 k range if it came from a pattern shop with very good care.

photos ?

lou

Thats true Lou mine is a spokey, I wouldn't have paid more for the one I got, but I gladly would have for one like you are thinking of, or a different example of mine in mint condition. However, I believe that a bandsaw is such a simple machine, that short of casting breaks, just about anything on one is fixable. It just adds to the cost. Mine is not mint, it also came from a school woodshop, not a pattern shop, and the previous owner just wanted it out of the way, hence, $400.

That being said, I've put a bit of time and money into the old beast, and I would not sell it for $1600.

A big bandsaw can open up options like no other tool, IMHO. Which model is the one that you have a lead on?

[Steve Rozmiarek]

I think Lou is a bit high on that Oliver pricing, but they do demand good $$$s.

I would place the Yates-American Y-36 as the most expensive bandsaw, they seem to sell for about $2500-$3000 over the past couple years. Gary Rogowski paid about $2300 for a beauty on ebay last year.

I have not seen an Oliver sell for $5k, but I don't look for them very often.

I would value an Oliver 36 with ball bearings to go for about $1500-$2000, in Xlnt condition. I've seen folks asking $4k for them, just like companies that ask $3k-$4k for mills that sell for about $500. Anyone can ask anything they like, it's what actually sells that you want to keep track of, IMO.

Alan, I think you are closer on the price range, from what I've seen. As always, I may be missing something though.

[Tony Osegueda]

Thanks to all for your suggestions. I will know more about the Bandsaw and the model hopefully by Wednesday. I'll try taking some pictures.
Thanks,
Tony

[Frank Drew]

Tony,

Any Oliver machine, of any type, is worth serious consideration, IMO. That said, your decision will come down to how you feel about this particular machine. In general, though, as Bob notes, there's a day for night difference between a 14" Delta and a larger, serious bandsaw such as an Oliver (or Tannewitz, Yates, Northfield, etc...).

[lou sansone]

I think Lou is a bit high on that Oliver pricing, but they do demand good $$$s.

I would place the Yates-American Y-36 as the most expensive band saw, they seem to sell for about $2500-$3000 over the past couple years. Gary Rogowski paid about $2300 for a beauty on ebay last year.

I have not seen an Oliver sell for $5k, but I don't look for them very often.

I would value an Oliver 36 with ball bearings to go for about $1500-$2000, in Xlnt condition. I've seen folks asking $4k for them, just like companies that ask $3k-$4k for mills that sell for about $500. Anyone can ask anything they like, it's what actually sells that you want to keep track of, IMO.

we can disagree on this one. I have not see a good pattern shop oliver 116 with the slow speed motor for any where the prices you are talking about. If you know of one please pm me! Now there are the deals out there and chuck hess over at owwm probably got a that type of deal on his 116d, but they are far and few between. you can get the wobbly beaters out of the furniture auction site, but they are run hard and put away wet. I still think that the machine that the OP was interested in is priced right.

lou

[Alan DuBoff]

we can disagree on this one. I have not see a good pattern shop oliver 116 with the slow speed motor for any where the prices you are talking about. If you know of one please pm me! Now there are the deals out there and chuck hess over at owwm probably got a that type of deal on his 116d, but they are far and few between. you can get the wobbly beaters out of the furniture auction site, but they are run hard and put away wet. I still think that the machine that the OP was interested in is priced right.

lou
Yeah, Chuck bought his in Hawaii when he was living there, from auction, as many, many of them are.

If one watches some of the auctions and is willing to clean these up, there are good machines out there that you don't need to pay an arm and a leg for.

Truth is that most folks want new shiny European saws, and most don't want these big beasts in their shops anymore. I do, mostly out of nostalgia, but also the fact that these industrial machines are amazing for the pennies on the dollar one can find them for.

Where do you see people paying $5k for a vintage Oliver with ball bearings? Most of the folks over on OWWM are picking them up at scrap prices and tearing them down and restoring them. They do look like a $5k saw when most are done with them, but who is buying them for that?

OTOH, folks are paying $5k for European band saws all day long...:rolleyes:

Here's an older one for sale in Hartford, but not sure if this is ball bearing or not...:
http://hartford.craigslist.org/tls/979187577.html

Ebay: 250352132780 $1000 obo, lower roller bearing and probably babbitt on top.

Don't see anything with ball bearings, like WWII era is my fave.

[Carroll Courtney]

You better take a camera,we want pics of your expression when you first see that amazing machine.----Carroll

[lou sansone]

Yeah, Chuck bought his in Hawaii when he was living there, from auction, as many, many of them are.

If one watches some of the auctions and is willing to clean these up, there are good machines out there that you don't need to pay an arm and a leg for.

Truth is that most folks want new shiny European saws, and most don't want these big beasts in their shops anymore. I do, mostly out of nostalgia, but also the fact that these industrial machines are amazing for the pennies on the dollar one can find them for.

Where do you see people paying $5k for a vintage Oliver with ball bearings? Most of the folks over on OWWM are picking them up at scrap prices and tearing them down and restoring them. They do look like a $5k saw when most are done with them, but who is buying them for that?

OTOH, folks are paying $5k for European band saws all day long...:rolleyes:

Here's an older one for sale in Hartford, but not sure if this is ball bearing or not...:
http://hartford.craigslist.org/tls/979187577.html

Ebay: 250352132780 $1000 obo, lower roller bearing and probably babbitt on top.

Don't see anything with ball bearings, like WWII era is my fave.


well, how about we just keep an eye out for my favorite vintage as well, the WWII era and see what the prices are. The old spoke babbit ones are cheap. I agree. But the mid 40's - early 60's are not unless you get one of those deals.

best wishes
lou

[Alan DuBoff]

well, how about we just keep an eye out for my favorite vintage as well, the WWII era and see what the prices are. The old spoke babbit ones are cheap. I agree. But the mid 40's - early 60's are not unless you get one of those deals.
I'd like to compare if I could find, I'll keep an eye open, although my eye is typically open for a Y-30/Y-36, I wouldn't push an Oliver out of my garage. I spoke with a guy with an American 36 from the 20s that is torn down and was sand blasted. It has babbitt, but I'm still interested. Could sleeve it easily enough and add a bearing myself, if I wanted. I do like the old C Frames myself.:)

BTW, how much did you pay for yours?

[Tony Osegueda]

Hello everyone,

I went to view the bandsaw on wednesday I got to excited that I missed the model # but It looks to be a 30 inch with a electric brake extended out from the motor housing The top wheel is cast iron the bottom solid and the hinged doors plain and missing the embossed 217d emblem. By looking at the owwm picture sight it looks like it may be an early 217 or a 117 with a brake on the top wheel. Today I visited again this time we powered it up and it turns out that it is a 440volt 3ph. It fired up smoothly and is very quite and vibration free. Now this is the situation, he is willing to part with it for $800.00 and I think this is a good deal but that 440volts and having to buy a step up transformer has me thinking if its worth the trouble. Any input welcomed

Thanks.

[Alan DuBoff]

Hello everyone,

I went to view the bandsaw on wednesday I got to excited that I missed the model # but It looks to be a 30 inch with a electric brake extended out from the motor housing The top wheel is cast iron the bottom solid and the hinged doors plain and missing the embossed 217d emblem. By looking at the owwm picture sight it looks like it may be an early 217 or a 117 with a brake on the top wheel. Today I visited again this time we powered it up and it turns out that it is a 440volt 3ph. It fired up smoothly and is very quite and vibration free. Now this is the situation, he is willing to part with it for $800.00 and I think this is a good deal but that 440volts and having to buy a step up transformer has me thinking if its worth the trouble. Any input welcomed

Thanks.
Tony,

Many of the vintage machines can be wired 220 or 440. Some of them only will go 440. You should check to see if this one can be wired for 220.

Is the motor direct drive? IOW, does the motor directly attach to the bottom wheel? Or is there a belt on it?

You might be able to get a VFD that would handle 440, I'm not positive. I use a rotary phase converter myself. Some folks don't like them, but I have several machines that use 3-phase and find it convenient.

[Tony Osegueda]

Alan,

The motor is attached to the wheel and it has no belt drive and as far as i can tell it's 440 volts only. Considering its all there complete and running, do you still think its worth the $800.00.

Tony

[lou sansone]

direct drive is what makes these old machines so fantastic; there is no drive line vibration. the really old ones were belt driven and that is why they don't fetch very much money. no disrespect here to those who own old belt type BS here. I had one myself and sold it for 300 bucks.

That is a great price.. go for it.

from what I know of oliver, they did not seem to waste time with 9 wire motors that were dual voltage. I could be wrong here, but my 260 was strictly 230 volts and I seem to remember many other olivers that I have looked at being single voltage.

best wishes and please keep us posted on how you make out.

lou

[Alan DuBoff]

The motor is attached to the wheel and it has no belt drive and as far as i can tell it's 440 volts only. Considering its all there complete and running, do you still think its worth the $800.00.
Tony,

If it is direct drive as you say, it is most likely ball bearing, so I think it would be worth the price. It all depends on how much it costs for a VFD, or if one will handle 440v. I don't have any experience with 440v, all of my 3 phase machines are 220v and I use a rotary phase converter for them.

Direct drive is preferred, but the main reason I was asking is that if you have a direct drive, it's not easy to replace the motor. On a belt drive, you could easily swap the motor with a single phase, but that is not as easy with direct drive in most cases as it needs to fit the mounting bracket, or you would need to fabricate one up, if the motor didn't have the same frame.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Anybody know what the step up transformers are running now? I priced a step down, from 480 to 240, and it was around $600, a couple months ago. This would have been capable of handling a 10 hp motor. All my power company will supply in three phase is 480. I think that most industrial use is the higher volt three phase, it is here at least, so I wonder if your company can provide you with 480? It would save them the extra transformer step, so they may.

I'd go for it. Sounds like a good deal to me, as long as you can get the power situation resolved. Good luck!

[Tony Osegueda]

Well I purchased the bandsaw,here are some pictures.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Nice saw Tony! Thats not going to take much to bring back, is it?

[John Bailey]

Ya did good guy!! I'm jealous.

John

[Alan DuBoff]

That is a beauty!

How tall is it? Do you know by chance?

[Tony Osegueda]

Alan,

I think its stands about 82 inch, However it seems strange but it doesn't look to be that big of a saw in person just kinda a lot of table space. I think I will be happy with this one.

Tony

[Alan DuBoff]

Alan,

I think its stands about 82 inch, However it seems strange but it doesn't look to be that big of a saw in person just kinda a lot of table space. I think I will be happy with this one.

Tony
Nice size for a garage shop...beautiful looking saw, you done good!;)

[Bruce Page]

Tony, that's a brute!

congrats!

[Chris Padilla]

So what length of blade does that "piece o arn" need? Deep throat...what is the resaw height? What kind of guides?

I think you got a BS for life! Nice find.

[lou sansone]

nice saw - congrats. you did very good on the price -

best wishes
lou