Hand Plane Questions

[Adam Johan Bergren]

After my last project, I swore that I never wanted to sand again! This resulted in purchasing a couple of card scrapers and some hand planes, including the Veritas Cabinet Scraper, Veritas No. 4 1/2 smoothing plane, Vertias low angle block plane, and a cheap spokeshave, which works but will be replaced in the future (probably with a Veritas model).

Now, I've learned how to use the scrapers with the aid of the Veritas variable angle burnishing took, which I love.

Over the past two weeks, I have begun a new project, with the intent of hand planing for a variety of purposes, including smoothing. I have spent a ton of time using the No. 4 1/2, and I now have a few questions:

1. When begnining a cut, I am getting a significant amount of snipe. It seems no mater what I try, there is always some snipe at the beginning. Is there a way to eliminate this snipe? I know I am just beginning, but I have read a ton of books and materials (I have on-line FWW access), and I did not come across any discussions of hand plane snipe.

2. I am doing the best I can in planing with the grain, but the White Ash I have seems to have a lot of grain reversal, so I am getting significant tear-out in some areas with the 4 1/2. I am coping with the tear out as best I can by changing directions, but there are always areas to clean up with the scraper. What is counter-intuitive to me is that when I use my low-angle block plane over the areas that tear-out with the 4 1/2, I usually get less tear out. I think this might be to blade sharpness, but I'm not sure. Is Ash a wood that is expected to have a lot of tear out? Is there a way to reduce tear-out as much as possible?

3. This brings up a related questions about sharpening. Re-honing my blade seemed to reduce tear-out for a while, but my finest stone is a 4000-grit water stone. I just recently learned how to sharpen, so I didn't want to invest in an 8000 grit stone until I learned how to sharpen (I have 1000- and 4000-grit stones). Would having the 8000 stone (or otherwise increasing the level of sharpness by improving my technique) help reduce tear-out when using the 4 1/2?

4. What is the most logical plane to add to my arsenal next? I am thinking that a Jack or Jointer Plane would be nice, but can't decide on what would be the most versatile (I am unlikely to be able to buy several at a time).

Overall, I am enjoying hand tools a lot! I go slower and focus more on the details of the project. At the same time, I enjoy the work more, so I feel even less need to rush (no sanding!!!). I am hoping that the result in a great positive effect on the quality of my projects.


I know there is a lot to read here, but I can't seem to find this information anywhere, so any help will be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!!

[Steve Hamlin]

Hi Adam
Expect the guru types will be along later, but for openers:

1. When begnining a cut, I am getting a significant amount of snipe. It seems no mater what I try, there is always some snipe at the beginning. Is there a way to eliminate this snipe?
Without careful technique, very slight 'snipe' is a natural result of a planes geometry.
But, for it to be readily noticable, this sounds like you may be taking too heavy a shaving (certainly I did when I started using a hand plane)
A finishing plane such as a 4 1/2 is best suited to taking whisper thin finishing cuts, as rather than flattening, its relatively short base allows it to follow dips and rises in the wood surface (or, indeed create them, with a heavy cut)


2. I am doing the best I can in planing with the grain, but the White Ash I have seems to have a lot of grain reversal, so I am getting significant tear-out in some areas with the 4 1/2. I am coping with the tear out as best I can by changing directions, but there are always areas to clean up with the scraper. What is counter-intuitive to me is that when I use my low-angle block plane over the areas that tear-out with the 4 1/2, I usually get less tear out. I think this might be to blade sharpness, but I'm not sure. Is Ash a wood that is expected to have a lot of tear out? Is there a way to reduce tear-out as much as possible?
Huge question! Probably right about the blade.
The main ways to combat tearout are sharp blade and a very fine cut.
A narrow mouth (just enough to pass the shaving) will also help.
An oblique/swirling cut can help too - though this also lowers the effective cutting angle, it makes the cut part cross grain.
And scrapers are always a good last resort.
Will dig out links to some good articles on the subject.


3. This brings up a related questions about sharpening. Re-honing my blade seemed to reduce tear-out for a while, but my finest stone is a 4000-grit water stone. Would having the 8000 stone (or otherwise increasing the level of sharpness by improving my technique) help reduce tear-out when using the 4 1/2?
Yes. Vide supra. Also, expect you are touching up the edge less often than it needs.


4. What is the most logical plane to add to my arsenal next? I am thinking that a Jack or Jointer Plane would be nice, but can't decide on what would be the most versatile
Depends on whether you use a powered jointer/thicknesser, buy rough sawn or PAR (oops - that might be English english - pre-planed stock), and what size projects you are doing.
My inclination, which may be a bit unusual (so do listen to the ensuing howls - they're probably right,) would be to plump for the middle option - an 18" #6 fore plane - with a spare blade, so one can be cambered for initial prep and squaring (i.e. 'trying') and the other straight or just slightly relieved for jointing and flattening.

[Steve Hamlin]

Tearout links from Chris Schwartz' Lost Art Press blog:
http://blog.lostartpress.com/2007/11/30/The+No+1+Way+To+Reduce+Tearout.aspx
http://blog.lostartpress.com/2007/12/04/Look+Sharp+The+No+2+Way+To+Reduce+Tearout.aspx
http://blog.lostartpress.com/2007/12/08/Think+Small+The+No+3+Way+To+Reduce+Tearout.aspx
http://blog.lostartpress.com/2007/12/15/Perfect+Pitch+The+No+4+Way+To+Reduce+Tearout.aspx
http://blog.lostartpress.com/2007/12/22/Button+Your+Lip+The+No+5+Way+To+Reduce+Tearout.asp x
http://blog.lostartpress.com/2007/12/31/Chipbreakers+The+No+6+Way+To+Reduce+Tearout.aspx
http://blog.lostartpress.com/2008/01/06/Skewing+The+No+7+Way+To+Reduce+Tearout.aspx
http://blog.lostartpress.com/2008/02/03/Taming+Handplane+Tearout+Two+Addendums.aspx
HTH
Steve

[Brian J. Williams]

Adam-

I use my 4-1/2 quite a bit on hardwoods, and it generally does it part if I do mine (kind of like shooting). My part is keeping the iron sharp. I use a variation of the "scary sharp" method, which is basically using progressively finer grits of wet-or-dry sandpaper and fluid (I use WD-40, but different guys use different things). I work my irons up to about 1500 grit, and that seems to work fairly well.

I also use one of the Veritas Mark II sharpening jigs. Some may say you need to hand-sharpen only, but my hands aren't that steady. Using a jig simply helps maintain a consistent angle, and consistency is what counts.

Back to the 4-1/2 and reversing grain. So, you're getting tearout? Well, welcome to the club. I'm currently working some really wild quarter-sawn white oak, and there are spots that all I can do is scrape. I've even got one of my 4-1/2 irons set up with a 15-degree back-bevel (that means you hone a 15 degree bevel on the upper side of the iron, making an effective 60-degree cutting angle). That helped a gread deal, and as mentioned above, I'm taking whisper-thin shavings. But, even going to those lengths, you can still end up with tearout on those wild reversing figures. You can try to attack it from several angles, too, that may help.

I really like my 4-1/2, but it does have it's limitations. The biggest one (in my opinion) is the thin iron. When you put the 15-degree back-bevel on the iron, it chatters ever so slightly, but enough to cause tearout. I've been considering installating a Lee Valley iron (thicker than the original Stanley) and then giving it a 15-degree back-bevel. barring that, your next stop may be an infill smoother, which can lead to some larger dollars. I ran a very well tuned Norris (I think an A-17) over some heavily figured bubinga. Now, you couldn't even dent it with a Stanley 4-1/4, but the Norris left it like glass. The difference? Much, much heavier iron, and a 55 degree pitch (or tilt) to the iron. The Norris had a very fine set to the mouth, and it likely wouldn't be a whole lot of use for anything else, but I think that that plane would work long after the bubinga left other planes on their knees.

Sorry about being long-winded here. Good luck and stick with it.

Brian, in -10F Montana.

[Jim Koepke]

All the above...

For reversing grain, smaller planes come in handy. A #3 can be maneuvered easier for small strokes in the reversing grain area. If they can be afforded, a #2, #1 or some block planes are also helpful here.

I get snipe when thick shavings are being taken.

Thin cuts and registering the plane properly help. registering is merely setting the front of the plane solidly on the piece being worked before pushing the plane forward. Keep the weight on the front of the plane until the tote is well over the work, then shift the weight toward the tote. By the time the front of the plane is coming off the end, all the pressure should be on the tote.

If the work piece is a rough sawn edge, my practice is to "float" the plane over the top until some of the high bumps are cut down before applying much pressure.

Not knowing the woods and types of work you intend to do it is difficult to advise on what planes would work best.

If you have the opportunity to buy used Stanley planes at yard sales and such, you may be able to get a few fairly cheap. For short boards, a #5 is a very versatile plane. Just expect to do a lot of work on the plane before doing much work with it. Sometimes you get lucky and all that needs to be done is some cleaning and sharpening. My shop is set up with two #5 Stanley's. One has the mouth set fairly wide open and takes heavy cuts. The other the mouth is pretty much closed and is set for thin wisps of a cut. Both of them together cost less the $30.
All the planes in my shop from a #3 through a #7 were less than $40 each.

Even with the mouth set tight, a sharp blade and a wispy cut one can still get tear out. Skewing the plane can help. The blade is more slicing the wood than lifting it up.

If you are working a lot of real hard wood, a steeper frog and a thicker blade should help. Some of those hard woods just do not want to give it up to the lesser planes. I was trying to plane a piece last night, and there were some spots where the plane just slide across the wood. Then, when it did get a bite of wood, it would stop dead in its tracks.

Bob Smalser posted a thread about modifying a Stanley frog to a steeper pitch. If you do a little metal work, it might be a fun project. If you have a friend to do the soldering, it could still be fun.

As far as sharpening goes, I am too cheap to buy a guide for manual sharpening, so instead, the time was taken to learn the steady hand approach. You will likely get great results quicker with a guide. When you get to my point of having a lot of things to sharpen, changing the guide from blade to blade or going through all the grits with one blade and going back and starting all over with the next blade will become a hassle.

My practice is to have spare blades for my planes. When it comes time to sharpen, there may be anywhere from five to ten blades or more that need some work.

A 4000 stone can get a blade sharp. An 8000 stone can get it sharper.
A 4000 stone has a particle size of 2 microns, an 8000 is at 1 micron.
1500 abrasive paper is about 3 microns and 2000 paper is about 1 micron. These papers should be available through auto supply stores. Especially if they cater to those who do auto finishing.

Hope this helps more than it confuses,

jim

[Adam Johan Bergren]

Thanks all!!

The information is very useful, especially those Chris Schwarz links. I think half of the problem is my plane set up and the other half is my technique. At least I now know where to start in order to correct things!

Jim-
Your post was indeed helpful, but I do have some follow up questions:
1.You say that to keep the pressure on the toe in order to register the plane. This makes perfect sense and it what I have been trying to do. However, it seems to result in me placing a lot of pressure on the toe initially, which it seems may actually be exacerbating the problem. Do you push down on the front knob just hard enough to keep the plane flat and registered, or try to use both hands to keep it balanced in the correct plane?

2. Although a 1 micron particle size will definitely leave smaller scratches than a 2 micron size stone, and therefore get the blade sharper, is this really beneficial? Does the "extra sharpness" that is obtained last any significant amount of time? I have actually imaged surfaces polished with different grits of abrasive, so I know what kind of difference it can make visually and to the chemical and physical properties of the system , but I am unsure of how that would translate to the usable sharpness of a plane iron.

Thanks again!

[Chris Schumann]

Mr. Schwarz said in his talk at WIA that a sharp edge cuts better, and that the shinier it is, the longer the edge will last. It tempts me to get out the rouge and polish the bevel once just to see how long it will last.

[Hank Knight]

Recently Wilbur Pan posted sign in his shop that reads:

(1)-When a plane starts to tear out, stop and sharpen the iron.
(2) If that doesn't work, go back to step one.

That's actually a paraphrase. I think Wilbur's rule addressed any edge tool misbehavior. It's a good rule. Most (not all, but most) tool misbehavior can be corrected with a good sharpening. I think tear out, especially on common American hardwoods, can almost always be corrected by sharpening the iron. This assumes the plane is reasonabley well set up to start with.

The original question was whether an 8000 grit stone (or some stone finer that a 4,000) is a necessary final step in the sharpening. IMHO finishing with a "polishing" or "finish" stone is necessary -especially for a tool that's expected to make a fine cut. Here's why.

At the microscopic level, a sharpened edge is serrated. The size of the serrations depends on then size of the grit in the sharpening medium. The larger the grit, the larger the serrations. In the wear process, the teeth of the serratons break off, leaving a blunt space on the edge. The larger the teeth - those left by a coarse stone - the larger the blunt space and the quicker you notice a fall-off in the performance of the blade, I.E., it gets noticeably dull. And, of course, the larger teeth take larger gouges out of the workpiece to begin with so the surface they leave is not as smooth as a surface left by a finer edge - an edge finished with a finer stone with smaller serrations (remember, we're talking about the surface at the microscopic level). This is why a finer stone produces a better edge for fine shavings: (1) The edge has smaller serrations (is "sharper") and produces a smoother surface to begin with, and (2) because the serrations that break off during use are small, the edge breaks down slower in the wear process and it stays "sharp" longer.

My $.02.

Hank

[Will Blick]

To further Hanks position.... when I became a Neander, I stopped at 8k stone. Still not 100% success, then I sharpened more often, better success. Then, 15k stone, even better success (in troubling wood) and now have graducated up to a 30k stone, and all my problems are gone, assuming I keep the blade honed.

Wilbur is sooo right... an ultra sharp blade, and the "best" cutting angle overcomes sooo many planing problems.... makes it a joy....

[Jim Koepke]

1.You say that to keep the pressure on the toe in order to register the plane. This makes perfect sense and it what I have been trying to do. However, it seems to result in me placing a lot of pressure on the toe initially, which it seems may actually be exacerbating the problem. Do you push down on the front knob just hard enough to keep the plane flat and registered, or try to use both hands to keep it balanced in the correct plane?

My palm is usually on top of the knob. The fingers on one side and my thumb on the other. Not a whole lot of pressure. If the plane is skipping out of the cut, then sharpness may be the issue. The plane should not be set for taking all the wood off in one swipe.

Sometimes my thumb is kind of behind the knob and the rest of my hand is at the side of the plane, sometimes with fingers touching the sole, trying to hold it true. In most cases, only enough pressure to keep the plane on the wood is being applied. The tote hand at this point is mostly pushing the plane forward and holding it either straight or a skew depending on the wood and other factors. The moving of downward pressure from knob hand to tote hand is mostly to keep the plane from rounding over the ends. The plane should travel with the sole in the same plane as much as is practicable.

If a plane has not been used in a while, a piece of scrap can be used to test the cut. Working in the shop regularly, the set of most of my planes is known.

As said before, my method is to often have two planes set different. Yesterday, a wavy board was being attacked. A #5 taking thick shavings was put to the edge. When a continuous shaving was produced along the full length of the edge, a different #5, set for whispering the wood off, was used for a couple of swipes. The result was a square edge, smooth like glass.


2. Although a 1 micron particle size will definitely leave smaller scratches than a 2 micron size stone, and therefore get the blade sharper, is this really beneficial? Does the "extra sharpness" that is obtained last any significant amount of time? I have actually imaged surfaces polished with different grits of abrasive, so I know what kind of difference it can make visually and to the chemical and physical properties of the system , but I am unsure of how that would translate to the usable sharpness of a plane iron.

Thanks again!

You are welcome, others have answered this much better than I could.

Consider though, a blade sharpened with the finer stone will dull to the point of sharpness achieved with a coarser stone before it gets duller than the sharpness achieved with the coarser stone.

I do not fine hone with a strop too often, but still do on occasion.
There are degrees of sharpness. My favorite is when testing the blade on my arm hair and it seems to not be doing anything, then I notice a pile of hair on the blade when it is lifted and a smooth patch where it traveled. It is not just sharp enough to cut hair, it cuts every hair and there is no sensation of the hair being snagged. That is pretty sharp. I am sure with the finer stones like Will uses, the hairs might just see it coming and fall over before being touched.

Then remember, what seems sharp today, with learning and improvement will seem dull tomorrow.

jim

[Hank Knight]

now have graducated up to a 30k stone, and all my problems are gone....

Will,

Where can I get a 30K stone?? :D

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

Hank

[Will Blick]

I have the Shapton 30k stone..... it is silky smooth, its hard to fathom it sharpens.... it only takes 30 seconds...

> It is not just sharp enough to cut hair, it cuts every hair and there is no sensation of the hair being snagged. That is pretty sharp. I am sure with the finer stones like Will uses, the hairs might just see it coming and fall over before being touched.


heee hee.... I fully agree about the hair on the arm test.... human hair is TOUGH to cut, specially without snagging. As you suggest, if it easily cuts through arm hair, its sharp enough for ww ! I have OCD, so sometimes I over-do the sharpening thing.... and interestingly enough, I have tough arm hair, very thick, and I must get to 15k stone before it cuts smooth, while I can shave others peoples arms with only a 4 - 8k stone....so you have to be a bit careful evaluating everything from the arm hair test.... oh yeah, the blades with the lowest angles also cut the arm hair the best, so that is another thing to consider. I often run out of arm hair :-)


> Then remember, what seems sharp today, with learning and improvement will seem dull tomorrow.

yes, this is a slippery slope indeed.....some of us just slide right down it, like walking off a cliff blindfolded... not sure the appeal, but there is a fascination with an edge this sharp. After 30k stones, i went to 1/4 micron diamond paste, another step up...and the truest mirror finish I have ever seen, but I can't say it cuts any better.... so I pulled back off the paste.....plus, I love the ease-of-use stones offer.


I used to think it was just me... but when I see my non ww friends grab my planes and start shaving, they too become obsessed with how little force it takes to create see-through shavings from hardwoods...

[Jim Koepke]

At a show one time, my fascination was piqued when a shoulder plane was being pushed across a piece of wood and it felt like the blade was not engaging. Lifting the plane and looking at the mouth from the side revealed a full length shaving had been taken.

That is the show where my 8000 stone was purchased.

jim

[Will Blick]

Remember, the shoulder plane has less than half the cutting length as a plane blade..... so to equal that feel for plane blades, you must up the ante...

Jim, it's time to move to 15k :-) slide down that slope.....

I won't push ya to 30k, cause the gain is not as "noticeable", but I would sure like to hear your reactions with the 15k Shapton Pro. My feel is, the 15k jump is "almost" equal to the 4k to 8k jump.... but not quite... 8k gives the biggest bang for the buck...

http://tinyurl.com/7a9gas

[Arnold E Schnitzer]

I work with a lot of figured wood. Aside from extreme blade sharpness, I have two small suggestions: 1)Plane across, or at an angle to the grain, and 2) dampen the wood slightly. I simply give it a little spritz from an atomizer, then rub the moisture around with my palm.

I think it's already been mentioned, but on flat surfaces it's crucial that your plane bottom be dead flat. Enjoy!

[Hank Knight]

Jim, it's time to move to 15k :-) slide down that slope.....[/B]

In my humble opinion, the jump from Will's current 4K stone all the away to a 15K Shapton is too large a jump. He needs something in between or he'll wear himself out on the 15K.

I agree with both of Arnold's suggestions. They're good ones and they will help with really tough, gnarly grain.

Hank

[Phillip Pattee]

Japan Woodworker has the 30K Shapton professional stone.
http://www.japanwoodworker.com/product.asp?s=JapanWoodworker&pf_id=01%2E023%2E0000&dept_id=13237 This comes with a high price though. Does it produce a keener edge than a strop and LV green honing compound?

As for the inital post. Try getting the sharpest blade you can with the sharpening setup you have. Second, set the blade for very thin shavings and set the mouth very tight. Try planing in different directions with the rising grain, cross grain, and against the rising grain. Conventional wisdom says you will get the least tearout by planing with the rising grain.

Now, you said you were using a 4 1/2, which is a wide plane. If you are planing flat sawn lumber, and the area of tearout is where there is a pronounced curved grain pattern, it is possible that you are getting some cutting action cross grain and with grain at the same time. For example, 1 inch of your blade is cutting with the rising grain while the 1 inch to the left is cuting cross grain, and the 3/8 inch to the right is cutting cross grain--and where you are cross grain you may be creating the tear out. I think the remedy, if this is the case, is to try a plane with a blade that isn't so wide. If you have a #3 give it a try, also give your block plane a whirl. You could go so far as trying a shoulder or rabbet plane with a 1 inch or even a 3/4 inch blade--not what they were created for, but they have a flat sole and a narrow blade.

Each board is unique though and sometimes there is just a finicky spot. If you can't plane it scrape it.

[Arnold E Schnitzer]

Another thing I thought of...you don't want to use a low-angle plane on figured wood. I have a York-pitch frog on my jointer plane, which raises the angle from 45 to 50 degrees (I think). Low angle planes tend to dig into the figure. Are you using an up or down bevel plane?

[Joe Cunningham]

I have the Shapton 1K, 4K and 8K. Sharp enough to leave a very nice surface, even in birdseye maple (the most figured wood I've worked with to date).

The 16K stone is pricey and the 30K more so--I think I'd buy a LV low-angle jointer before I spent the same money on a sharpening stone ($280). At this point in the OP's slide down the slope, I think he can do better with the wet/dry sandpaper. Maybe $15 at a local automotive store.

I have the ceramic stones, not the pro stone Phillip linked to. I got mine at the local woodcraft.

http://shaptonstones.com

[JohnMorgan of Lititz]

I'm just reading along here trying to pick up pointers for similar situations. I'm all about having my irons sharp, but how long does a good A2 LN blade for example stay sharp when you guys use these 15k or 30k stones?

I would think after a few short passes that extremely fine honed blade will be down to what my 8k could hone it to. How do you know where to draw that line? maybe its based purely on results. Seems a bit out of hand to spend large dollars on such high grit stones - but again maybe for those crazy grained pieces of wood you need such a fine edge to get a solid result.

Ahhh...the slippery slope of sharpening. :)

[Dave Anderson NH]

Hi John, There is no easy exact answer about when to sharpen. Every wood will be different and abrade the cutting edge at a different rate. There are two things that I would mention as being important to remember.

1) Most people do not sharpen as often as they need to for optimum results. This is often due to having their sharpening setup too far away from where they work and they perceive sharpening as a time consuming chore which interrupts their work. Provided you haven't nicked the blade, a quick resharpen/hone of your cutting edge should take no more than 2 minutes at the maximum, including removing and reinstalling the blade. If it takes more time, you need to re-examine your sharpening technique and setup.

2) This is where only time with a tool and experience will offer you the answer. It is time to resharpen when you notice any of the following: the plane becomes harder to push, the quality of the surface isn't as shiny, the surface doesn't feel as silky smoothe, or you notice the plane becoming harder to start on the end of a board. Note that some woods such as mahogany or sometimes walnut will have to be blown off before you can feel the smoothness or see the shinyness.

[John Keeton]

Let me first acknowledge that I am nowhere near a neander, and have only recently moved to a scary sharp system. But, for about $100, I purchased what must be a lifetime supply of 7 grits of sandpaper, ranging up to 2,000. I get an edge that will easily lift the hair from my arm, and a mirror surface that I could use to shave with were it larger. I understand the needs of others, but for me, this is "good enough."

On the issue of difficult grain, my new LV BU jack with a 50* blade will lay down a slick surface across nearly anything put in front of it. And, I agree with Dave on the need to frequently touch up the blade.

[Peter Quadarella]

My problem with frequent touch ups is space. I think to do it right, you need a dedicated spot for your stones, out all the time. The other problem is that I use water stones, and I have no place to change the water - I have to keep going outside to the spigot or to the kitchen sink.

Therefore I tend to use a plane or chisel until it is dull, then move onto the next one - and so on - hopefully they last until my project is done and I can clean up and sharpen all my blades again.

[Will Blick]

Some great comments, all valid... and i certainly am not suggesting everyone jump to 30k stones. If the $ was between a new plane that you do not own, vs. a new stone, that is a no brainer... obviously the 30k stones are expensive, but the 15k are reasonable... (on a relative basis)

As for continued sharpening.... I find the best solution is several blades.... change blades, till all are dull, then sharpen all at once... again, more $$ as you need more blades.. hey, it's ww, a money pit of a hobby....right?

I think a 30k sharpened blade will NOT return to a 4k edge after a short use.... instead, when I hone to 30k, i re-hone at 15k/30k, never going back to 8k. But the nick sizes are relevant here.... so how long you wait to re-hone is also important, as the longer you use a blade, than I do agree, the lower grit you must start with during re-hone.

It's all a balancing act...lots of options, and some common sense is mandatory to hone in on whats best for each person.

[Jim Koepke]

Remember, the shoulder plane has less than half the cutting length as a plane blade..... so to equal that feel for plane blades, you must up the ante...

Jim, it's time to move to 15k :-) slide down that slope.....

I won't push ya to 30k, cause the gain is not as "noticeable", but I would sure like to hear your reactions with the 15k Shapton Pro. My feel is, the 15k jump is "almost" equal to the 4k to 8k jump.... but not quite... 8k gives the biggest bang for the buck...

http://tinyurl.com/7a9gas




If you can convince my wife that I need one... then I will buy one. For that kind of money though, I will wait until a good check comes in then see if she will let me get one.

She did seem a little soft today. Early in the month, we still have some cash. She let me buy an old Stanley R & L Co. 9 inch try square and a double bladed Geo H. Bishop back saw. They both need a little work, pretty much finished with the square.

I agree with the several blades approach. I must have a dozen 2 inch blades and at least two each of all the other sizes my planes use.

As for chisels, likely the 3/4 inch is my most common size, must have a half a dozen of those. Most of the other sizes there are 4 or 5.

jim