Turnkey woodworking business?

[Jason White]

Is this too good to be true?

http://www.eureka-business.com/Eureka_II_200.pdf?PHPSESSID=78cc684a985c586721ccd6 57989eb72e

Anybody here have any success with this?

Jason

[Paul Steiner]

I have seen these guys at woodworking shows and studied their literature. The business they are selling is the manufacture and selling of adirondack chairs and adirondack style furniture.

First the manufacture of the ADK furniture: They sell materials, methods, plans for jigs, and information on how to quickly make this furniture. (So not only are they making $ on the turnkey fee but on materials too)
They had some of the jigs on display at this show and they are simple jigs, cabinet ply and toggle clamps. Have you ever built an ADK chair? I have built several and my guess is that most creekers can come up with their own ways to mass produce this furniture on their own and find cheaper sources for lumber. Also eureka does not use automation, personally I would spend my money on a shopbot instead of a turnkey fee.

Second the selling and marketing: Eureka does provide marketing help if you buy the premium turnkey package and this includes the logo licensing. But they encouarge you to sell at craftshows, fairs, etc, on weekends, deal breaker for me.

I think there is probably more "pros and cons" to the eureka franchise but I think there are better business oppurtunities out there. Also I bet that you could probably find better projects to sell for a profit.

[Jason White]

Just sounded interesting. I can't imagine what their fees are.

JW


I have seen these guys at woodworking shows and studied their literature. The business they are selling is the manufacture and selling of adirondack chairs and adirondack style furniture.

First the manufacture of the ADK furniture: They sell materials, methods, plans for jigs, and information on how to quickly make this furniture. (So not only are they making $ on the turnkey fee but on materials too)
They had some of the jigs on display at this show and they are simple jigs, cabinet ply and toggle clamps. Have you ever built an ADK chair? I have built several and my guess is that most creekers can come up with their own ways to mass produce this furniture on their own and find cheaper sources for lumber. Also eureka does not use automation, personally I would spend my money on a shopbot instead of a turnkey fee.

Second the selling and marketing: Eureka does provide marketing help if you buy the premium turnkey package and this includes the logo licensing. But they encouarge you to sell at craftshows, fairs, etc, on weekends, deal breaker for me.

I think there is probably more "pros and cons" to the eureka franchise but I think there are better business oppurtunities out there. Also I bet that you could probably find better projects to sell for a profit.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

the toughest part of any business is getting and keeping customers.
If they are not helping you with that by putting your ad in all the right journals and websites then, all they are selling you is drawings on paper or some such.

You can design your own better out door furniture.

[Chuck Tringo]

if you want to try the franchise thing, look into opening a woodcraft or rockler, theres never one where i live and always have to drive over an hour to get to one :cool:

[Lee Koepke]

My .02

It says they are 'not a franchise' but their marketing and support feels like a franchise.

Wife and I just opened a franchise retail business one month ago, alot of thought goes into that kind of venture.

The one question that my CPA asked me really stands out....

"Do they provide something extra-ordinary or unique for the fee you pay them"

well, in our case that answer was a resounding YES. If you do consider that venture, ask yourself that very question. My initial thoughts are the same as the others here, the key to success is customer base. If they dont give you VERY specific avenues to build / retain a customer base, you will struggle. Building that kind of furniture is not complex and most woodworkers build jigs anyway. Thus, the easy part of their plan is building / supplying ... the hard part is selling.

Good luck whatever you choose, befriend some good advisors and think it thru, you will do fine.

[Mike Heidrick]

This summed it up for me (although I am taking it out of context by ignoring the next few sentances), and it is advice for the reader direct from the owner....


"Harry Wilk tried to buy into just such an opportunity, only to realize he could do it much better."

[John Schreiber]

This summed it up for me (although I am taking it out of context by ignoring the next few sentances), and it is advice for the reader direct from the owner....


"Harry Wilk tried to buy into just such an opportunity, only to realize he could do it much better."

I don't think it can be said better than that.

[Andrew Joiner]

Most mass produced furniture sold in the US is now made "offshore". Many big American furniture companies struggled for years to keep plants going here.
They even owned the plants and machinery outright.They had established brands,trained labor,distribution and customers all set-up.
If they couldn't figure out how to do it can we?
I hope that's not to blunt. These facts are well know to those who follow the US furniture business.

Of course it is possible to make money doing woodworking. Cabinets and millwork were probably more profitable than furniture until it all slowed down. Right now the next generation of woodworkers is tooling up for the future.
If I wanted to build Adirondack furniture now a make a profit. I would first check around at the retail level and see if any of it is built "offshore". If so I bet you can find fairly well made stuff for sale at a price close to what your materials would cost not even including labor. Sad I know.

The good part is, in some rare cases talented people like us woodworkers can come up with a UNIQUE product that people will pay more for. If you produce and market your product efficiently, you may have a chance. I would study Thos Moser and the few other rare US makers still able to survive. Find out what they are doing that makes them different.

Paying Eureka $6,000 for jigs, plans and advice doesn't give you a head start in the unique area! In fact it guarentee's your stuff will be like all Eureka stuff!

Just my 2cents.

[Andrew Joiner]

I don't think it can be said better than that.

If you read the whole thing I think Harry Wilk did buy into the franchise to make chairs and then bought the whole franchise system.

But THAT say's a lot. He may have been thinking "Why bust my butt breathing dust when I can sit at a desk?"

[James Hart]

My .02

If they dont give you VERY specific avenues to build / retain a customer base, you will struggle. Building that kind of furniture is not complex and most woodworkers build jigs anyway. Thus, the easy part of their plan is building / supplying ... the hard part is selling.


Even if they tell you what to do, and most don't, very few startups budget an appropriate amount to cover initial and ongoing marketing costs.

Factor in the later post which pointed out that you will probably find imported products selling at about your raw material costs, then add the marketing cost per sale and it's unlikely you will be too excited about this opportunity.

Jim

[Paul Steiner]

I remember the Eureka fees ranging $5000 to $15000 depending on the package. The guy or presenter at the booth was really talking up the craftshow business. The advantage of a craftshow business is that there is very little marketing you have to do on your own. Maybe print a brochure or business card. Also the people at craftshows want to buy nice crafty american goods, not chinese goods. A friend of mine is retired and made +$20K selling birdhouses at craftshows.
The downside is that you have to give up your weekends to sell at craftshows. My friend enjoys this, but I would not do it. Also shows charge fees, you have to travel, and there is competition among crafters.

[James Hart]

A friend of mines daughter asked him for $$ to attend culinary school. He asked what her end game was. She said she wanted to open a restaurant.

He told her he would loan her money to open a restaurant and they would hire a chef. Opening a restaurant, then becoming the cook, is not creating a business, it's creating a job.

To me, sitting at craft shows, following them around and hauling your stuff, would be a horrible job that would get old real fast. On one level, this looks like 'low-cost marketing.' On another, it's the highest cost there is, your time.

To each his own.

Jim

[Neal Clayton]

Most mass produced furniture sold in the US is now made "offshore". Many big American furniture companies struggled for years to keep plants going here.
They even owned the plants and machinery outright.They had established brands,trained labor,distribution and customers all set-up.
If they couldn't figure out how to do it can we?
I hope that's not to blunt. These facts are well know to those who follow the US furniture business.

Of course it is possible to make money doing woodworking. Cabinets and millwork were probably more profitable than furniture until it all slowed down. Right now the next generation of woodworkers is tooling up for the future.
If I wanted to build Adirondack furniture now a make a profit. I would first check around at the retail level and see if any of it is built "offshore". If so I bet you can find fairly well made stuff for sale at a price close to what your materials would cost not even including labor. Sad I know.

The good part is, in some rare cases talented people like us woodworkers can come up with a UNIQUE product that people will pay more for. If you produce and market your product efficiently, you may have a chance. I would study Thos Moser and the few other rare US makers still able to survive. Find out what they are doing that makes them different.

Paying Eureka $6,000 for jigs, plans and advice doesn't give you a head start in the unique area! In fact it guarentee's your stuff will be like all Eureka stuff!

Just my 2cents.

i agree with all of the above. the reason i build the things i build are because they are too expensive to buy, or no one builds them anymore so to have them built would be custom work, which goes along with the expensive point. i don't see how anyone can feasibly make a living making things that people can buy for half the price somewhere else. and no matter how good you are, patio furniture is patio furniture. someone might pay 10, 20, 30 thousand dollars plus for an elaborate custom dining room table and chairs, but they're not paying you more than a couple hundred bucks for that wood patio chair no matter how you made it or what you made it with.

plus when you figure the time spent sitting around at those craft shows as well as travel to and from, everyone there is making minimum wage or less.