tool sharpening

[Gordon Thompson]

Hi everyone, I'm Gordon, from Madison WI.

I have a couple of questions on tool maintenance, if you don't mind...

First off, let me say that I am brand new to this hobby, and am reading/learning as much as possible. I have a JET 1014I arriving in a couple of weeks.

This hobby fascinates me, and I really think I will enjoy it, am looking forward to getting started.

Been reading on the sharpening of the tools, and sharpening anything is a weak point for me....

How long will an average tool hold it's edge? My plan is to get the HF windsor set (like everyone else, budget considerations are paramount - got a kid about to start college).

I have a grinder, but it's a 6 inch one. Can tools be sharpened on this? will I wallow them?

If I do need an 8 inch wheel - is it feasable to mount one in the lathe itself? I don't want to have to go buy a new grinder. If a 6 inch wheel isn't good for this, I was thinking of the Grizzly Razor Sharp wheel mounted with a drill press chuck. - or could one mount this in their drill press itself?

Thanks for your answers in advance.

[Moshe Eshel]

Hi Gordon, welcome!

I'll try to answer your questions:
1. It really depends on how you use the tool (gentle cuts Vs. Aggressive etc.) and on what (types of wood, plastic, etc...) - also of course depends on the quality of the tool - for example HF lasts less than Hamlet. that being said it is not a bad set to learn how to sharpen on, but it would be advised to have someone show you - as alone you are more likely to make mistakes that will frustrate you (without understanding the mistake)

2. 6" inch is fine, I have seen Woodturning masters (more than one) sharpen on a 6" grinder, you just need to be a little carefull as the follow it creates is a bit larger than the 8" - personally I'm kind of sorry I bought the 8" as the wheels are much more expensive...

3. No, do not mount grinding wheels on the lathe - as far as I know this is not a particularly safe thing to do - also it will force you to dismount any work you have on the lathe in order to sharpen - not a good workflow - as you'll have to re-center the work each time, not a fun thing...

All the best, and ENJOY your new hobby - I do!

[Jeff Nicol]

Gordon, Good to see you on SMC and welcome! I am a fellow Wisconsinite and live in Eau Claire. I have 2 different grinders one is a standard 6" with 2 wheels a 60 grit and a loo grit. It is not a slow speed or variable speed so care is taken not to put much pressure on the tool and keep it moving. I wish I had a varible speed but maybe some day. The other is a delta with the slow horizontal wheel on top and a 2" wide by 5" dia. I got it cheap and use it for my small scrapers and mini tools. Some guys use a belt sander also but I like the round wheel better.

Good luck with the new lathe and have fun!

Hope your new year is great!

Jeff

[Gordon Thompson]

Thanks Moshe,

Initially all I plan on turning is wood. Pens is where I want to start. How long (roughly), would a tool hold it edge on a hardwood? Should one expect to sharpen before the completion of one pen?

What grit/color wheel does one use to grind on the tools?


Thanks again!!!!

[Bernie Weishapl]

Welcome Gordon to SMC. Lots of good people and lots of knowledge.

As far as how long will the tool hold a edge? It will depend a lot on the wood. I turned some black locust which is like turning concrete when dry and went to the grinder about every 5 to 8 cuts. Other woods you may be able to turn for quite a while before going back to the grinder. As you gain experience you will be able to tell just by the cut if you need to touch up your tool. As for pens I complete pens without having to go to the grinder to touch up.

IMHO as far as the grinder goes I had a 6" when I started and got so upset with it trying to sharpen tools I finally gave up and bought the slow speed grinder from Woodcraft. They have a pretty decent setup now with the grinder plus the wolverine jig for $169.95 called Woodturners sharpening kit. The grinder will come with good grinding wheels.

If sharpening is a weak point which it was for me I would recommend the wolverine jig for sharpening. With the different jigs you get the same profile on your tools every time.

I would not mount a grinding wheel on my lathe. One because I don't think it is a safe idea and two I don't want to get metal particles on or in my lathe especially the bearing.

[Gordon Thompson]

Hi Jeff!

enough snow for ya this past month :):)

a 60 and a 100 grit wheel is the proper way to go?

I do have a bench top belt sander - would that do a better job? same grits?

Thanks for bearing with all my questions everyone.

[Steve Schlumpf]

Gordon - Welcome to the Creek! I started off with a 6" grinder and Wolverine system and changed one wheel to 120 grit. Didn't want to reshape the tools most of the time - just touch up the edge. I eventually changed over to the Woodcraft slow speed grinder as it gives less of a hollow grind on the tool and also removes less metal. I am currently running a 120 grit and a 150 grit wheel and they work great for me but I am just maintaining edges and not experimenting with any new ones.

Lots of options out there and worth considering but for now - your 6" grinder should work just fine!

[Jeff Nicol]

Gordon, I have a bunch of cheaper tools that I use all the time along with the more expensive ones. The windsor tools look good to start with to me. I have looked at them many times at HF. The benchtop sander would work for now but a grinder will do a better job IMHO. The grinder leaves the hollow ground or the cove I stated earlier and on most tool it is easier to keep the bevel rubbing with the hollow grind off the 6" or 8" wheel.

If you ever get up this way stop in In,I would gladly give you some pointers on how to go about it. I am home more than not! I am ready for the snow to stop any time, but a couple more months at least!

Have a great day!

Jeff

[Bill Mitchel]

Hey Gordon

Welcome and as usual great advice from everyone. I will chime in and say I was just in the same position as you about 5 months ago. I use a 6 inch grinder with a gray wheel 60 grit (I think) and a 100 grit white wheel, just be careful with the speed and use light pressure - it will heat up and loose the temper (you can tell - it will turn blue). I can say that buying the Wolverine grinding jig was some of the best money I spent. I am horrible at sharpening and the jig makes it very easy. I also bought the Vari grind and it sharpens a fingernail grind flawlessly and consistently.

Have fun and be safe
Bill

[Dennis Peacock]

Howdy Gordon and welcome to The Creek.!!! Happy New Year from Conway, AR. :D

[Dean Thomas]

Welcome to the home of the opinion! We are many and so are our opinions!!! :D

Yes, 6" wheels can be used. Yes, the concave bevel is more significant than on on 8" wheel or a strip sander. Shopsmith corporate thinks that using the strip sander is just fine, and I'm sure that there are others. I say use the wheels.

No, don't mount 'em on your lathe. For most projects that are of any size, you're going to have to sharpen your tool(s) more than once. If you choose to hone your tools, you'll probably still have to sharpen your tools for at least the final cuts. It would be more than annoying to have to unmount your project, mount wheels, grind, and then remount the project. Having your grinding set up so that you can spend less than 10 seconds putting a new edge on the tool is a wonderful thing.

Everybody has an opinion on what grits to use. One "name" turner uses two 100 grit wheels! Oneway has their idea of how to use their system. They have videos on their site on how to use the Wolverine system and they will tell you what grits they recommend and why. I think they use 60 and 100. Anyhow, I bought what they suggested. They are not making money from the grits, just telling how to make their system do my tools proud. Worked for me.

Most have at least one opinion on what speed grinder to use--slow, fast, dual, variable. And some will then venture further opinions on whether or not to Tormec. And whether to learn to sharpen freehand (HUGE tool waster, IMHO) or to use Wolverine or any of the three or four other systems out there.

Unless you've got tons of bucks to burn and more time than most of us to play on this thing, don't reinvent the sharpening wheel (pun intended). Get a system that works and it will work for you, too, and for a long time. When your 6" wheels get to be 4.5" wheels, you'll be wondering if it's time to upgrade more than the wheels. By then, you'll have more opinions and more experience and be able to make a more informed decision about what YOU need in a sharpening system.

Hope that helps. Tried hard not to sound cynical or preachy. This is a thorny subject that can drive a newbie nuts trying to analyze all the aspects. Don't let it do that. Buy reasonable quality and use a system. That will reduce the learning curve and provide you with a better edge and more time turning with less time grinding.

[Jeff Nicol]

I have a oneway sharpening jig and the only tool I use it on is my 5/8" Ellsworth gouge. The rest I do by hand and have no trouble doing it. Like anything if you do it every day you will get good at it!

Slow speed is good but patience is great!

Jeff

[Alan Huey]

agree with all of the above.
6" wheels work great. I just ponied up for the Wolverine system and love it.
Definately DO NOT use a wheel mounted on your lathe. Not only is it not safe, but also extremely inconvenient.

Turn, turn, turn.
It is great fun.

[George Clark]

Gordon,

As to how long an edge will last turning hardwood pens, I have turned over 15 pens, almost all stabilized wood, without going to the grinder. I do however, hone my tools frequently with a 600 grit diamond hone sold by Alan Lacer and I use the method he teaches. Basically, two points of contact on a hollow ground tool. It works well for me until the hollow is almost gone.

George

[Gordon Thompson]

Thank you all for your thoughts and opinions. I appreciate the advice :)

I can tell I have more learning to do, before I get started - hahahaha

what does hollow ground mean?

[Tom Wilson66]

When you sharpen on a grinder, the round wheel will leave a concave (hollow) bevel on the tool, as opposed to a flat bevel left by a belt sander or a sharpening stone. Welcome to the Creek, glad you're here.:)

[Dick Strauss]

Welcome,
A 6" grinder is fine for now. I'd recommend the Wolverine system when you have a few more $$$$. The HF HSS tool set is a good place to start.

[Keith Spaniel]

Hi Gordon,
I use a belt sander to sharpen all my tools. The speed is slow. You just have to get some different ideas on how to keep your angles and then mark them on your jig . This sorby is what I base my sander from.If you are going to get a stone grinder you will need the wolverine jig ,or something like it.
It takes a little while to get the hang of sharpening but dont worry about grinding your tools away. You would have to turn for 10 years to wear your tools out.Buying lower priced set is good. When you know what your doing you can buy some better, bigger,beefier tools one at a time. Dont be afaid to grind them tools, keep dipping them in water after each pass. Once you get them to the angle you like, then you will only need to touch them up with a 220 ,or higher sand. have fun , keith

http://www.thebestthings.com/newtools/sorby_proedge.htm

[Mike Peace]

Lots of variables on how frequently to sharpen. Green wood versus dry, poplar vs Cocobo. One noted turner, Stuart Batty, suggests that 10 min may be the extent of using a gouge before sharpening and 30 seconds for a scraper. Sharpen before you feel the need and you will get better results. YMMV.