DW735 Owners: Question for Ya'

[Jason Hanko]

Well I finally made some sawdust with my new DeWalt 735 planer this afternoon (making a stand (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=98610) for it). After running a few boards through, I noticed that the planer is really sniping quite a bit. Now I don’t have the infeed/outfeed tables for it, as Ill be building them into my stand - but still this seems like a lot of snipe, and its even happening on very short boards where extra support shouldn’t be needed.
To be fair I’ve never owned a planer before, so maybe this is just normal.
My main concern is that there seems to be quite a bit of play in the front-right post of the planer carriage. If you apply a bit of upwards leverage to the carriage, the front-right corner (nearest the height-adjustment wheel) will lift up about 1/16''. None of the other 3 corners seem to be this loose, and do not move an iota if you push up on the carriage near them.
In fact, the height adjustment wheel actually moves when you push up on the carriage. This is easy to see on the snazzy new YouTube video I’ve made of the phenomenon here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyN2r5bhFyU

You’ll also notice that it does this while planing – When the board enters the front roller, the carriage lifts up the 1/16’’ (you can see the hand wheel move), and then when the board passes out from underneath the front roller the carriage falls back down. I thought the DW735 didnt NEED a carriage lock...
Again the movement seems to mainly be at the front right post only… if I put the board all the way to the left, it doesn’t move as much and the sniping is reduced.
Someone tell me this isn’t normal....

[Mike Henderson]

I have a 735 and don't get nearly that much snipe. Something must be wrong with your unit.

How much are you taking off in one pass?

Mike

[Jason Hanko]

The pictures above are from a 1/16th pass. But 1/32'' of snipe on a 1/16th pass seems like too much to me...

[Gary Click]

My DW735 sniped until I added the tables but not this bad and it sniped worse on the left side.

I don't recall ever seeing the handwheel turn during operation. Is it possible that the post is loose in the base?

[Shawn Christ]

I recently bought a refurb 735, my first planer. Didn't notice the wheel lifting/carriage lifting problem you are experiencing. I too wonder about a loose connection to the base. If not, I'd send it back to DeWalt for repair.

I've had snipe (no extensions yet), but it lessened as my technique improved. I'll build extensions later to hopefully eliminate it.

[Tom Esh]

I've seen other reports of this leading and trailing snipe characteristic and mine does it too, but without the handwheel phenomena. I've not torn it down to see if it's possible to fix or adjust out, but it's seems clear the auto-lock is not 100% effective, particularly when only one feed roller is engaged, thus the change in cutting depth.
(For those who haven't experienced it, or who don't own a 735, Jason is not referring to the more common type of planer snipe caused by inadequate workpiece support. This is rather more pronounced change in cutting depth that occurs with or without aux tables or support.)

[Alan DuBoff]

The tables should have been included with the planer, IMO, as should have the "dust option". I use both on mine, and was just using it today. It is sure loud. They should include a set of ear muffs with it also, you actually need them...;)

[Sonny Edmonds]

This isn't normal, whatever normal is....
My DW 735 has never exhibited any signs like that (The apparent looseness)
Snipe is a naturally occurring trait in planers like this.
My summation of lunch box snipe:
As the board begins to enter the planer, the rubber in-feed roller presses down on the wood driving it into the planers maw.
The blades are next to find the wood and begin to plane it away. The force of the in-feed roller is pushing down on a very small footprint of the wood as this is happening it's causing the wood to spring ever so slightly upward.
The knives cut away at the wood until it is caught by the out-feed roller which presses the wood flat down to the table and the knives plane away at the board until the following end is released from the in-feed roller.
Then the tail of the board springs ever so slightly upward and gets sniped off as it clears the knives. Then the out-feed roller feeds the board clear of the machine.
There's your snipe sequence. And here's your face: :mad:

Bigger planers don't do this sniping quite as bad, or not at all, for a few reasons, again, in my opinion and observations.
They have steel rollers usually and they do not spring the wood, but rather compress the wood to a much heavier and stable table. Sometimes they will have an upper and a lower feeding roller that positively grabs the wood being fed.
Longer planing beds are also an advantage our "lunch box" planers don't have.
They offer us instead extensions that leave us to fend for ourselves to fiddle into an acceptable rise that compensates for the inadequacies of the smaller planer. A straight edge and a nickel on it's side is a good starting point for rise of the add-on tables.
Lifting the board as it is entering the planer can off-set some of the tendencies for snipe, but it doesn't always work that well.

One other method I use is when feeding multiple boards, I will try and get the first one started with the "English" or "Kentucky windage" of the lift, and keep adding boards when the first one is about half way through.
That way the roller is always loaded and can't single out a board to cause the end to snipe.
And do compensate by accepting you will have to waste the sniped ends at times. So if you want a 3' board, start your planing with longer pieces and cut your final thicknessed stock from the meat and potatoes of the board and burn the sniped ends to warm the shop. ;)

Practice makes perfect. :o
Cut what you want from the middle, perfect is unattainable. :)

[Andy Casiello]

I have a 735. I don't have the tables for it. I usually either hand-feed the boards in and catch them coming out, or use some roller stands to assist. I get very modest snipe, if any at all. What you are experiencing is not normal. HTH.

[Jason Hanko]

Sigh...looks like Ill be giving DeWalt Customer Service a call tomorrow.
And JUST after I got my Wixey installed too....

[David Christopher]

my 735 works great I very seldom get snipe. if yours is new I would take it back and get another


Dave

[Gary Click]

The tables should have been included with the planer, IMO, as should have the "dust option". I use both on mine, and was just using it today. It is sure loud. They should include a set of ear muffs with it also, you actually need them...;)

The DW735 certainly is loud but after I installed the Byrd Shelix head in my planer the sound was dramatically reduced both running and cutting. I no longer get the siren whine when it is running or the harsh scream when cutting and you can actually hear the fan.

I wouldn't reccomend buying the head for that benefit alone but it is a nice side benefit in addition to the cutter life (not infinite but seems that way compared to the DW Knives) and the quality of cut.

[Jeff Bratt]

Being able to move the carriage up at the right-front corner, and the handwheel turning during planing is definitely not normal for the DeWalt 735. I'm sure this is contributing to the excessive amount of snipe you're seeing. With my in and out-feed tables (http://home.roadrunner.com/%7Ejeffnann/WoodWorking/Shop/Shop.html#Planer_Stand_) installed - and raised up about 1/8" on each end, if I get snipe, it's an amount that can be removed with a couple swipes of a card scraper.

[Sean Kinn]

Just incase you needed to hear it again....not normal at all. I have one, and I don't have any infeed or outfeed tables. I've sent both large and small pieces through it, and if I even get any snipe it is well under 1/32 and probably about a 1/64th. And this is with feeding and guiding out by hand with the dw735 sitting on top of my workmate in the middle of the garage.

[Jason Hanko]

Well I FINALLY found some time to run a few boards through my newly-repaired planer. No Snipe!
Some part on the front right corner locking mechanism was broken. Repair shop took care of that (yay warranty) and we're back in business. The carriage doesn't move at all anymore at that corner or any other, and the wheel stays put now.
And whats most importantly', I ain't gotta deal with snipin' no more. :D

[Steve H Graham]

I just started using my DW735, and I got the same kind of results you did. But it was clearly due to bad outfeed support.

I just posted about something I made to support my outfeed; you may want to look and give it a try. Cost me about thirty bucks in casters and screws. I haven't tried it yet, but it should work.

http://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=104551

[Jon Grider]

As Sonny said, slightly raising the board while feeding can minimize the snipe on the leading end. I also slightly raise the board while the board is exiting the planer to minimize snipe on the trailing end.

[Mark Bolton]

This isn't normal, whatever normal is....
My DW 735 has never exhibited any signs like that (The apparent looseness)
Snipe is a naturally occurring trait in planers like this.
My summation of lunch box snipe:
As the board begins to enter the planer, the rubber in-feed roller presses down on the wood driving it into the planers maw.
The blades are next to find the wood and begin to plane it away. The force of the in-feed roller is pushing down on a very small footprint of the wood as this is happening it's causing the wood to spring ever so slightly upward.
The knives cut away at the wood until it is caught by the out-feed roller which presses the wood flat down to the table and the knives plane away at the board until the following end is released from the in-feed roller.
Then the tail of the board springs ever so slightly upward and gets sniped off as it clears the knives. Then the out-feed roller feeds the board clear of the machine.

This doesnt make any sense. If this were the case there would be a stepped snipe on the infeed and the oufeed. The board would be sniped at the infeed/cutter instance, then at infeed/cutter/outfeed instance, at which point planing would then be even, then there would be snipe at infeed disengage which may or may not be further compounded by a lack of support.

The snipe that we have seen on many planers, lunchbox and heavy, is due to the head assembly lifting/flexing as the board enters and exits. That is the true definition of snipe. The head basically "walks" over the board, it racks and raises at the infeed instance, then levels out when infeed and outfeed are engaged, and then racks again as the infeed disengages and only the outfeed draws the last of the board across the head. At least for us, all to often poor support is blamed as snipe however even when the board is completely supported there is still most always some snipe.

As an example, I have planed a board with the planer mentioned in this thread and upon approach of the infeed (board coming out of the planer) I have lifted the board high enough to raise the outfeed side of the planer off the table. This means there is "negative" pressure on the tip of the board. Support is removed from the equation at this point. Yet when the board leaves the planer there is still snipe. This is due to flex in the head assembly. This is true for most all planers, luchbox, heavy 4 posts, etc..



Bigger planers don't do this sniping quite as bad, or not at all, for a few reasons, again, in my opinion and observations.
They have steel rollers usually and they do not spring the wood, but rather compress the wood to a much heavier and stable table. Sometimes they will have an upper and a lower feeding roller that positively grabs the wood being fed.
Longer planing beds are also an advantage our "lunch box" planers don't have.
They offer us instead extensions that leave us to fend for ourselves to fiddle into an acceptable rise that compensates for the inadequacies of the smaller planer. A straight edge and a nickel on it's side is a good starting point for rise of the add-on tables.

I think bigger planers dont snipe as bad because they are bigger, posts are bigger, bearing surfaces are bigger and separated by longer distances hence more support, but they still snipe. It just may be within acceptable tolerance. The way the board is fed (rollers) has little to do with it. The cutting head assembly must simply be massive enough and machined to a tight enough tolerance to simply overcome the compressive strength of the infeed roller compression.



Lifting the board as it is entering the planer can off-set some of the tendencies for snipe, but it doesn't always work that well.

If lifting the board helps, its support, if it doesnt eliminate the problem its flexure in the head/post assembly (snipe).



One other method I use is when feeding multiple boards, I will try and get the first one started with the "English" or "Kentucky windage" of the lift, and keep adding boards when the first one is about half way through.
That way the roller is always loaded and can't single out a board to cause the end to snipe.

This is the technique that works best for us with a planer that snipes. It however doesnt negate the fact that the planer is still sniping. And honestly, at some level, the head is still racking as each board is fed in a multi board pass. The planer head will be shifting left/right, front/back, just as it would be if a single board was being fed. It is of course minimized by the support of the board and the shared load bearing of multiple boards but it is happening none the less.

I would wager that if you were to mark the point at which you fed the second board there would be a measurable increase in the thickenss of the first board (at some level) as the head will raise slightly under the pressure of two boards being fed rather than one. The amount of the raise again goes back to acceptable levels. None the less, it shows that the head is moving/flexing.

For us, we just allow for snipe when planing all material. Even with big planers the snipe is there and will bite you in the a**. Its better to just cut 5" off each end and take it out of the equation all together.

Mark

[Dan Hahr]

Huh? I'm not a planer engineer, but if I had a planer head that "walked all over the board" I'd sell it. I have a Dewalt 735 and a Delta 15" and have used a Grizzly 24" plenty. I've known snipe to be caused by the lack of support (hold down pressure on the board) untill the outfeed rollers engage. The angle of attack of the blades pulls the wood up towards the cutterhead without any pressure on the leading edge.

The snipe effect is exaggerated with thin stock. That is why thin boards sometimes disintegrate as they enter the knives. That is also why very thick short boards hardly ever snipe.

To combat snipe, you must do one or more of the following to keep the ends of the boards that are meeting or leaving the knives from raising:

Lift the back or front of the board slightly as the board enters or exits the planer.
Add extra support to the top of the board as it enters/exits.
Butt consecutive boards end to end tightly. This done correctly completely eliminates snipe for me ( all except for the first and last board).
This is assuming that your cutterhead carriage is not moving up and down on the support posts. It should not be. The DW 735 excells in this area.

Dan

[Larry Frank]

I have had my DW735 for a couple of weeks and have the infeed and outfeed tables. I have been working with adjusting them to minimize the snipe. My intial setting has been to use a long straight edge and make them level with the planer.

[Mark Bolton]

Huh? I'm not a planer engineer, but if I had a planer head that "walked all over the board" I'd sell it.
Dan

If its unreasonable, of course, its time for the scrap heap. I think the issue is what actually is snipe? From my conversations with tool manufacturers and everything Ive ever read on the subject the true definition of snipe is movement in the planer head in reaction to the compressive strength of the board being fed and the pressure of the feed rolls. This is the very reason small planers have some sort of carriage locking. Its why the 735 has a auto locking mechanism, why other planers are equipped with a manual lock/snipe lock, and so on. If actual "snipe" had anything to do with supporting the workpiece the manufacturers would not be trying to lock the head in the first place. The lock is in attempts to minimize or eliminate movement in the head due to flexure or slop in system. This "slop" is of course likely immeasurable in a massive industrial planer and progressively more the smaller, and cheaper, you get. Lower tolerances and the shear need to reduce weight to keep these small planers portable makes them more prone to flexure and slop.

Its no news that any problems at the end of the board is, right or wrong, labeled snipe. But from what I have read, and been told, it is actually inaccurate to call a support problem snipe when its actually a support problem. This would absolve the manufacturer of any issues of snipe because it would all be support related, its not. Support being equal some planers snipe more than others.

I have measured the head movement on several planers we have owned using a mag. dial indicator attached to each post (measure one at a time) reading on the head. All that I have measured have at least some movement. This is why 1/64" or under is deemed acceptable snipe. While I have never been around a big industrial machines, on machines from a JWP-15CS all the way down to the first Delta lunchbox we owned it is measurable. All of these machines had snipe that would be considered acceptable (under 1/64") when planing supported.

Mark

[Dan Hahr]

Here's a pretty good article on the subject. GOOGLE "planer snipe" and you will get several articles speaking to the same point. I would agree that if you had a very large amount of slop in the vertical travel and very weak pressure rollers, it could cause a slightly different type of snipe. However, I believe that the common problem with most planers is related to problem expertly stated in the following link.

http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/index.asp?PageAction=Custom&ID=67

Dan

[Jeff Bratt]

I have had my DW735 for a couple of weeks and have the infeed and outfeed tables. I have been working with adjusting them to minimize the snipe. My intial setting has been to use a long straight edge and make them level with the planer.

After you get the in/out-feed tables level with the planer bed, then the ends (away from the planer bed) should be raised up a little, maybe 1/8".

[Alan DuBoff]

Curious,

How do you adjust the tables on the 735?

I have the tables and it seems they just clip on, wasn't aware that there was a way to adjust them. I don't seem to have the severe problem that is displayed in this thread though, mine works fine just that it is so noisy that the worms leave my front lawn and go to the neighbors when I turn it on...:rolleyes: For that matter, my neighbors leave and get out of the neighborhood when I turn it on...;)

[Jeff Bratt]

Curious,

How do you adjust the tables on the 735?

I have the tables and it seems they just clip on, wasn't aware that there was a way to adjust them. I don't seem to have the severe problem that is displayed in this thread though, mine works fine just that it is so noisy that the worms leave my front lawn and go to the neighbors when I turn it on...:rolleyes: For that matter, my neighbors leave and get out of the neighborhood when I turn it on...;)

I don't know if the factory supplied accessory tables are adjustable or not. I built mine (http://home.roadrunner.com/%7Ejeffnann/WoodWorking/Shop/Shop.html#Planer_Stand_) so they could be tilted as described. If you're not having problems - then don't worry. Otherwise you can lift up (just a little) on the far end of a long board by hand when it's entering or exiting the planer to keep from having the other end tilt into the cutter during the interval of time when it's only held down by one feed roller.

Remember to wear good earmuffs!

[JohnT Fitzgerald]

Curious,

How do you adjust the tables on the 735?

The bed of the tables attach to the side brackets; loosen the bolts with the 'T' handled wrench supplied with the planer, and then you can adjust the height of the table. 2 bolts per side of each table.

[Mark Bolton]

Here's a pretty good article on the subject. GOOGLE "planer snipe" and you will get several articles speaking to the same point. I would agree that if you had a very large amount of slop in the vertical travel and very weak pressure rollers, it could cause a slightly different type of snipe. However, I believe that the common problem with most planers is related to problem expertly stated in the following link.

http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/index.asp?PageAction=Custom&ID=67

Dan

Most every article you will find on the net will be identical to this. This is why I said "right or wrong, any problem at the end of the board will be labeled snipe".

Again, and I dont mean do drag this out, but a carriage or cutter head locking mechanism does NOTHING to eliminate the problems described in this article. Nothing. While this is redundant, a carriage or cutter head lock is there to "lock the cutter head". It is self explanatory as to why manufacturers (including the DW735) implement these features. Its not to aid you in support related snipe.

Mark

[Alan DuBoff]

The bed of the tables attach to the side brackets; loosen the bolts with the 'T' handled wrench supplied with the planer, and then you can adjust the height of the table. 2 bolts per side of each table.
John,

Thanks, I'll look at that when I have the planer out, possibly this weekend.