Best way to construct large bed posts

[Dewayne Reding]

Buying stock to build a panel bed tomorrow. I've never built a leg or post so large. I am guessing 16/4 or larger walnut is not likely to be easy to find. Would the best method be a glue up of two 8/4 pieces, wrap a core of MDF with 4/4, or some other method?

[Joe Scharle]

4 pieces lapped with rabbets was shown in a recent mag. Shopnotes, I think.

[Jamie Buxton]

Are the posts simple square cross-section? If so, my favorite is to make them from four 4/4 boards. They have miter joints at the vertical edges. Your eye expects the grain pattern to change at the corner, and you never see the seam, which is right at the corner. The Arts&Crafts makers like the Stickleys used this approach. If you have nice straight boards and clean bevels, you can glue the boards together with the blue-tape scheme. Or if you have a shaper, you can use a lock-miter. It dosn't make the post any stronger, but it does make the glue-up easier.

[Peter Gregory]

A few years ago, I was making a bed frame for one of my kids and started pricing 16/4 cherry posts and realized it was "real" money. The price took my breath away, so I made one out of 8/4 glue ups. I didn't like it. Really different result with a glue up vs. a solid board (at least to my eye). The historical bed with a glue up, just didn't work for me.

I ended up buying a set from this webpage (http://www.tablelegs.com/BedpostAndFinials/Bedposts/PencilBedpost.aspx). It is cheating, but it was cheaper than I could buy the wood for them. They came in good shape, no sapwood, no problem. A little different than I was intending, but what the heck. The finish product looks great.

Not suggesting you go this way, but I buy wood already, that I don't mill, I use a table saw and a J/P instead of hand tools. I can sleep at night, but some people wouldn't go for it. :)

Good luck, I have been there.

[Randy Klein]

4 pieces lapped with rabbets was shown in a recent mag. Shopnotes, I think.

I think you are referring to my design :D. I documented it here (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=68898&highlight=project). Woodsmith published it as a tip (which was exciting).

Of course, you would have to do something about the hole if it bothers you. For me it was beneficial as a bunk bed connector hole. But you could make a finial or something to hide it.

Another way of making the leg and having a nice grain continuity is to do this:


Use lumber that is slightly thicker than 1/2 desired thickness of the post. For a 3" post, you'll probably want 8/4.
Rip it slightly more than twice the desired width of the post.
Then rip it down the middle and laminate it to itself.

Here's a diagram.
105216

[Joe Chritz]

The method Randy shows works very well and I just used it for gluing up some Red Oak to make fat stiles for a pair of desk projects.

I would add that if you start with very straight grain wood or quarter sawn the seam will nearly be invisible. In fact my bed has posts made this way and you would have to look very carefully to see they are laminated.

Joe

[Dewayne Reding]

I would think that Randy's second method provides a stronger mortice for the headboard tenon. I guess I will see what kind of lumber is available tomorrow.

[Larry Edgerton]

Are the posts simple square cross-section? If so, my favorite is to make them from four 4/4 boards. They have miter joints at the vertical edges. Your eye expects the grain pattern to change at the corner, and you never see the seam, which is right at the corner. The Arts&Crafts makers like the Stickleys used this approach. If you have nice straight boards and clean bevels, you can glue the boards together with the blue-tape scheme. Or if you have a shaper, you can use a lock-miter. It dosn't make the post any stronger, but it does make the glue-up easier.

I agree with you Jamie, except for the Lock Miter not being stronger. I use this quite often as I use fake posts on many of my end cabinets. I usually miter fold a board so it looks like one and lock miter it. I always make them long and cut the ends because it seems the last 3" wants to open up on me a hair. So i get to take a hammer to the ends.:) A lock miter never breaks on the glue joint. Add to that the ease with which they clamp up, and its a no brainer if you have the cutter.

[Randy Klein]

It would think that Randy's second method provides a stronger mortice for the headboard tenon. I guess I will see what kind of lumber is available tomorrow.

If you're really careful with your layout and glue-up, you can do 1/2 mortises before the lamination and they'll become your completed mortises when you join the two.

Also, for most bed designs, the head/foot board connection to post does not need be exceptionally strong since they only carry the weight of themselves. The weight of the mattress and person is carried by the bed slats to side rails to post to ground.

[Joe Scharle]

Congratulations on the tip and the bed project, Randy.
What caught my eye in the mag was your elegant work-around for glued edges on post. Walnut really likes to show glued edges and miters can pull open over time. In fact, I'm looking at 25-30 year old splined miter post that has opened a little at the bottom. Anyway, I'm going to make some bedpost like yours with a poplar plug in the center so the headboard has a little more glue surface.
Your beds look great BTW,
Joe

[Thomas Pender]

Dewayne,

I noticed you are out in the midwest and I do not know what wood places you have out there, but I have seen plenty of 16/4 walnut at Northland Forest Products (here in Va, NC, Pa, etc.) and I have to believe it can be had an shipped from other places as well, like from the advertisers in Fine Woodworking.

I have recently built two beds with 3" White Oak (with large headboard panels) for the posts and while you can glue and laminate 8/4, 5/4, etc., it looks awesome when the post is one piece. I have also had no problem in jointing it or sawing 16/4 (using a bandsaw with help from teenagers or my wife, plus a roller). In addition, it removes a step and while most woodworkers usually have more time than money, I do not find any benefit from gluing more wood - been there, done that, etc.

A few points (1) be real careful chopping your mortises, etc., 16/4 is too expensive to mess up and once you have laminated it, you have lots of effort involved so be careful there too. (2) Watch the end grains on 12/4. 16/4 etc. You need to buy it long enough to be able to sacrifice a few inches because hard wood of this size is hard not to find with some fine cracks near the end. I will negotiate a price break with the manager (a really good guy), but it is still a pain to even transport lumber that big, so cut yourself some slack. (3) Lay the posts in parallel to one another and make sure all the measurements match perfectly with a square and then marke up the mortise dimensions (also make sure they orient to one another correctly). (4) If you are using bedrails, I have had real good luck with the bed rail connectors sold by Rocker and squaredrive screws sold by McFeelys (#10 by 1 1/2 to 2"). So far, no snap offs, even in the end grains of the rails. (5) You can build a jig so your router can mortise end grain on the rails (and the front of the post) - requires a 1/4" by 5/8" dado style bit with a bearing - send me an e-mail and I will send you the plan I followed if you need that, plus a source for the bit. (6) I know this should be obvious, but orient your posts, pretty side on view and make sure you have perfect :o 90 degree from the front to the inside where the panels tie in.

All this being said, I have laminated 8/4 to make 3" posts and matched the lines. I noticed no difference in its machineability and it looks - OK. Best of luck!

Tom

[Gary Herrmann]

Dewayne, do you know of any urban loggers in your area? I bought 16/4 cherry posts for my bed project from Tom Sontag here in town and got a very good price. I think I cleaned him out tho...

[Jim Kountz]

I always make them long and cut the ends because it seems the last 3" wants to open up on me a hair. So i get to take a hammer to the ends.:) .

What is this phenomenon Larry? I know exactly what you're talking about. You glue up the four pieces and the seams look nice until you get to the end and they always seem to open there for some reason. I ran into this making some "wraps" for posts in some of our log homes, bad part is for one of them I didnt notice it until it was too late and ended up (gulp) using some filler on it!!:eek::eek:

[Dewayne Reding]

....Also, for most bed designs, the head/foot board connection to post does not need be exceptionally strong since they only carry the weight of themselves. The weight of the mattress and person is carried by the bed slats to side rails to post to ground.

Thanks Randy, that applies to the bed I am building. I will definitely be seeking some more guidance here. My intent is to modify the basic construction guidance found in The Jeff Miller book "Beds".

I found a bed at the Amish furniture store here in Iowa. It's not a complicated design, but all I have are CELL pictures right now. Bed is way over $4000 by the time you throw on a modest mattress. I can afford to make a couple mistakes.

[Dewayne Reding]

As far as lumber availability, my local hardwood yard burned last week. I am getting ready to make a 50 mile trek to check out a new place n a moment. Don't get me wronmg, I live in Iowa and there are many sources around, but I just can't afford their prices. They are expensive, or they are selling over graded product. Or both. And then there are the small sawyers that don't like to answer their phones or email. It's getting frustrating, but I'm persistent and I wil have multiple sources located soon.

[Lee Koepke]

http://www.instructables.com/files/deriv/FRW/I5MB/FNNKCT2N/FRWI5MBFNNKCT2N.MEDIUM.jpg



You can cut AND turn ... at the same time !!!1

:D

[Dan Gill]

For a Morris Chair, I laminated three 4/4 boards together, then glued on a 1/8" thick piece on the sides that showed the laminations. After routing a small bevel on each edge, it looks great. This is also a way to get quarter-sawn grain on all sides.

For a headboard, I mitered four 4/4 boards around a core.

Both methods worked well for me.

[Dewayne Reding]

For a Morris Chair, I laminated three 4/4 boards together, then glued on a 1/8" thick piece on the sides that showed the laminations. After routing a small bevel on each edge, it looks great. This is also a way to get quarter-sawn grain on all sides.

For a headboard, I mitered four 4/4 boards around a core.

Both methods worked well for me.

Dan

What did you use for a core? I now have a lot of 4/4 walnut. That is what I will be using for posts.

[Larry Edgerton]

What is this phenomenon Larry? I know exactly what you're talking about. You glue up the four pieces and the seams look nice until you get to the end and they always seem to open there for some reason. I ran into this making some "wraps" for posts in some of our log homes, bad part is for one of them I didnt notice it until it was too late and ended up (gulp) using some filler on it!!:eek::eek:

I don't know Jim, but I finally figured out that throwing away 6" of wood was cheaper than messing with it for ever. I think it is because the one side that you take to a point gets pushed in a little by the powerfeed as it comes off the infeed fence, but still, 6" of wood is cheaper and less frustrating. I have yet to make them work all the way to the end.