Shaper Safety

[Martin Titmus]

Hi All - have a question about safely making rails and stiles using a profile and contra profile on a shaper. Have never read an instruction manual (tried for an xmas present but books out of stock) so have developed my own procedure which I hope is reasonably safe. However it is very slow and timeconsuming and has some difficulties which someone may be able to help me with. For what it is worth here is what i do:
Firstly I am using a shaper as part of a robland combi m/c so can use the crosscut carriage with a tenoning plate for the stiles
1. Cut the rails oversize (length)as the ends always seem to go through the shaper fractionally deep - set up the shaper fence for 1st pass to cut the profile- then set the fence for 2nd cut by placing a straight edge across the fence and the deepest part of the profile bit (best way to set depth of cut?)
2. Same procedure for the stiles to cut the inner profile for the panel.
3. Set up tenoning plate and change bit height for contra profile to cut stile ends.
4. Cut stiles to length
5. Install sacrificial piece (clamping separately as the clamp to hold stile doesn't hold sacrificial piece and it can get drawn into shaper)
6. Set fence to control depth of cut for contraprofile (using straight edge again) making sure it is parallel to cross cut carriage
7. Cut test piece to check for fit with rail
8.Adjust height and depth of cut if necessary and then cut stiles properly using fence to control depth of 2nd pass.
9 Check for fit with rails and then cut rails to length

The bit i'm not happy with is setting the fence for the final stile cut - to get it parallel to the crosscut carriage and make fine adjustments by hand for the depth is really fiddly and I make lots of mistakes before getting it right - am i missing a trick here? Thanks for your views
Martin Titmus

[David DeCristoforo]

Using the fence with the crosscut carriage (slider) is always fussy. What you really need is a feeder. Then you can set up a fence so that the stock goes between the cutter and the fence for your profile cuts (NEVER TRY THIS WITHOUT A FEEDER!!!!!). In most cases, your fence does not have to align with anything because the cutter is round and therefore the fence always creates a "tangent". When tennoning (or coping) the fence only needs to serve as a stop. And in fact, you don't really need the fence at all. If you use a sacrificial fence on your slider, extend it far enough into the cutter so as to get a full profile cut on your first pass. Then just align your stock pieces with the end of the sacrificial fence.

[Jeff Duncan]

Yup, what David said.
That technique will yield the fastest setup, and the cleanest and most accurate parts with no snipe. But you will need the investment of a feeder. Although not cheap they're well worth every penny, and once you've used it you'll wonder how you've lived without it.
good luck,
JeffD

[Steve Jenkins]

not sure of the terminology you used. stile go up and down and rails go side to side just like fence rails.
I leave the stiles long then trim the top and bottom of the door after it is glued up. I cut the panel length so I can clamp the rails lightly to the panel then glue and clamp the stiles. this insures that the rails are parallel to each other since you are using the panel itself as a spacer. the panel won't expand and contract in length only width so it's not a problem to have the rails in contact with then ends of the panel.

[Peter Quinn]

So you mill the sticking profile first and cope second? I usually cope (contra profile) first, setting a straight fence square to the sliding carriage (or coping sled, or miter gauge, same idea). I use the fence as a depth stop and set it flush to the spacer or bearing that forms the stub tenon on the rail ends. I use a backer secured to the fence of said sliding carriage in whatever means is most appropriate (screws, double stick tape, clamps, t bolts in a slot) to eliminate chip out.

I mill the profile (called sticking in the local parlance) second using either a back fence or a split fence set up to remove 1/16" of material which necessitates milling the material 1/16" over sized on width per pass. Remember to double it for mid rails or mid styles if those are involved. All profiles are cut with a POWER FEEDER. While it is sold as an accessory, it really is a necessity for many shaper operations, as evidenced by the fact that many shaper manufactures have started to drill holes in the tables to hold a feeder at the factory or include some other mechanism for attachment that does not require the user to act as a machinist! If you have a shaper, you need a feeder.

If I understand that you are using the sliding carriage to move the wood past the cutter to mill the sticking profile, well, that just sounds crazy to me. I could see how it could work with the right toggle or eccentric clamp strategy and a back fence held in the sliders accessory slot, but I don't like the idea as you still must control the feed rate manually which may compromise cut quality.

[Brian Peters]

Stile and rail doors as follows:

stick all stock long lengths, usually 8-10' on a shaper with a power feeder

cut down s&r to length based on cutlist, for the rails I add the depth of profile + 1/16 (when I cope the rails I skim a 1/32 off each end to produce a clean end and ensure it is a perfect depth profile

cope rails with neumatic hold down sled. If it's a profile I make a backup piece by running a backer through the cope profile, leaves a flawless no chipout cope every time

Assemble either with a door clamp press or on the bench, larger doors with framing square smaller doors/drawer fronts with a L shaped fence jig to ensure they are all perfectly square

Few things to comment on: I don't know why people leave the stiles long and trim them later; its a waste of time. I don't see any advantages to doing that. Also I don't like the idea of coping them sticking; running all stock in long lengths with a feeder is so much faster. Even without a feeder it is and then you never have to worry about getting snipe.

[J.R. Rutter]

If the slider is long enough, then using it for sticking cuts is fine as long as it is clamped firmly. That is how the door machines like Unique's 250 work. But I think a feeder would be faster and you wouldn't have to worry about squaring up a fence to register the outside of the part.

I cope the rail ends first to avoid dealing with a profiled backer board. Rough crosscutting also lets me get flatter parts in my S4S process. I replaced the wheels on my feeder with belts (Western Roller sells conversion kits) to better handle short parts. Absolutely use an auxilliary fence and power feed the parts between the fence and the cutter, as others have suggested. This way you dimension and profile in one pass.

For rail cuts, I would just use the infeed fence as a stop. If your cutters trim the end of the stub tenon, then trimming 1/32" off each end (add 1/16" to the x-cut length) ensures a nice square end and a tenon that doesn't leave a gap at the bottom of the groove. A backer board run with the cope cutter works fine if you don't want to feed short rails after coping. With a creative clamp, you can run a pair of rails at a time with flat outside edges together in the middle.

[Neal Clayton]

fwiw, woodcraft has a pretty cheap miter guage with a hand clamp on it that works well for this purpose.

[Chip Lindley]

Never say NEVER! Pleeze! This is *woodworking* afterall. I have used parts of the Weaver Door System for many years before I was able to afford a stock feeder.

Check out Weaver's FE360H Sticker Setup Plate. An outboard fence is used with a spring-loaded pressure bar, to consistently size stiles (or straight rail stock) as it is pushed through the shaper. Although this system CAN be used with a feeder, it can likewise be used manually with a pusher stick to finish passing stock past the cutters.

Weaver, also has a very usable Coping Hold Down, HD225W, used in a shapers miter slot. There are more expensive air-jigs and stock feeders available for the system, but it can be used very well in the manual mode too!

Check out the weaver website and you go away more privy to shaping doors than you were when you came in! If you are *handy* you can certainly turn out similar jigs for your shop to increase your accuracy! Happy New Year!

[Chip Lindley]

Brian, one of my main concerns is door flatness. Not sure how you achieve this over 8-10' lengths of stock for door stiles. I never could achieve *perfectly straight/flat* over that length. I can joint a flat surface over 36-48" but not over 8-10'. It is extra work but worth it to me in the finished product.

[Brian Peters]

Brian, one of my main concerns is door flatness. Not sure how you achieve this over 8-10' lengths of stock for door stiles. I never could achieve *perfectly straight/flat* over that length. I can joint a flat surface over 36-48" but not over 8-10'. It is extra work but worth it to me in the finished product.

Sorry when I was writing that I meant paneling, usually paneling I try to get the stock as good as I can but not too too concerned, for door stock I add about 10 inches to the longest stile length. I too am concerned for flatness, and I add a percentage of material on (usually 30% for stain grade) to ensure I won't have to use anything questionable and joint all the door stock dead flat.