Pondering life's choices/looking for direction....

[Brian Matthews]

Hi all,

I have been cruising the 'Creek for over a year, and have posted a few times. The generousity of the membership's input and experience has led me post this...

At age 32, I am already at something of a crossroad in my "working" career. I have worked in a family business - a sign shop - for about 4 years now. Prior to that, I was a ski bum out in the mountains for 5 years after university (misguided Bachelor in Architecture). When I joined my aunt & uncle, it was with the intent that I ultimately buy the business from them as they approach retirement. I truly enjoy designing and fabricating signs, but fear I am burning out.

In the last year or so, our shop has been hit with much adversity with respect to staffing and work loads. We only had 2 other staff in the shop, but have had much turnover the last year, and are presently only the 3 of us. The business is unable to grow as we are all running flat out just trying to keep the doors open. My uncle has not taken a day off since Easter, I have worked most weekends since then as well. Anyhow, long story slightly shorter, a heated discussion today has me thinking about options...

I have been wondering about making my interest in woodworking into a career. I would not be so bold to suggest starting my own business as I am a novice woodworker.

I am thinking more in terms what to pursue for an education in woodworking/carpentry. I know there are many pros swimming in the Creek - did any of you go to school to learn the trade? Where? What was the focus - cabinetry or carpentry, or can they separated? There seem to be several multi-year furniture-making programs offered around the U.S. and Canada, have any of you taken these programs? Looking at the community colleges here most programs seem to focus on framing structures etc. more than furniture making. An obvious thought would be to talk to a few a furniture making shops here in Calgary and see what sort of experience/education they look for, but I thought I would ask for thoughts here first....

Those of you who have turned a hobby into a carrer - are you sorry you did it because woodworking is no "work", or was it the answer to finding happiness in your life?

Any thoughts are muchly appreciated.

Needing a vacation,
Brian

[Brian Matthews]

My apologies, the last line should read:

Those of you who have turned a hobby into a carrer - are you sorry you did it because woodworking is NOW "work", or was it the answer to finding happiness in your life?


Thanks,
Brian

[Donnie Raines]

I cant help you..for I am just a weekend warrior. But, i do wish you the est of luck no matter what you do in the end. My dream was to become a golf pro...and I did that for 4-5 years after college. I got burned out and joined the family buisness and love it! Things happen in weird ways..soemtimes not always easy to understand why they are the way they are....go with your gut.

[Tyler Howell]

Hey Brian!
Just a heads up you can edit your post with the little button in the lower right.
As I have been signing off here and everywhere else, "knowledge is power" No education is wasted. I'm moving toward that ski bum thing now as the knees are shot and the back is gone. You learned something there.
I've been actively persueing WW classes, starting out with Rockler and Woodcraft and moving up to the local votec and high school extension courses. Cabinet making has been the most rewarding, with lay out and design classes. Nail shooters though an honored and highly skilled profession are a dime a dozen. Often in the projects I R.E. for my business, the contractors have only one person that knows what's going on. That's the guy to be. Or in a nice warm dry cabinet shop that isn't delayed by rain of rushed by cold.
To start is the key. My oldest said she will be 33, eight years from now when she finishes med school. I asked her how oid she would be 8 years from now if she didn't go. She left for the summer program at Temple last Sunday;)

[Todd Burch]

Hi Brian. I was laid off Nov. 2002 (tech sector). In April 2003, I decided to become a full-time woodworker. I had been doing it as an aggressive hobby since '92.

I have not taken any classes. All knowledge is self taught by books, videos, watching PBS, HGTV and DIY, internet forums, local woodworking club and doing it.

I would like to take some classes though - decorative finishing would be a good one. A class on classical architecture/design would be good too. A few years ago, while working in I.T., I started a home correspondence course on carpentry, but didn't finish it. I grew up around carpenters though.

You HAVE to be motivated to get out of bed EVERY DAY. EVERY DAY. You are your own boss. Have a business plan. The most frustrating piece of the business for me, (other than not having all the resources I would like to have to be faster), is the business side of the business.

Todd (Still having FUN!)

[Greg Heppeard]

Brian,

I learned the love of woodworking from my grandfather. I retired from the Air Force in 1993 as a computer tech. I then turned my beloved hobby into a vocation and started working in cabinet shops and doing some work on the side for extra cash. I started hating my job, because it was all consuming. A couple of years ago, I became a manager at a local woodworking store that was opening in the area. I love my hobby again, but don't have much time to actually do a lot of woodworking. I do have the luxury of having a job that directly relates to my hobby, tho, and the experience I've gained over the years has definately helped in this latest venture; I get to use my mistakes to help novice woodworkers not make the same ones.

[Cecil Arnold]

To add to what Brian said, one reason you are feeling the way you do is that you need to make time to "stop and smell the roses" or put another way, all work and no play. . . Having gone through a couple of periods of burn-out in my life I can assure you that 24/7 dealing with whatever you do will definately be a determent to your creativity, health, and outlook.

[Mark Singer]

Take a bit of time and try to make the right decision here....you will be living with it a long time. What works for one person may not work for another. I have always believed in doing what you really love...that is what you will do well at

[Jack Wood]

:rolleyes: Hi Brian, wow, 32, I kinda remember that age:rolleyes: You have asked a question that really dependes on your skill. You didn't say if you have any formal education IE college, tech school, but if you know your way around a print shop you have to be fairly PC literate these days. I am fortunate in that I have had the same job for almost 25 years so I haven't had to cross this bridge. I have a good freind who in High School was an ace mechanic, built killer engines, did his own transmission work, from front bumper to the rear bumper he could do it all. He loved every minute of it until the day came that he had make a living doing it. He says that it will never be the same again and he never has time to work on his "hobby" anymore. While I am no woodworking industry expert, it seems that the jobs out there are few and far between. Most of the people I know have to work 2 jobs to make it work, woodworking for hire and something else for the lean times. So my advice to is to go back to school and learn a skill as a back up, computer programing, IT tech, AC repair etc. These won't take as long as regular degree and you can work and not put all of your eggs in one basket. You undoubtly know the risk and rewards in owning your own business, but most fail in the first year so you have to have a back up. Good luck to ya and let us know how things work out.

[Dennis Peacock]

Hey Brian,

No...I'm not a professional woodworker in some sense of the title. I am a true hobbiest woodworker and have taken on "commission" work to make a little extra money to reduce the pains of supporting my hobby with just my day job income. At first, I thought it was pretty cool to be making stuff for "money" for once in my own shop. Nowhere to travel for work as the people came to me due to word of mouth about my woodworking abilities. The projects came, the work came, the deadlines came and I was suddenly forced to work in my shop every single day and night I could "make" free to work and try to meet customer deadlines for the various projects. My hobby very quickly became a real "ball and chain" and woodworking quickly became a necessary "have to" in order to keep the customers happy. Once I had completed each of the projects I was hired to make, I quickly decided that I could NOT make a true living at what I called my hobby.

I built a custom CD cabinet with wood inlay for one customer and I figured out that it would take me xx hours to build and finish the cabinet. Little did I realize that it took me xxx hours and I stuck to my original price quote with the customer so show that I could do what I said for the original price quote. Little did I realize that my hourly wage at that time once delivered and paid for the project that I made in total profit was about $1.15 per hour. I had no real overhead to pay out, no utilities to pay out of the profits. It was just money in my pocket. After figuring out what it really cost ME....my profit quickly turned into some serious "negative" numbers.

What you are really asking is am I willing to take up another line of work in hopes of being happy with it. Todd Burch picked it up and loves his work. I have a wife that stays at home and teaches our 4 children. I would have to turn my hobbiest shop into a very serious production shop that would crank out several products each month in honest hopes to clear enough to pay expenses.

I'm not saying it can't be done......you just have to think it over and be very honest with yourself about it. Can you afford to buy the tools and equipment to do what you need to do? Do you have a building in which to produce the products that your prospective customers will want made? How many hours each week are you willing to do just that line of work? How long will you be "willing" to work 6 or 7 days a week to "keep body and soul together"? Consider overhead costs, liability insurance, bonding costs, operating expenses, general insurance, workmans comp costs...and the list goes on from there. What can you do if you do not survive in the first year of business? Another trade?

Think it over very seriously, long and hard. Weigh the risks and benefits. After all.....all it really takes it just time and money. Right? :)

I wish you the best of luck in your decision. I just wanted to pass on my experiences and thoughts on this very thing as I have pondered it several times.

[Jim Becker]

Craftsmanship and knowlege are certainly very important to your decision. But don't forget having a detailed business plan. More businesses fail because of misdirection than they do from poor work. Numbers are so important as are putting in place the procedures and plans necessary to keep your business focused and on track.

This was something very obvious from my visit with Ian Barley earlier in the week while in the UK. He has a complete understanding about how his business is doing in just about every way you can measure it with numbers. He also is continually tweaking processes to make those numbers improve.

While in the begining it may be tempting to "be all things to all people", try to make an effort to find your niché where you have something that folks want to buy/contract for and the ability to produce it effectively and efficiently. As such, keep in mind that it takes time to establish a business and you'll want to have plans/funding in place to carry you over until your revenues exceed your expenses by enough to support you per your business plan. Investing in the right tools is also part of this...consider what efficiency brings when you are working out the return on investment for your equipment needs. It's often true that buying a little more upscale at the beginning will help you get profitable sooner if you work your plan.

Bottom line...it's a numbers game.

[Ian Barley]

Brian

Like a few others here I have fairly recently gone on the kind of journey you are thinking about. At the age of 40 I left a reasonable career in the software industry and set out on my own making outdoor furniture.

Because I live in a completely different economy to yours I probably can't help much in respect of the employment/training question. But I won't let that stop me!

In most cabinet/furniture shops over here experience is worth at least as much as training and two or three years at college will probably carry less weight than the same length of time working in a busy shop. You are right to talk to the owners of furniture/cabinet shops in your area and if you really want them to give you the skinny offer to push a broom for them for an hour or so in exchange.

If you want to build fine furniture expect to be working for yourself and yes, the college education might be useful but Todd builds beautiful stuff and I suspect that the best bit of his education came from "doing it". Ain't no substitute.

You should also examine why you are looking for a change. If it is because you want some time to "smell the roses" do not expect to get that from a woodworking career if you also like to eat everyday. As I write this I have not had a non-working (12 hour) day in the last 9 weeks. When Jim Becker visited with me the other day I took a few hours off and am grateful to Jim both for his time in visiting and giving me the impetus to take a break. I suspect that part of your current problem is that the people you work with are expecting you to act like you owned the business but won't let you own the business. What do you enjoy about woodworking? Would you really be able to get that if you were working in somebody elses cabinet shop?

Todd makes the point that he is frustrated by the business side of the business. As Jim aludes to in his post - I enjoy the business side of the business at least as much as the woodworking side. I get as much satisfaction from a good marketing mailshot as I do from making product and cannot really see the two as divisible. As far as woodwork goes my proudest creations are bits of MDF and ply nailed together to create a jig which saves me 2 minutes on the production time of a chair and pushes up the product quality.

Don't be fooled into imagining that the best woodworker will have the best woodworking business. I chose a product based business rather than custom build because I am acutely aware of my weaknesses. Having a product that I can cost out and sell at at fixed price protects me from myself. There are hobbiest's on this forum that would laugh at the level of my skills but I make a living.

Jim is right - I do see it as a numbers game. Each month I can look at what I have sold in the last period compared to all of my costs and that is what enables me to know how much of the value of a chair that I sell goes on advertising it, power, even snacks for the workshop fridge.

Todd also aludes to resources. For the small guy like me this is always the conflict. In the last month I have spent £14000 upgrading kit (not a very stealthy gloat - pics and reviews will follow shortly). This is because production grade, work every day, stuff is not cheap. The planer which was delivered to me on Thursday (Sorry you missed it Jim - its a beauty - maybe next time you're over) cost just over £4000 (about $7000) but it takes twice the cut at twice the speed - reduces my timber prep time by 75%. That is the scale of investment you have to make if you are looking to make a living woodworking for yourself.

You ask the question "are you sorry you did it because woodworking is now "work", or was it the answer to finding happiness in your life?".

I am not sorry that I did it and don't think that I have been for one day since I made the change. Was it the answer to finding happiness - No. I got that when I was able to secure the love of a good wife who stands beside me and helps me to deal with vagaries of life. I got that because I no longer make a living doing things that didn't matter for people who don't care.

Sorry to ramble a bit but I hope that somwhere in there you find some thoughts that help.

[Dennis Peacock]

Brian,

Just do me one favor.....Please try and persue your "real, true passion" for your personal line of business. Many people that turn a real passion into a business have a better chance of keeping a good attitude while progressing at your business, are willing to work longer hours to see your passion come to pass and it is very gratifying to see your passion and business succeed because it is something you are very passionate about.

My problem is, I have a job that I have no real passion for and it is daily drudgery so to keep family together and bills paid. I'll get to find out about a ww business after I retire. Due to 9-11, my retirement funds have all but disappeared and looks very likely that I will be working after retirement.

I above all, wish you the best, no matter what you choose to do.

May your pathways be straight and your mind clear and ideas sharp.