Photo on Metalgraph+?

[John Noell]

I have a customer who wants a largish Metalgraph plaque with a photo on it. (And of course, the photo is low quality, albeit pretty big.) Any suggestions?

[Frank Corker]

Tell him to give you a better photograph or you won't be able to work with it. Alternatively, post the picture in a zip file so that we can look at it and see if it is possible. Your question is open ended.

[Bill Cunningham]

Earlier in the year, I did about 20 8x10 silver Alumamark plates with 5x5" famous people photos, and a short bio for each.. These were for a large conference room someplace. Virtually every photo was a web clip..grrrrr.. I told them the small ones will not look all that great, did a sample of just the worst photo, and they liked it (???? some peoples standards are just soooo low..) and I got the go-a-head.. I found if I sharpen them up as a grayscale as best I could, then run them through Photograv, Photograv itself seems to get rid of a lot of the fuzzies in a poor picture..If a better photo is not available, tell them you will do the best you can, but it can only be a good as the artwork/photos supplied.. If you using Alumamark, the silver is particularly fussy, but if you back off your focus about 1/8", it makes a world of difference
..

[John Noell]

Tell him to give you a better photograph or you won't be able to work with it. Alternatively, post the picture in a zip file so that we can look at it and see if it is possible. Your question is open ended.
Here it is. :) This is the ONLY photo he has so please work your magic Frank! I was originally interested in whether or not anyone has tried putting a photo on MetalGraph. In my limited experiments with it I have not been able to get decent resolution from a bitmap. The typical settings I use for it in sign making appear off for a photo.

[Frank Corker]

This photo is about 20 times better than the stuff people send me!

[Frank Corker]

John, what size? What colour metalgraph and do you want background in or out?

[Frank Corker]

Oh well you are probably in bed so I'll post these for you to try. One is slightly larger than the other because of the size restrictions of the zip files. For some reason they only allow 1.91 so I had to lose an inch on one to make it fit. Both are 300dpi. Hope they might be of use to you.

[John Noell]

THANK YOU FRANK!!!! I will burn these tomorrow. (Today is not only New Years Day, but also my wedding anniversary. If I went to the shop and burned it today I might not get another anniversary.) :)

This is to go on the brass-like thick Metalgraph (300mmx450mm) with text around it ("Happy 70th Birthday" etc). What do you recommend for burning, make it into bitmap with Photoshop (Gold method?) or burn directly from Epilog driver with Stucki (or Jarvis or...)?

Again, THANK YOU!

[Frank Corker]

Well for certain one thing you have to burn, the other you can't! You need to run them through photograv though these are just adjusted jpg, ready for the experience!

[John Noell]

Hmmm, As I do not have Photograv, just Photoshop, do you think I would get a lot better results from Photograv than the Gold method in Photoshop? (I know that is a bit of loaded question but I'm still pretty new at this.)

[Frank Corker]

John MAN you're killing me! Why didn't you put all that stuff before I processed it. Okay, never tried metalgraph so you will have to do your own settings, both are ready for engraving as is ( NO RESIZING OR ALTERING ) max height of 12". I could have made it 18" but width gets altered and you'd probably end up with a mess. I hope these work.

[Mike DeRegnaucourt]

Hi Frank, great work on the photos. That was very nice of you to help John out. When you processed the photo through Photograv, what material did you select? I tried processing one of those photos through Photograv and I did not get the same results. I've often had hit-and-miss results with Photograv. What dpi do you normally use in Photograv?

Thanks again Frank, as always, you are such a tremendous help on Sawmill.

[Frank Corker]

Mike, always remember, when in doubt use the cherry setting. Gives the overall best result on most things.

[Brian Robison]

Frank,
when your done with that can you come over and cut some acrylic for me?
I have to go to my mother in law's today.:D

Thanks,
Brian

[Tim Bateson]

I agree Mike. Rairly can PhotoGrav produce better results then using the Epilog Driver Dithering. I think Frank proved it's all in the practice.
Frank - That really is good work.

[Martin Boekers]

Frank you are so right on the Cherry setting. I hate to say it but I use that almost exclusively.

Photograv should have a "light" version with just a setting for overall work, they would probably sell quite a few at a lower cost.


Marty

[John Noell]

Frank, sorry! I really didn't mean to make you do all the work. But again, do you think Photograv is worth the money, given what CAN be done with Photoshop? I have not been doing a lot of pictures but I've been relatively happy with the outcomes on acrylic and wood using the Gold method. (I wil admit I have wasted a lot of scraps getting the settings worked out.) For some reason the original Douglas photo gave me fits. I got one decent picture on wood but could not replicate it. (Not a big problem as it is not what the client wants.) The Metalgraph is weird stuff and I have not been able to get a good image - but tomorrow I am back in the shop to try YOUR versions! Again, THANK YOU - but I really didn't mean for top do the WHOLE thing for me.

[Frank Corker]

Frank, sorry! I really didn't mean to make you do all the work. But again, do you think Photograv is worth the money, given what CAN be done with Photoshop? I have not been doing a lot of pictures but I've been relatively happy with the outcomes on acrylic and wood using the Gold method. (I wil admit I have wasted a lot of scraps getting the settings worked out.) For some reason the original Douglas photo gave me fits. I got one decent picture on wood but could not replicate it. (Not a big problem as it is not what the client wants.) The Metalgraph is weird stuff and I have not been able to get a good image - but tomorrow I am back in the shop to try YOUR versions! Again, THANK YOU - but I really didn't mean for top do the WHOLE thing for me.


Photograv is an expensive individual item. For a laser engraver I think it can be classed as 'Tools of the Trade', do I think it is worth it? I prefer having it in my arsenal and it often gets the job done quickly and effectively.

Version 3 of Photograv has a far nicer format and working environment than 2.11, you can go from virtually any image, colour and size and be able to convert it in the program. I don't always hold with the suggested speed and power settings though, I think that they should have tightened that up a little and a lot of the materials that they list also need tidying up and updating. It's a pity none of them haven't joined the forum here where they are able to get the problems with it first hand (the consumer).

The Gold Method most definitely works, thanks to the efforts of Rodney Gold and Doug Griffith, although they are not as refined as Photograv, those methods are 100% cheaper. I think that makes a huge difference. Spot the difference.

"....but I really didn't mean for top do the WHOLE thing for me" I know you didn't, but how will you ever see the difference if you don't have photograv and not have something to compare it with? That was why I did do it for you, but unless the necessary requirements for the image are there, I would be guessing and then post something that will make a pigs ear of the engraving. Besides, if I didn't want to to do it, I could have just left it alone. I just wanted to give you the best leg up I can.

[John Noell]

...I just wanted to give you the best leg up I can.
And it is GREATLY appreciated! This forum is one of the reasons I bought a laser. It made me think I could learn enough, fast enough, to make a successful business out of it. Six months later we are not getting rich but we do have an income that is quite respectable over here (where things tend to be quite cheap - excepting imports).

[John Noell]

On a scrap of plywood the picture shows pretty good detail and contrast range. On Metalgraph it does not work at all. Even when lighter parts are too light, the shadow areas lose all detail. Plus, once it is done, if you rub it at all, the metallic parts that are surrounded by rastered areas do not stay attached; they flake right off. :(

[Frank Corker]

John that gold one, that isn't the image I posted for you, that one appears to be done with a real halftone. If it was then there really are some big issues.

[John Noell]

In my earlier post the one on the left is Metalgraph and the one of the right is plywood. Both are from your file "Douglaswhite_background (ENG).tif" imported to CorelDraw X3 and then set to laser. I may have done something terribly wrong but all I did was import the file, crop for test printing (with no change in size), then "print" to laser. ????? Here it is again but I am realizing that the photo I took of it was REALLY REALLY terrible. (I think that may have misled you.) Here is one that is not so fuzzed. I have added a second attempt using a lighter setting. (The lighter one would look better except for the darker grain in the plywood on the left.)

[Frank Corker]

John the image I posted is done through photograv. Cropping the picture and then saving it changes the pictures structure. Change the structure and the processing is a waste of time. I think I did say don't crop or resize.

[Frank Corker]

... ready for engraving as is ( NO RESIZING OR ALTERING ) max height ....


Yep, this was the bit.

[John Noell]

I read the 'do not resize or alter' but did not realize that cropping would change the structure of the image. I do not understand how that would work as cropping typically just removes portions, but I do not know photograv at all and Corel is not a program I have used a lot before the last six months. (I have quite a bit of computer graphic experience from the 'old days'.) I am amazed (and chagrined) that cropping alone changes where the bits are in the image. Sorry Frank. I will try it full size in the morning.

[Bill Cunningham]

I have cropped out excessive white space from imported photograv binary images (Using the node tool) without harm. I wonder if for some reason the tif got converted to a grayscale from the original binary sometime after the download! For example, if it was cropped with bit image software, the saved cropped portion most likely was converted to a 8 bit grayscale .tif or worse, a 24 bit black and white 'colour' tif

[Frank Corker]

The only problem with it Bill is that Photograv do harp on about the no resize/alter once imported. It might well be that the image I posted might not work anyway, just because John didn't get a good image having altered it (shhhhh he wasn't listening) doesn't necessarily mean this one will. I have to be honest and say I never alter it once it goes into Corel, their image alterations most definitely affect the results and I've learned not to trust it.

The only way around the image thing is to make a mask around it using a rectangle with another piece missing out the middle, no border..... a bit like a picture frame. Provided the piece is white and you print both the picture and the frame together, the laser will ignore the white frame and still engrave the image, minus the frame. That way the picture doesn't get resized or altered.

I'm glad John posted the goldish coloured image. I'm looking more and more at using halftones as a way of getting a decent graphic everytime. So far all I have found is a lot of frustration in getting something consistent. I'm hoping Rodney Gold will chip in on that matter with a method he has had with consistency. After all, an image on a newspaper is generally pretty good, no reason it shouldn't work on any material.

[Steve Clarkson]

Do you believe that PowerClipping an image inside a box is akin to cropping it?

[Scott Shepherd]

John, you are 100% correct, the metalgraph will flake off in the use you have shown.

I had that problem with some fine detail work in metalgraph and I called Rowmark on it. Basically the response was "don't make the detail so small, it'll flake off".

[Anthony Welch]

Do you believe that PowerClipping an image inside a box is akin to cropping it?


I have power clipped in ornaments and such and find it doesn't appear to change it. As I have not done an unclipped comparison. But I think Power Clipping does not change the size of the image anyway.

I also am one of those who only use the "cherry" setting exclusively now on everything.

Anthony