Solid Mahogany Entry Doors

[ernie riley]

I was trying to buy a solid mahogany entry door for my wife and came up with a question.

The guy trying to sell me the door said it was considered solid although it has 3/16 in. mahogany veneers of a solid mahogany core. Is this the industry standard? Should this door be advertised as a solid mahogany door?

Thanks, I just wanted to be sure and get something good before I spent the money.

ernie :)

[Maurice Ungaro]

The guy trying to sell me the door said it was considered solid although it has 3/16 in. mahogany veneers of a solid mahogany core.



Ernie,
Are you trying to say that it has a mahogany veneer over a mahogany core? Or that is has a mahogany veneer of a solid core? The two are different, but both are solid doors. I've installed numerous doors that are solid wood with a finish veneer applied. Your wife is correct in questioning, because the two are vastly different in price.

[Scott Myers]

I have often been curious why someone wants a solid 1 piece type of door? I like the sound of it on some level. I had this come up recently with a friend as a matter of fact. What about expansion? What about cupping/warp over time? Where on earth would one find this wood and how much would it cost? I am not asking to be a pain, but really want to know.

A solid wood door sounds attractive, especially in an old home where one wants to keep everything as original as possible, like in a historical district. I too like the look of a real wood door. They ca nbe gorgeous. However, I would probably want to use some type of manmade core for insulation properties and stability. But that is just the practical side of me talking and a little off thread. The traditionalist within me would say something else.

[David DeCristoforo]

The definition of the word "solid" is in question here. Like everything else, industries that use wood have lobbied to have these terms re-defined in their favor. An object can be made of MDF with a thin veneer of wood and be advertised as being made of "wood solids". If a product is made of mahogany, it can be called "solid mahogany" even though it is not made of "actual solid boards". This is a case where reading the fine print might not give you all the information you need. You have to know the rules. It's all very fuzzy.

[Chip Lindley]

Original *solid* entry doors were made the way they were years ago for only one reason. There was no better way to make them with the technology of the day! Thick, wide, *perfect* timber was available in abundance then. Premium 8/4 or 12/4 lumber is very hard to come by nowdays, and has a *premium* price tag to match!

Today, concerns with overall stability, insulation properties, warpage, and conservation of premium lumber (not to mention competitive pricing in a given market) overshadow the use of doors made from solid planks. You could get many 3/16 face veneers from one premium, blemish-free 2" thick plank! Think of the beauty hidden through that slab of wood, which could be spread over many doors for a home!

If you demand a solid 1-3/4" to 2-1/4" thick solid door of mahogany, go price them at local cabinet shops. Be prepared for sticker shock of the *final magnitude*!

Just food for thought....HappyNewYears!!

[Maurice Ungaro]

NOTE:
A solid door usually is a rail & stile/panel construction number. There are doors out there that are constructed differently. In the southwest and west coast, there are plenty of board on board style doors.

All of that not withstanding, when you order a door with out the jamb, you order a "slab". This does not mean that you get one whole slab-o-wood. It's just the industry term. Likewise for "solid".

[Larry Edgerton]

I don't make any solid doors exterior any more. Thats not to say that you could tell one of my doors from a solid, but I have found it best to use a core, either honeycomb board or plywood and West System just to avoid callbacks. I don't even tell customers that it has a core in the middle as they can't tell anyway, except that it never warps and doesn't shrink and expand with the seasons. So I can fit it tighter, it has better insulation propertys, and I never have to make another one because it warped.

I started this after I had to replace a roundtop that warped after they painted one side. It was a mainstreet shop on Mackinaw Island and word spreads like wildfire there. Rather than hurt my reputation I built another door, and I have been coring them ever since.

So.... You shouldn't be able to tell by looking at the outside, and if you can't, its a better door so why sweat it. If you can tell, well thats another story......

[Craig Reynolds]

It could be argued both ways depending on how technical one wants to get. I'm not aware of anyone in a production enviroment making solid door stiles using 8/4. Most have gone to an engineered core, using either stave cores or LVL cores. We use a 2-piece laminated stile out of either 4/4 or 5/4 depending on door thickness, then 8/4 for rails.

Chip is correct when he talks about yield. The bigger door makers use frame saws to get 3-4 skins out of a piece of 4/4, and use the strips for stave cores. The part about being warp free comes from marketing to convince people a veneered door is better than a solid door. The real reason for engineered stiles is they are cheaper to make, especially when we're talking about mahogany, walnut, cherry, etc. Lumber quality is also a contributing factor. When we get in an 800-1000bf unit of 8/4, we might only find 10 or so pieces suitable for stiles after milling.

FWIW, 3/16 is pretty thick for door skins. It's probaly a nicely constructed door you're looking at.

[Darren Salyer]

[quote=Craig Reynolds;1004276]. The real reason for engineered stiles is they are cheaper to make,

I respectfully disagree with this statement. They may be cheaper from a material cost standpoint, but overall, with labor and added machines and machining costs, I seriously doubt the savings are large enough to be the driving factor.

Engineered cores and veneer faces are, in my mind anyway, a much more stable and easier to warranty construction method.

come to think of it, the reduction in warranty claims may just be the reason any savings are realized.

All the above merely reflects my 20+ years as a professional trim carpenter.
Darren

[Thomas Bennett]

Here's a photo of mahogany door I made sometime in the '80s. I tried to do the right thing, solid panel, stiles and rails. Mortise and tenon joinery, etc..a lot of fitting for the arched top. It warped.
Over the years I tried various techniques already mentioned here, most with mixed results. I finally decided making exterior doors(for money) is too risky. Good luck!

[ernie riley]

Thanks everyone for the great input. I understand the view of greater stability with lamination, but I wanted to be sure I wasn't getting ripped off on the price. So far the prices for a 3/0 x 6/8 door have ranged from $600 to $1500 for a "solid" mahogany door. I'm amazed that some dealers actually don't know want is in the center of the door if anything.

One dealer explained his high price by stating that his glass insert was a higher quality. Others say the glass they all use is insulated and basically all the same.

Ernie Riley :)

[Kelly C. Hanna]

With old growth wood back in the day, solid doors were just that...no filler and stable. Nowadays with 'new growth; wood that's a gamble. It will warp. All solids in the affordable range are cored. I have no problem with them. You can still get solid wood doors, but they are expensive.

[Mike Yelverton]

This discussion caught my attention because I am about to start construction of solid doors for my shop. These will be two pairs of carriage house style doors with three "lights" (windows) in each door. They will be rails and styles with panels built with mortise and tenon construction out of solid Spanish Cedar. I thought long and hard about building these solid versus cored construction method. I'm still considering my options. Because the Spanish Cedar is lighter and more stable than a mahogany or cherry I decided that solid would be the way to go. Any of you have experience with Spanish Cedar?

[Rick Lucrezi]

I do alot of carpentry work for the owner of Rouge Valley Door in Grants Pass. There door plant is in the old plywood mill here. I cant tell you how many doors they were cranking out a day but it would be a number most people would doubt possible. They sell nation wide and overseas. They have 2 division. There are the mass produced "custom" doors which takes up most of the plant and then a small little hole where they build hand made custom doors. Ive remodled offices and bathrooms there for the last 4 years and I like to take my lunch down in the little shop where the hand made doors are built. Those guys have the best job. The tools are state of the art. The wood species, the quality, the quantity, is un believable. I have seen loaded semi trucks with 12x12 clear vg fir from Canada come in there one after another. The beams go to a machine that slices them like veneer. They get all kinds of exotic woods from all over the country. I know this is neither here nor there regarding the true meaning of "solid" doors, just thought it was cool.

[Darren Duchi]

Hello all- The company that i work for has been making engineered stiles for 12-15 years. We originally started doing this because the manufacturers that we were selling the lumber to had many issues with warpage. This was not a new concept however we decided to use a veneer that was approximately .180 ths. In the beginning we were just making alder stiles, now we make alder, walnut, rustic white oak, cherry, spanish cedar, Incense cedar, and Sapele. I am not familiar with the stability of all of these species in exterior environments but i can vouge for the stability of the products once made into an engineered stile. You should feel very comfortable in purchasing an engineered product.

sorry for the length
darren

[Neal Clayton]

I have often been curious why someone wants a solid 1 piece type of door? I like the sound of it on some level. I had this come up recently with a friend as a matter of fact. What about expansion? What about cupping/warp over time? Where on earth would one find this wood and how much would it cost? I am not asking to be a pain, but really want to know.

A solid wood door sounds attractive, especially in an old home where one wants to keep everything as original as possible, like in a historical district. I too like the look of a real wood door. They ca nbe gorgeous. However, I would probably want to use some type of manmade core for insulation properties and stability. But that is just the practical side of me talking and a little off thread. The traditionalist within me would say something else.

historical accuracy is the reason i like them, yup. if it squeaks on the hinges, or is a bit loose inside the frame, that's character ;).

i don't even use plywood for flat panels.

all that said, i have a 2" thick heart pine door on the front of my house that's well over 100 years old and still fits like a glove. it's a little more snug in the summer than in the winter, but that's part of the charm.