To Hone or Not To Hone?

[Scott Lux]

Well, That's not really my question. I don't want to start a religious argument :D

Now that I have a 1" stationary belt sander, should I buy a leather belt and honing compound for it? Do I risk doing the same terrible things I do to an edge when I try to use a stone? Should I pick of a cone/gouge stone instead? Should I keep going straight from the grinder (WC two speed with the stock wheels) to the wood? Am I wasting time honing?

TIA

Lux

[Curt Fuller]

Am I wasting time honing?

With the exception of a skew, my answer would be yes.

[charlie knighton]

you might get winter 08 copy of American Woodturner

look for an articule intitled Scraper Sharpness by Alan Lacer and Jerry Wright

in coming editions a discussion of what is sharp with tools such as gouges and skew chisels will be published

651-484-9094

[Steve Schlumpf]

Scott - I go straight from the grinder to the wood on every tool that I have. I do use a diamond sharpener to 'hone' the edges on the HSS hollowing bits when using them and that is only because it is a fast way to raise a burr. I raise the burr 5 or 6 times and then take the bit over to the grinder and start the process all over again.

[RL Johnson]

I agree with Curt, the only thing I hone is the skew. You cannot get a skew too sharp.

[Jim Becker]

I generally do not hone turning tools, largely because I sharpen very frequently...that could be after only 30 seconds of finish cutting with spalted material, for example. Honing would get old fast! That said, for the small cutters of my hollowing rig, using a flat honing stone (The diamond type) on the top of them to renew the edge is normal since getting these little things on the grinder, even with a very light touch, takes off a lot of metal.

[Andrew Derhammer]

I'll be one to disagree here, I keep a small sharpening stone in my pocket that is fairly rough. I sharpen by hand a few strokes and it's like new, don't bother with grinders or belt sanders, they are used when reshaping is needed.

[Jim Kountz]

I generally do not hone turning tools, largely because I sharpen very frequently...that could be after only 30 seconds of finish cutting with spalted material, .

Jim is it your experience that spalted wood tends to be harder on tools than wood that is not? Reason I ask is I am working on a spalted bowl and its been giving me horrible tear out problems.

[Vince Welch]

Hi Scott,

I think most everyone has there own method when it comes to honing. Honing requires a acquired touch and these simple habits have helped me develop a better feel in working with these tools.

What I am doing is honing my skew(s). I Have a couple of skews that I use. For my larger skew I do not hone that skew because I use it to get rid of material fast and rough out work. I do hone my two other skews because I use them for finishing type of work. I have a Jet mini lathe that I do not use on a regular basis much any more for turning so I have turned a MDF round on a face plate and dress it with AO or Tripoli. Then just touch up the skew with a quick pass or two standing behind the lathe so the wheel is spinning in the direction it needs to (away from me).

I use a smaller card honing on all scrapers. It is in the same place all the time and reach for it when I reach for a scraper. I run the card over top of any of my scrapers just before I use the scraper then again when I am finished using the scraper and just before I put it back on the shelf. SO I touch up my sraper twice each time I use a scraping tool. The reason is because it only takes a 5-10 seconds to touch up these tools and these tools need to be very sharp...it is just a habit. Honing requires a acquired touch and these simple habits have helped me develop a better feel in working with these tools. Hope this helps. Vince

[robert hainstock]

But not with a stone. I use a 6in hi speed buffer and white diamond. When you go right from the grinder to the lathe you are using an edge that is a FINE sawI hone to smooth that edge. I turn the edge down, and buff both sides briefly to remove the "saw". In effect, I "ride the bevel" I try to think of it as not having to shave with a fresh off the grinder razor. But in all, it is what works for you. The skew should be honed for this reason. I buff hone other edges too. :)
Bob

[Jeff Nicol]

I agree with Steve on this one, always from grinder to the wood. I do have a couple of fine diamond cards that I use when I am turning small finials and miniatures as the sharpest I can get the tool the better for that. Ditto on the hollowing scrapers, raising a quick burr and back into the darkness!

Do what works for you and you will find the happy place that fits your needs! Trying something new and finding it works for you is half the fun!

Have fun and if it gives you an excuse to buy more tools then do it!!!

Have a Happy New Year!

Jeff

[Greg Just]

I agree with Steve on this one, always from grinder to the wood.

[Kaptan J.W. Meek]

I agree with Steve on this one, always from grinder to the wood.

+1... except the big skew.. I hate using a skew, but I REALLY hate using a DULL SKEW..

[Scott Conners]

I definitely hone all my skews with diamond cards. I also hone my parting tools, as it's much faster than returning to the grinder and works well a half dozen times before a real grind is needed. I use my parting tools a LOT.
I find gouges to be annoying to hone properly, so I have a 150g white wheel on one side of my grinder that lets me refresh an edge without taking very much material at all, and when it's well balanced and dressed, it leaves quite a nice edge for finish cuts.

I've been considering setting up some sort of power hone to try, because I've been having problems getting a clean edge on my Thompson tools, they tend to come off the wheel with a slightly jagged edge.

[tim mathis]

Hi Scott, i use a 1 inch sharpener from leevalley. i hone most of my tools . switching from the sharpening belts to the leather belt and back only take seconds. when i hone the tool stays sharper longer ,less sharpening time.
Klingspor and leevalley sells good leather belts and i have had one for 3 years . i can sharpen my 7/8 gouge , 1/2 gouge and scraper after it is set with no adjustments inbetween. the gouges sharpened and honed in less that 1 minute and very sharp.
tim .
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x84/powermatic3520/3sharpenerpix002.jpg
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x84/powermatic3520/3sharpenerpix001.jpg

[Bernie Weishapl]

Since I have gotten the Tormek I hone all of my turning tools. I don't have to go to the grinder a half dozen times to resharpen.

[Duff Bement]

Well heres another opinion. I had bought the SCAREY SHARP SYSTEM for Grizzly about a year ago with a left over gift certificate. It laid in the corner until a couple of months ago. I dug up an old washing machine motor and and antique mandrel and assembled myself a honing system. Needless to say I was a little skeptical but it was worth the try. Now you can see yourself on surface of every cutting edge on my tools. I turned 75 hard maple tops for sister for kid at her school and never took the tool to the grinder. I would just go back to fine wheel and hone it up a little and I was good to go. What a feeling putting a 3/8" gouge to hard maple and start taking ribbons off 18" long and thin enough to read a newspaper thru. I will say today no one thing has improved my turning more than having sharp tools. Sorry so for the soap box sermon but MAN WHAT DIFFERENCE.

[Scott Conners]

Duff, are you talking about the Grizzly system with two 8" MDF wheels? What exactly does the honing process entail? Do you hone the flute of your gouges as well?

[Dean Thomas]

Well, That's not really my question. I don't want to start a religious argument :D

Now that I have a 1" stationary belt sander, should I buy a leather belt and honing compound for it? Do I risk doing the same terrible things I do to an edge when I try to use a stone? Should I pick of a cone/gouge stone instead? Should I keep going straight from the grinder (WC two speed with the stock wheels) to the wood? Am I wasting time honing?

Too late, religious arguement underway...

Most honing and stopping (which is really what the leather belt would do) is really great for hand tools and the non-spinny sort of f-work. Shiny, smooth flat bevels are a real benefit to the flatworker. Makes delicate, precise cuts a joy instead of a challenge. Makes planes work amazingly well. But think about how few strokes and cuts a hand tool makes as to a lathe chisel. When I turn my lathe on and put my nicely sharpened, carefully honed roughing gouge up against some nice maple or oak, flip the switch and select 1500 rpm. in the first 15 seconds of touching those four corners of that square, my gouge has hit wood 1500 times! And I mean HIT the wood. Compare that with a nicely sharpened/honed jack plane blade that is used to lovingly stroke THROUGH the wood without horsepowers' worth of force behind the initial engagement of steel to wood. If that jack plane is used continuously, without coffee break, one stroke per second, it gets about 25 minutes of comparatively gentle usage. Why hone that??

You can probably tell that, for the most part, I'm jumping on the "don't hone" bandwagon. With a well-dressed, correctly selected for grit wheel, you will get a very sufficient edge for turning. Some like 80 grit wheels for their final grind, some 100, some 120. Whatever floats your particular boat and suits your particular needs. Keep the wheels clean and dressed and balanced and you'll do well. That's my story for GOUGES and SCRAPERS, but not for skews, however.

My skew is a different beast all together. I do hone my skews. I can reachieve an edge on a skew with just a couple of licks on a hone or even 400 grit wet-dry. That's done faster than I can get to the grinder and back. Literally 2-4 strokes on each side of the bevel and it's good to go. That is the benefit of hollow ground chisels--you only hone the cutting edge and the heel of the bevel. You can get quite a few quick fixes before you need a major resharpening. This works for hand chisels, too, actually, and is where I learned about it. I was taught this technique by a European-trained piano builder/rebuilder whose chisels were pretty amazing. I honestly cannot remember the rule for going back to the wheel, but I think that it was when the bevel was more than 1/3 honed. Might have been half. It was about time more than anything. If you have to spend 5 minutes honing instead of 10-15 seconds, it's time to visit Mr. Wheel.

One more opinion to add to your research. :cool:

[Duff Bement]

Duff, are you talking about the Grizzly system with two 8" MDF wheels? What exactly does the honing process entail? Do you hone the flute of your gouges as well?
Scott, the wheels are compressed fiber like a very hard cardboard or paper. I was wrong about what they were called though. I just got the new Grizzly catalog and looked it up, it is called the Razor Sharp system(page 198)in the new catalog.

I also agree with the idea that most of the time right off the grinder is fine but now that I have this system I can put an edge back on my tools just as fast and I am not grinding hardly any of the steel away which makes the tools last longer. I think with the HSS they make these tools out of today if you get and edge on them it holds up pretty well. Not everybody needs to hone but for a total of $50.00 this has improved my turning more than any other thing.

[Duff Bement]

Scott, the wheels are compressed fiber like a very hard cardboard or paper. I was wrong about what they were called though. I just got the new Grizzly catalog and looked it up, it is called the Razor Sharp system(page 198)in the new catalog.

I also agree with the idea that most of the time right off the grinder is fine but now that I have this system I can put an edge back on my tools just as fast and I am not grinding hardly any of the steel away which makes the tools last longer. I think with the HSS they make these tools out of today if you get and edge on them it holds up pretty well. Not everybody needs to hone but for a total of $50.00 this has improved my turning more than any other thing.
Sorry I should have finished answering your question.
The system comes with compressed fiber wheels. 1 Has a fine grit on it like a grinding wheel and uses a wax to lubricate the surface to keep it from overheating. The 2nd wheel is just a hard wheel that you charge with a buffing compound and that is what give you the mirror finish. I do not use the grit wheel unless the tool hits something it shouldn't. It only takes a few seconds to bring the edge back.
As far as the flute goes I am just starting to do that part with a Dremel before doing the bevel on the bench. I am not sure how much difference there is but I am hooked on working with sharp tools.

[Dan Forman]

Jim is it your experience that spalted wood tends to be harder on tools than wood that is not? Reason I ask is I am working on a spalted bowl and its been giving me horrible tear out problems.

Jim--- I don't think spalted wood is any harder on tools, it just tends to tear out a lot more because it is in the process of rotting; the fibers are actually breaking down, so they don't cut as cleanly. Depending on how advanced the process is, it can be very difficult to turn this wood cleanly. Sharp, sharp, sharp, is the way to go, and often a sharp scraper will to better than a bowl gouge at cleaning up tear out. In his first Bowl video, Bill Grumbine demonstrates several techniques which can help reduce tear out.

Dan

[Scott Lux]

Too late, religious arguement underway...
And I'm learning with every comment!
My results so far...


Don't hone the gouges.
Hone the skew.
Maybe hone the scraper.
Don't buy a leather belt for the 1" sander, it spins the wrong way anyway.
Sounds like the Razor Sharp warrants more investigation.
Any more thoughts, comments, opinions, or heresies?

Lux

[Curt Fuller]

And I'm learning with every comment!
My results so far...


Don't hone the gouges.
Hone the skew.
Maybe hone the scraper.
Don't buy a leather belt for the 1" sander, it spins the wrong way anyway.
Sounds like the Razor Sharp warrants more investigation.
Any more thoughts, comments, opinions, or heresies?

Lux

Don't hone the scraper. The burr edge created by grinding it is what does the cutting. If you hone it you'll remove that burr.

[Dean Thomas]

Curt's right. Don't hone the scraper. That burr is normally the cutting tool. There is a neat tool, however, that can work wonders for your scrapers. It is a burnisher. (http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/store/Sharpening___Honing___Scraper_Burnisher___scraper_ burnisher?Args=)

Many turners use the burr that comes from the wheel. Clean sharp wheel can produce a reasonable burr, but it's often less than consistent. When a flat worker prepares a cabinet scraper, it is sanded and filed to a point where the edge is as close to perfect as possible. No gouges, no scratches, or other flaws. The burnisher is then used to bend a predictable and uniform "burr" along the scraping edge. Same deal with the burnisher for our turning tools. It makes a stronger cutting edge, and again, more predictable & uniform.

One other comment and it's one that I have not personally validated or disproved. There are folks who will claim that there are times when a scraper works better without the burr. The rub is that these people are not giving me a consistent answer as to when to scrape without a burr. Some say, "Oh, super hardwoods really need to be scraped without a burr." Others have said, "Oh no, it's the very soft woods that should be scraped without a burr." Still working on trying to get consensus or proof on it. So far, I like my burrs. :)