this vs. that

[Rick Lucrezi]

Might be in the wrong section, but needs to be said. I have not been a member here long, and so my opinion may not count for much, but when folks have a difference of opinion about anything at all, we need to be carefull not to criticize their opinion or their way of doing things. Most of us are adults, most of us have nice shops and tools, that means we have done pretty well for ourselves, (not to say those with out shops and tools have not) which means we have made some good decisions, and are fairly competent. I have lived and worked all over the country and in central america, one thing I learned is things are done different everywhere you go. So next time you think "hey that guys an idiot" for doing this or that in a way different from yours, try asking how well it works that way. How about "asking" if they ever heard of it being done another way. The purpose of this site was to share and "educate". Not beat our chests, toot our own horns and make others wrong. Sorry for the spelling and grammer errors and Happy Holidays.

[Paul Demetropoulos]

Very true Rick and well said. When I read a woodworking mag my favorite features are the one'e like "Methods of Work" in FWW or the jigs reader's come up with. I love reading about inventive new ways of doing things.

Most of us have a choice of two or three tools that will preform the same task and often after years of doing something one way you find there's a better way, and you have a "Why didn't I think of that moment".

Happy Holidays to you

[Tom Veatch]

Might be in the wrong section, but needs to be said. I have not been a member here long, and so my opinion may not count for much, but when folks have a difference of opinion about anything at all, we need to be carefull not to criticize their opinion or their way of doing things. ...

Rick, it's good to be reminded of that every so often, but actually, the denizens of the creek are usually very civil to one another, and when they do get a little too close to the line, the very fine moderators are quick to step in and spread a little oil on the water (not to mix a metaphor or anything). Now, some of the boards, groups, forums I've visited seem to have developed the ad hominem attack to a fine art. This one, on the other hand, has a very pleasant tone.

Thank you guys, gals, and moderators for keeping it that way.

[Gary Curtis]

Well said. I know 3 individuals who left this forum in protest after being "flamed."

Gary Curtis

[glenn bradley]

Another 'plus one' on this. SMC has gotten so large now I do not envy the moderators their burden. I moderate on other forums and know the drill. With 10k-plus members you get quite the cross-section of folks with all the positives and the negatives that make any diversity-rich environment fun as well as trying.

I just try to remember some folks just hate Chevy's . . . all Chevy's; even though they haven't even sat in one for 3 decades. Repeat after me; "Tastes Great, Less Filling", "Your Mileage May Vary", "Works for me, MIGHT work for you", "Results Not Typical" and so on.

If all else fails and you find certain members posts disturbing on a regular basis, there is a block feature available; you cannot block folks with Manufacturer's Forum admin rights so you just have to listen to them whenever they want to chime in. Another fix is selective searching as mentioned here (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?p=848944#poststop).

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Well said. I know 3 individuals who left this forum in protest after being "flamed."

Gary Curtis

Gary, I must be out of touch, again, but I have to ask, whats "flamed" mean?

My $.02 on the other subject, sure looks like this forum is far better then the others I've been to. This is on all levels, not just civility. Some people are just different, which works for them, so they just add color here. I really do appreciate the moderators hard work to keep the conversation in bounds. Nearly a million posts, and you know a mod read every one of those.

Happy Holidays to all!

[Pat Germain]

FYI, the term "flame" goes back to the early days of the Internet. It means to attack someone online; especially in a particularly hostile or demeaning manner.

For example, if I posted a comment about how I really like the new Unisaw and another person replied saying I'm an idiot to even consider buying anything from Delta and went on to insult my entire being, that would be a classic "flame". Typically, a violation of an "attack the post and not the poster" policy would also be flaming. :)

[Myk Rian]

"Flame wars" came about before the Internet. Privately run BBS's were the original flame war bases. I ran a 24/7 BBS (Hartland Pride BBS) for 17 years until I shut it down in 2003. Had to keep a handle on some of the people.

[Sonny Edmonds]

Rick, I'm curious if there was something that made you want to say what you are saying. I do agree with you, but being one to call a spade a spade, I have already just turned and walked away from some of the posters here. Instead of pursuing to tell them they were all wet, or flat out wrong.
Even the ones who have kicked dirt on my shoes a few times.
It's there loss, because I tend to put them on "Ignore". It's a Free Country, and I can go pick up dog doo as well as post. (Don't take that wrong, because my dogs are the very best Friends I have ever had the pleasure to love. Better than some of my wives were. ;))
My reason for being on the Internet is and was to share my experiences with others. In my line of work, I have helped many apprentices grow and become journeymen, for example. And at times that takes a cuff upside the head to save them from dieing.
But some don't take well to me. That's OK with me. I figure they will show their ignorance in time. I can pick them out and just let them waller.
I just try and share what I know for a fact, and have done as an example. How else will they learn?
But so far, this has been a nice place to be and share with. Even with a few cow pies here and there to step around. :D
And this should probably be in the Off Topic area. But what the hey?

[Rick Lucrezi]

Sonny, I guess I was reacting to a post where the question about which tool is better and it degraded to flaming about the use of certain tools doing certain types of jobs.
I too was a member of another forum, there was alot of flaming over ideas and techniques. I had enough when I made a post that some how was interpreted wrong by one person, than it became a feeding frenzy like blood in the water with sharks, I tried to explain in more detail as I did see how the guy made the leap but it never made a difference. It was so mind bogling that with out any real knowledge of a sitiuation, people just get into a pack mentality. I would hate to have that happen here. It has caused me to be more careful in the words I choose to use.

[Dewey Torres]

"Flame wars" came about before the Internet. Privately run BBS's were the original flame war bases. I ran a 24/7 BBS (Hartland Pride BBS) for 17 years until I shut it down in 2003. Had to keep a handle on some of the people.

Yes you are correct but as Pat said... "the early days of the internet" were the bulletin boards.

That was before Al Gore invented it:D

[Dewey Torres]

Sonny, I guess I was reacting to a post where the question about which tool is better and it degraded to flaming about the use of certain tools doing certain types of jobs.
I too was a member of another forum, there was alot of flaming over ideas and techniques. I had enough when I made a post that some how was interpreted wrong by one person, than it became a feeding frenzy like blood in the water with sharks, I tried to explain in more detail as I did see how the guy made the leap but it never made a difference. It was so mind bogling that with out any real knowledge of a sitiuation, people just get into a pack mentality. I would hate to have that happen here. It has caused me to be more careful in the words I choose to use.

Rick,
You haven't been here long enough to see what the MODS here do (heck, I just joined in Feb of last year) but they are very keen and don't miss much. Just look at the Shhh don't say Merry Christmas thread for a good example.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=100016

[Karl Brogger]

Grow some thicker skin. When you start losing sleep over what some moron says on an internet board you've got a serious lack of priorities.
This place is like a group hug compared to Politcal Anarchy, on Sailing Anarchy, where the only rule is don't contact the moderators.

[Sonny Edmonds]

Well, that stuff will happen.
Ca-Ca occur es. :rolleyes:
Sometimes people get head up and think one way, and one way only. You and I both know there are many ways.
I will look at machinery and ask myself, what else can I make this do? Where can I make this dual purpose?
If I can answer yes to that question, then it moves up the list and/or into the shop. But it has been a long time since I've shopped for anything beyond materials. I am very happy and comfortable with my shop.
Some fool without any imagination once told me I couldn't mount a feeder on a jointer.
So I did it and showed him he was full of... well you get the idea. ;)
Basically, there will be some areas where boogers will stick to the walls, and idiots will have to run their course until folks figure out for themselves that the advice is half cocked BS that won't fly. I've been watching some of that already elsewhere around here.
But just as we can choose to engage an idiot, we can also choose NOT to engage that same idiot. :cool:
And that, my Friend, is a huge difference.
Great thread, by the way. :)

Now then... I've already done the poop patrol... and it's too dark and cold to go play toy soldiers outside... I think I'll fill up the water dishes and watch some TV and cuddle the dogs maybe... ;)

[Ted Shrader]

Sonny, I guess I was reacting to a post where the question about which tool is better and it degraded to flaming about the use of certain tools doing certain types of jobs. . . . I would hate to have that happen here. It has caused me to be more careful in the words I choose to use.Rick -

Reading your original post and I think I know the thread you are referring to. Those things happen occasionally, even here. The moderators do a fantastic job of keeping an eye on things and jumping in when required.

When reading that post, the following came to mind. There are at least three ways to do every task in woodworking. I will choose one way, you will choose another. Is one better? No. It depends on the tools one has, the skills one has and heavily on personal preference. One may be faster than the other, but the task still gets finished.

A similar thought process can be applied to tool selection. Cost, features, portability, mobility, available shop room, prior prejudices based on brand, etc. I generally gather the info offered and fair through the data presented to develop an opinion. When I give an opinion it is just that, my opinion based on MY experience, not something somebody else said or "I heard somewhere. . ." Other people may have different opinions. There really aren't very many cases where there is an absolute right or wrong - except in the case of safety.

The discussions remain basically friendly and that is why this is the best forum on the net.

Regards,
Ted

[Joe Chritz]

Back when I was training search dogs I quickly learned that you can learn something from everyone. Even if it is what not to do.

Often times (woodworking has more than most) there are multiple ways to do the same thing. What works for one should work for most others but may not be the best way.

I attend all internet postings like this.... this is my opinion, if you didn't want it you wouldn't have posted so take it or leave it. I really don't care if others like it, maybe someone will get something from it.

I do hear where you are coming from.

Joe

[Dewey Torres]

See I told you so... they pulled the Christmas thread I referred to above so I will summarize by saying it turned into a religious debate and they gave warning. There were about three posts after the warning and when I read them I just knew it was going to be gone soon. Rick never got to see a single reply but that is one reason we all love the Creek. :D

Thanks MODS good call BTW.

[Paul Ryan]

I made a comment about our current president and the shoe insident a few weeks back. And the thread was quickly and prompletly removed no signs that it even existed. I was supprised but the moderators did a good job. I dont know if the thread was removed because of my comments or someone else's but it didn't take long to be addressed. Many of use this forum because we are beginners to the woodworking hobby or trade. I learn so much and am very happy to have a resource like this aviable. There are so many very smart and educated people on here reqularly, that I feel very fortunate. I sure I have writtten many things that people have read and say to themself, "that quy is an idiot." I appriciate them holding there tungs or saying it a little more PC. But I really like the honesty and intregrity of this community. And I think much of that thanks should go to the moderators. So thank you.

[Scott Shepherd]

I've been using some form of "internet" since it first came out. Anyone remember using Telnet or alt.blahblahblah? One thing I have learned the hard way (as most of us do on this topic) is that the internet (or written word for that matter) is very difficult to convey certain emotions. Since you are not in front of the person, they can't see your smile when you say something meant to be silly. They can't see your eyes, they can't read your face, they can't read your tone of voice. I haven't found too many people in all my years online who actually come to a forum to get into an argument. It happens, but for the most part, I have found that to be really rare.

I have spoken to people for years and then say one thing that is interpreted wrong and ended up in a month long email compaign to try and get it all worked out. It's just so easy to take something the wrong way because we aren't looking at the people or hearing their voice.

My question, or test, is if we were having this conversation over a beer or cup of coffee, would it raise to this level? And the answer is almost always "No".

Not everyone is a wordsmith (I'm at the bottom of the class when it comes to being able to articulate things properly), so it can be a struggle to get things we think out in the proper way.

I recall getting a nasty nasty reply to a post of mine on another forum. I said something, the guy called me an idiot and then spent about 30 minutes typing the reasons why I was an idiot (I can't dispute that fact). He had his website listed in his profile, I read the post, picked the phone up and called him. I think he was shocked when I introduced myself. After I explained what I meant in my post, he said "Oh, I totally agree with that. I misunderstood what you meant". He apologized on the phone as well as online. It's just so easy to get out of control.

I'm guilty as everyone else. I've read things the wrong way and posted things that weren't clear, which lead to that as well. Just know that it's not something that can't be fixed and I encourage everyone who does have these "bouts" to take the time to PM, call, or email the person and get it straighted out. It's so often just a misunderstanding of meaning.

[Stephen Edwards]

To me, the really cool thing about SMC is that it's basically about woodworking. The OT forum does give us an opportunity to discuss, well, topics other than woodworking, within certain reasonable limits. If I wish to discuss/debate religion or politics (not allowed here for good reasons and most certainly the right of the site owners to do as they see fit) there are literally thousands of other forums devoted to those topics.

I stumbled across the Creek quite by accident early this year. I joined immediately and soon became a contributor. It was the best few bucks I've ever spent on the net!

I've found most people to be very helpful and civil, willing to share knowledge and time to help others with a love of woodworking. I've made three purchases from the classifieds and in each case the transaction was handled flawlessly, in a timely manner and with integrity.

So, my advice to anyone who is offended by someone's less than civil post, ignore that person. There are WAY more good people who participate in this forum than there are bad apples! Life's way too short to get caught up in name calling and anger on a woodworkers' forum.

I remember when I first got hooked up with the internet 10 years ago. I would occasionally visit a placed called Virtual Places. It was a fun place to participate in social chatting. One day this guy came into a chat room with a bad case of the "blues". Turned out that his "girl friend" (someone he'd never met in person, he knew her ONLY online and in that chat room), had ditched him for some other guy in the chat room.....whom she also didn't know in real life. I told that guy...OK....take a deep breath, walk away from your computer and go outside. Look at the sky, the trees, the birds, etc. The net is a wonderful resource. So is LIFE!

[Larry Edgerton]

If its the thread I am thinking of I just read it and it has taught me to keep my opinions to myself. I think I may switch to read only.....

Sorry

[Paul Ryan]

Since you are not in front of the person, they can't see your smile when you say something meant to be silly. They can't see your eyes, they can't read your face, they can't read your tone of voice. I haven't found too many people in all my years online who actually come to a forum to get into an argument. It happens, but for the most part, I have found that to be really rare.

I have spoken to people for years and then say one thing that is interpreted wrong and ended up in a month long email compaign to try and get it all worked out. It's just so easy to take something the wrong way because we aren't looking at the people or hearing their voice.

.[/quote]

The other day I read a post in the deals and discount page that was in response my post. After reading it at first I though the person was telling me I was an idot and needed more tools to do a certian project. After thinking about it for a few hours. I realized more than likly his comment meny that they project I was doing was a way to talk the LOML into more tools. Not that I was a moron for thinking that one tool would complete the project.

This is just a goog example to me that alot of things that are understood as a shot at us. May not be that, but instead a innocent supportive comment. An since we arn't face to face it is easy to take it the wrong way.