Which Miter saw to buy? Need help.

[Barry Allweiss]

Hey everyone, I’m new to the forum and a semi-novice wood worker. I am putting some laminate flooring down in my house and need some advice from you wood working gurus.

I own a good circular saw but a lot of people recommend getting a miter saw for the cross cuts. Here is where the confusion sets in. If I buy a Miter Saw, I want to buy QUALITY. I learned awhile ago that if you “buy cheap, buy twice”. I would like to do other projects in the future (crown molding, bookshelves, etc) so I don’t want to buy a saw that I will yearn to upgrade in a few years

Questions:
1) Do you recommend a good blade for my Circular or get a Compound Miter Saw for the cross cuts?

2) If a Miter saw is recommended, which one does the average woodworker prefer, and why?:
10” Sliding or a 12” non sliding?
Single or Dual Bevel?

3) These are the choices I've seen at local stores in my price range which seem to get good rviews. Any opinions out there on these or anything else?

Non Sliding CMS for ~$300:
- Dewalt DW716: 12” Dual Bevel
- Ridgid MS1250LZ: 12” Single Bevel (Lifetime Warranty)
- Bosch 4212L: 12” Dual Bevel

If push came to shove and I was convinced to buy a Slider, this Bosch got great a great review but I’m not sure if it’s worth the extra $130 for $430.
- Bosch 4410L: 10”

So what do you wooders recommend and why? Any suggestions or know of any good deals?

Thank for your consideration.
Barry

[frank shic]

Barry, if you just need a just saw for cutting laminate flooring, I would strongly recommend a jigsaw. They're much cheaper, pretty easy to use and slightly safer than a compound miter saw. On the other hand, if you want to use laminate flooring as an excuse to purchase a miter saw which is MUCH FASTER on those end cuts and just SCREAMS to the rest of the neighborhood, "I know how to use a miter saw!!!" the bosch, dewalt and ridigid miter saws that you mentioned have all gotten pretty decent reviews. As far as sliders go, they're much heavier and take up more space. If you want a saw for cuting shelving on wall cabinets or TALL trim molding (crown or base) on the flat, a slider wouldn't be a bad investment. I am quite content with my dewalt 706 and I don't think that I'll ever have a need to upgrade to a slider. BTW, laminate flooring will CHEW up your miter saw blade so don't use your Forrest Chopmaster on it, ok?

Your next question will probably be: which mobile stand to purchase?

[Jim O'Dell]

I think the question I would want answered is which miter saw comes with the best blade for laminate flooring. My guess is that you will need a dedicated plastics/laminate blade, or at least something that has a negative hook angle. To you guys and gals in the know, is that right? I'm thinking a slider might come with the best stock blade for laminate, but that may not be true. I doubt that it would be a dedicated laminate blade, but maybe a fair compromise.
Check the manufacturer's websites and use the contact page to ask them that question and see what they say, that is if no one here has a good answer for you. Jim.

[Bob Feeser]

Makita LS1013 is the most accurate. Their are a lot of good ones out there, but Makita LS1013 keeps picking up the top ratings in the reviews. Although it may have gotten dethroned in the last 2 years, I haven't shopped the DCSMS in the last 2 years. It is a little more than some of the others, or maybe a bunch more than some of the examples you gave. What I learned the hard way is that quaity tools, may be a bit of a sacrifice in the beginning, but they return great results and satisfaction to you again, and again. I sold some of my early purchases, because I couldn't stand to use them. In so doing I lost 50 cents on the dollar of the full purchase price. Then I bought the quaity tool. So in the long run it cost me more money to buy cheap, then if I had bit the bullet, and bought the tool I really wanted, right away.
At the time the Bosch came close, with perfect miters, but ever so slightly off on the bevels. Only the Makita gave you perfect cuts, on both miters, bevels, and compound cuts, accurate to a tenth of a degree, measured with a Bosch Digital protractor.
You can read my review on it at Amazon called "Simply Put: It is the Best Compound Slider Out There Period." It is a featured review on Amazon here. I had the LS1212, and loved it so much, when Amazon was discounting the LS1013, then Makita was giving away their cheapy plastic gear 14.4 drill along with it, I bought the LS1013 as well. The LS1013 has the detents for crown moldings, and a larger platform than the 12. THe 12 has a larger blade which gives you more depth capacity, something that you might possibly run into when making angle cuts with wide stock. The blade it comes with creates glass smooth cuts, so no need to upgrade with an expensive blade. It comes with one. The blade on the LS1212 is 100 bucks by itself.
I better quit before I get too wordy. Check out the review.
I can't help it, I love the saw so much, it is like a pin up in your bedroom, when you are growing up. Here is a pic of it.

[Ben Grunow]

As a full time carpenter, I have found the Dewalt sliding and non sliding saws to be very durable. My vote would be the 10 or 12" non slider as a starter for several reasons. Less $, no sliding function to make it easier for the saw to kick and cut your fingers off, lighter as it sounds like you will be moving it around daily and great accuracy and capacity as the 12 will cut 8" boards and 6x6's. More than you prolly need. Buck up for the dual compound if you can as it means no flipping crowns around to cut opposite ends and no limits to which way you work.

[Brian Willan]

Originally Posted by Barry Allweiss

Hey everyone, I’m new to the forum and a semi-novice wood worker. I am putting some laminate flooring down in my house and need some advice from you wood working gurus.

Barry

Your first determining factor is how wide is the laminate flooring your are installing. This will determine if you need a sliding saw or not.

The standard 10" non sliding miter saws will crosscut about 5.5 inches (a nominal 6" board). The standard 12" non sliders will crosscut about 8 inches. You will have to check the specs on those models to get their capacities.

Once that is determined then the decision for slider vs non slider will be made for you. If you are going with a slider version and won't ever likely need to cut 4x4 posts or the like you could also get yourself an 8.5" slider as well. I believe Hitachi makes a good one.

Also keep in mind that installing any flooring product will require ripping some boards to width. This is normally done with a table saw.

There are many ways to skin a cat as you know. If you are looking for an excuse to buy a miter saw then this project is as good as any. If you want to make use of the tools that you do have, you can use your circular saw and any number of the edge guides that are on the market for your crosscuts and rips. You could build what is referred to a saw board (do a search here or via google for details). In the manufacturers section of this site there is a guide rail system that is quite popular and has a bunch of accessories that could be used for your flooring project.

Cheers

Brian

[Jim Nardi]

You don't need to make a super accurate cut for flooring. Laminate eat's up blades.
My preference is for Makita saw's they take a pounding and don't go out of square or break. A 12" saw will cut 99 percent of all trim you come across.

[David DeCristoforo]

My favorite is still the "original" Hitachi 8" compound slider. I bought one when they first came out and used on jobsites and in the shop for many years until it finally wore out. I got a new one and gave the old one to my neighbor and he is still using it even tho the stops for the turntable are shot (he just "locks" it with a "C" clamp. I have used many other saws over the years and have found that the bigger the saw, the harder it is to maintain accuracy. The 8" with the slider has been able to handle just about anything I have had need to do and I've had to do some pretty serious woodwork. One nice this about the smaller blade is that it will not run out as much when you try to "nibble" a cut in hard wood, not to mention that 8" blades are less expensive. Plus, it's a lot easier saw to pack around. I know a lot of guys like the bigger saws and everyone has their own pref. so keep in mind that this is just my own personal preference FWIW....

[Allen Bookout]

Count me in with Bob Feeser. If you decide to get a miter saw be sure and look at the Makita models. I have the Makita LS1013 and I can not imagine any better saw. Tough and very accurate. For me a compound slider is well worth the extra money.

[Mike Henderson]

I have the Bosch 12" and have been very happy with it. I don't use it for flooring but for furniture. I went with the 12" to get a bit more cutting capacity - I don't have room for a slider.

Mike

[Raf Verbruggen]

I have the Festool slider and it works well for me. The dual laser beam is very handy.

Compared to the Bosch, Makita and DeWalt, the festool had one very big advantage for me ... the rails for the slider are at the front. You can place te saw almost with the back against the wall. Very handy when limited space.

I'm also happy with the dust collection ... not perfect but a lot better compared to my old miter.

I think Hitachi also uses this sliding system.

[Henk Marais]

I agree with all about the Makita. I have purchased 4 in the last 6 months. Everytime we exspand our bussiness and put more teams out in the field we supply them with the Makita.

I have purchased a Festool Capex for myself 2 months ago, but the jury is still out on that one. It is a magnifisant tool but I do not know if it was worth the extra cost (aprox 20% mote exsponsive than the Makita)

[Bill Arnold]

Barry,

I've been very pleased with my Dewalt dual compound 12" miter saw. As mentioned, you'll need to buy a blade for the specific material you're using.

[Lou Ferrarini]

I got one of these when I put down about 1000 SF of engineered hardwood flooring and have been very happy with it:

http://www.hitachipowertools.com/sto...h=1,11,53,p213,

It came with a cheap blade. That is all you need for doing flooring. I picked up a good 80 tooth blade for doing trim and moulding.

[Dan Clark]

There are a lot of viewpoints here. Some are quite good and some are a little over the top.

But let's step back a second and look at your needs. Why get a saw that can cut 4" thick boards when your primary need is to cut thin, wide boards? Given that a smaller 10" blade will provided more accurate cuts than a 12" blade, you would probably be better served with a 10" slider.

Regarding the reviews... Do NOT depend on the Amazon reviews. While some are fair and reasonable reviews, some are just marketing posted by vendors or manufacturers. Amazon reviews provide some data points, but you need to do other research.

Regarding Makita saws winning SCMS reviews as one poster mentioned, that's not quite true. If you read the reviews posted over the last 3-4 years, you'll see that the Bosch 4410L has been tops or tied with the Makita for top spot.

I have the Bosch 4410L. I picked it over the Makita because of it's quality, accuracy, and features. The Bosch design is about 3 years old while the Makita is about 8 years old.

While both are good saws, the Makita's design is getting long in the tooth and shows it. Some of the controls are at the back where it's more difficult to reach. And the Makita's rails are the bottom where they can get gunked up more easily. Also, the Makita has a vertical handle. I found this uncomfortable. While the Makita is a very good saw in many respects, it is not perfect as some posters have implied.

While the Bosch 4410L is a good saw, some (including mine) have a flaw with the little extension arms. On mine, it is about 1/16 above the bed. This means that you can't get square cuts if you use it. (I removed mine.) Another problem with the Bosch is the weight. With Delta stand adapter, it weighs 75lbs. That's killing my back!

Regarding Dewalt saws... Originally, I was going to buy the Dewalt DW718 12" SCMS. Many reviews of Dewalt SCMS's indicated that their 12" SCMS was great! After rereading the reviews carefully, I found that the GOOD reviews were about the DW708 and the bad reviews were about the new DW718 (the 708's replacement). The DW718 has been decontented (made more cheaply). The head is floppy and the castings are rough While it looks good, the quality has gone down greatly.

If you can find a used Dewalt saw, it might be a good alternative. Don't buy the new ones.

Regarding Ridgid... I actually bought a Ridgid SCMS and then took it back. The fence was out of square. It had a design or manufacturing flaw such that it didn't have enough play in the adjusting mechanism to make it square. If you buy a Ridgid saw, make SURE that it is or can be aligned properly.

So, what would I recommend? My first choice would be the Festool Kapex. Of course it isn't in the US yet and the cost will be about $1,000.

My second choice would be the Makita LS1013. It's lighter than the Bosch and has slightly better accuracy. Just be aware of it's limitations.

Regards,

Dan.