Another Shooting: At My Daughter's Church

[Pat Germain]

So I'm working in the shop this morning when I feel a buzz in my pocket. Since it was my daughter, I answered my phone. My daughter informs me there had just been a shooting at her church. She tells me she wasnt at the church at the time, but her friend was nearby when it happened and wasn't hurt.

All I could think was, 1. Daughter OK; check! 2. Daughter's friend is OK: check! There were few details, but my daughter heard the shooter was a young man who attended the church. I wondered if this had anything to do with the other shooting that happened last night near Denver.

I just learned from news reports that an armed security guard at my daughter's church shot and killed the attacker. While it's quite sad that a church has to have armed security guards, I'm sure glad my daughter's church accepts it and does it. Otherwise, this could have been much worse. My daughter often attends Sunday morning services, but this weekend decided to attend the Saturday service.

The attacker shot three people. One of them just died at the local hospital. Oh, the humanity.

[Todd Burch]

Sad. Very sad.

My church teams with armed security.

Todd

[Bruce Page]

I’m very glad your daughter and friend are ok. I don’t know what it is about the holidays that brings out the scum sucking wackos.

[Bryan Berguson]

I'm very glad your daughter is okay. Unfortunately, somebodys isn't. These things are terrible any time but seem that much worse around Christmas. I pray that the faith of the victims families is strong and can pull them through.

Bryan

[Pat Germain]

My daughter's church is gigantic. If she had attended service the morning, I guess the chances that she would have been right there when it happened are pretty slim, but golly, that's still oh so close to home. My church is also large, but I don't know if we have armed security. If we don't, I think it's high time we get it.

My daughter's church has been through a lot this year. Yes, it's the same one which lost their pastor due to a much publicized scandal early in 2007. No matter how bad that was, nobody died. All that scandal stuff seems pretty trivial now.

Thanks for the prayers and well-wishes, everyone.

[Tim A. Mitchell]

First off, glad to hear you and yours are safe.
Second off, Disclaimer: this post does not speak of religion, nor does it flame. It discusses items from the news, and items from this thread..

I don’t know what it is about the holidays that brings out the scum sucking wackos.

Judge not lest ye be judged. The question here is why he did this, not that he himself is flawed. I am curious if he was a member, and perhaps tripped up over something said. The "scandal" that Pat refers to had a lot to do with judging. There was (is?) a lot of hate towards homosexuals being preached by Ted Haggard, only to have his role in it come to an end when the hypocrisy was uncovered. Bottom line is, we do not know why he decided to do what he did.

My daughter's church has been through a lot this year. Yes, it's the same one which lost their pastor due to a much publicized scandal early in 2007. No matter how bad that was, nobody died. All that scandal stuff seems pretty trivial now.

For those not familiar, it is partially being reiterated in the news now:

New Life was founded by the Rev. Ted Haggard, who was fired last year after a former male prostitute alleged he had a three-year cash-for-sex relationship with him. Haggard, then the president of the National Association of Evangelicals, admitted committing undisclosed "sexual immorality."
The New Life Church is one of Colorado's largest, with about 10,000 members.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22171718/

And for those who question what the undisclosed items were, no one could say for sure, but they were in relation to the male prostitute from whom Ted admitted purchasing meth.

[Pat Germain]

My daughter said she heard the shooter was a young man who attended church at New Life. Obviously, this has not been confirmed. Also, the shooter apparently chose a car with a family as a target. Two of the victims were sisters. One has died and the other isn't doing as well as initially thought. Any and all prayers would be appreciated and most helpful.

Currently, there's nothing to suggest this shooting had anything to do with Haggard. I don't want to get into the scandal, but I feel it necessary to point out Haggard did not actually "preach a lot of hate" toward homosexuals, or anyone else. He simply didn't support the lifestyle or gay marriage. The hipocracy lies there.

The police are being pretty tight-lipped about this shooting. Likely, this is because they're trying to determine if it was at all related to the other shooting last night near Denver. There were some reports about possible explosives somewhere and another attacker, but nothing has turned up so far.

[Jon Lanier]

We run anywhere from 75-100 depending on time of year... and so forth. We don't have security and do not plan to have any. I would imagine that the majority of churches would fall into the same line.

[Pat Germain]

I think you're right about that, Jon. The vast majority of America's churches are quite small and likely don't require security. Obviously, New Life, as well as my church, are quite large and some kind of security is essential lest we become targets of thievery and evil.

[David G Baker]

I would never have thought about having to have armed guards at a church. Guess I am still living in the past. Luckily someone thought about it or a lot more damage could have been done.

[Jim Becker]

News reports said the Colorado Springs church put on additional security after the church shooting farther north.

[David G Baker]

I went to the churches web site and read the information that the church gave in a morning press conference. The security guard was a woman and she met the guy as he was headed for the area where all of the people were holding services. With the amount of ammunition he was carrying he could have killed a massive number of people if she hadn't stopped him.

[Pat Germain]

My daughter's roommate was interviewed by ABC news for her story. She was next to the van where the two girls and their dad were shot.

After shooting into the van, the gunman then went into the building where he fired multiple shots, but amazingly did not hit anyone. Then the security guard shot him dead. (The service had actually ended and people were milling about.) He was carrying about 1,000 rounds of ammunition as well as smoke grenades. That security guard obviously prevented a much greater massacre.

It's still not clear why this guy targeted New Life. Apparently, one of the girls he killed recently returned from a mission trip to China, but he chose her and her family at random.

I sometimes served on security detail at my church in Virginia. We weren't armed. Although this church was much smaller than New Life, there were still a lot of cars in the parking lot during service. Since people aren't coming and going during the service, thieves see church parking lots as easy targets. Even with a security patrol, we once had a guy evading police break into a member's car and drive off before we could do anything about it.

[Russ Filtz]

All these shootings should be a wake up call. Most occur where there are large gatherings of people, but most of these places prohibit, either by policy or law, carrying a means of protecting yourself. Don't want to turn this into a 2A debate though, just an observation.

The church was lucky they had hired armed security, otherwise we've seen what could have happened before. Remember, you can't always depend on others for protection. You need to have your own plan.

"When seconds count, the police are only minutes away"

[skip coyne]

All these shootings should be a wake up call. Most occur where there are large gatherings of people, but most of these places prohibit, either by policy or law, carrying a means of protecting yourself. Don't want to turn this into a 2A debate though, just an observation.

do you really think these whack jobs think it out in that much detail ?