Big chisel contest

[Zach Dillinger]

Take your pick....
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[stephen thomas]

Take your pick....

I'll bite.
What are they for?

"Some" of mine.

Various states of use, and dis-use over the decades.
2nd up, bottom right was near new, and aprox 4" longer when acquired in the mid 70's
Rehardened it twice. For water hardening steel, it is difficult (or perhaps i should say impractical) to fully harden more than about 2" at a time. So as it gets used up, this type of laminated steel will need annealing, re-hardening, and light tempering.

DSC_0002.jpgDSC_0004.jpg

[Cameron Wood]

Wonderful. I can't make out who the maker is but the sign above it signifies that the smith was apart of the Tokyo Chisel Group. It's likely white #1 steel and very hard. Very nice chisel - I'm jealous!

Thanks for the info. I did not know that there was a Tokyo Chisel Group.

[Tom Bender]

Bought this 3" slick for a timber framing project. It's been sorta useful a couple of times. It's 32" long. Came with a pitiful handle so I made this one.

Slick 32%22.jpg

[Zach Dillinger]

[/COLOR]

I'll bite.
What are they for?

The top is a bisaigue, a French carpenter's timber framing tool. It has two chisels on it for double the fun/double the chance of drawing blood. The second one is a standard timber framing chisel, the largest one I have. The third tool is a French "chisel axe", but it isn't used as an axe at all, just a large chisel/semi plane.

[Cameron Wood]

The top is a bisaigue, a French carpenter's timber framing tool. It has two chisels on it for double the fun/double the chance of drawing blood. The second one is a standard timber framing chisel, the largest one I have. The third tool is a French "chisel axe", but it isn't used as an axe at all, just a large chisel/semi plane.

I've seen sidewall shinglers use a 'chisel axe' by welding a plane iron to back of their shingle hatchet, & use it to shave the corners, & trim shingles.

[stephen thomas]

The top is a bisaigue, a French carpenter's timber framing tool. It has two chisels on it for double the fun/double the chance of drawing blood. The second one is a standard timber framing chisel, the largest one I have. The third tool is a French "chisel axe", but it isn't used as an axe at all, just a large chisel/semi plane.

I've got (& used and used up) lots of framing chisels over the past 50 years.
Never saw the other 2, and even have a copy of Roubo. (Maybe time to look more carefully.)

Is the idea to beat on #3 with a beatle/hammer/ etc, or is it just shoved like a slick?

[Zach Dillinger]

Is the idea to beat on #3 with a beatle/hammer/ etc, or is it just shoved like a slick?[/COLOR]

Pushed like a slick, never struck with a mallet etc.

[Warren Mickley]

I've got (& used and used up) lots of framing chisels over the past 50 years.
Never saw the other 2, and even have a copy of Roubo. (Maybe time to look more carefully.)

Is the idea to beat on #3 with a beatle/hammer/ etc, or is it just shoved like a slick?[/COLOR]

The bisaigue is illustrated in Diderot (1755) under Carpentry tools. There is a man using one in a building scene.

It is not shown in Roubo, which does not concern carpentry.

carpenter diderot.jpg

[Jim Koepke]

carpenter diderot.jpg

It looks like the worker cutting the mortises is packing quite a wallop on that chisel.

jtk

[stephen thomas]

Thanks, guys!
Diderot is on the shelf here, too.

The bisaigue is illustrated in Diderot (1755) under Carpentry tools. There is a man using one in a building scene.

It is not shown in Roubo, which does not concern carpentry.

Warren -
Roubo's tome, "L'arte du Menuisier" translates to "the art (or craft) of the carpenter".

Menuisier is French for carpenter, you have to use context to determine what sort of carpenter, whether framing (charpentier) or joiner.
But it is a catch-all term not unlike in the US except that a wider range of better skills is assumed.

Most of Roubo is what would now be called millwork including the installation of same.
The province of joiners, but also carpenters
My trade. There is a lot of overlap with carpentry, and some in Roubo is titled as such.
E.g.: "Construction des planchers, des stalles, et la maniere de faire la charpente, quilles portent"

Besides all the carpentry for supporting and making large cased windows, doors, floors in those days, choir seating, etc, there is also a section on outdoor woodwork constructions for gardens that are essentially carpentry.
(I made a lot of that stuff, too)

There is a little bit about furniture, which is usually made in different sorts of work places, by ebenistes.
As well as some carriage making.

smt

[Warren Mickley]

Thanks, guys!
Diderot is on the shelf here, too.

[/I]

Warren -
Roubo's tome, "L'arte du Menuisier" translates to "the art (or craft) of the carpenter".

Menuisier is French for carpenter, you have to use context to determine what sort of carpenter, whether framing (charpentier) or joiner.
But it is a catch-all term not unlike in the US except that a wider range of better skills is assumed.

Most of Roubo is what would now be called millwork including the installation of same.
The province of joiners, but also carpenters
My trade. There is a lot of overlap with carpentry, and some in Roubo is titled as such.
E.g.: "Construction des planchers, des stalles, et la maniere de faire la charpente, quilles portent"

Besides all the carpentry for supporting and making large cased windows, doors, floors in those days, choir seating, etc, there is also a section on outdoor woodwork constructions for gardens that are essentially carpentry.
(I made a lot of that stuff, too)

There is a little bit about furniture, which is usually made in different sorts of work places, by ebenistes.
As well as some carriage making.

smt

You can translate menuisier as carpenter if you want, but that is not the way it would have been translated in the 18th century. Carpenters were called charpentiers and they built buildings not windows. They were the ones using a bisaigue. I suspect you didn't find a bisaigue in Roubo.

Words change over the centuries this is one word that now has a wider meaning. Another example of this is jumelles, part of a lathe in the 18th century. Try looking it up on Google Translate today.

[steven c newman]

Which would the same French Journeyman ( and women) who are repairing the Cathedral of Notre Dame.....

[stephen thomas]

You can translate menuisier as carpenter if you want, but that is not the way it would have been translated in the 18th century. Carpenters were called charpentiers and they built buildings not windows. They were the ones using a bisaigue.

Quite a bit of Roubo is carpentry. The parts about windows are the supporting structures, as with how to lay out the wooden grounds (in masonry) or joists for parquet floors. I would be intrigued to understand more about the trades in France at that time. My sense is that they were fairly fluid. There were masters, and then anyone who could do the work was pressed into service, it seems. But i don't have a lot to read deeply in.

I suspect you didn't find a bisaigue in Roubo.

It still surprises me - I mean the guy shows pit sawyers, veneer sawyers, and other tradesmen that were dead hard work, but not particularly skilled.
Roubo had catholic tastes and something of a pragmatic outlook, at least as evidenced by his work.
Basically, "anything woodwork" interested him though he seems to have been more fascinated with how it applied to buildings ("millwork", today) and wooden machines and vehicles.
His plates on building a pool table are an interesting historical resource for cues (primarily maces in those days, but you can begin to see a transition) that i had overlooked.
etc.

I got a better sense of how the bisaigue was used from these photos posed on the site "A Woodworker's Musings" by DB Laney.
According to the contemporary article, Juliette was apparently the only female carpenter in France, ca 1900.
I'd have had plenty of applications to use it while installing millwork, if i had known such existed.

juliette-caron bisaigue.jpgjuliette-caron ladder.jpg