How many of you that do woodworkng for a living still enjoy it?

[David Weaver]

I agree with Larry. I wouldn't turn the guy in, either. I don't know what the right answer is in this situation, but when you know a law is over the top, turning around and trying to nail everyone who isn't following it to the letter doesn't seem to me like something I would want to be involved with.

[Larry Edgerton]

I agree with Larry. I wouldn't turn the guy in, either. I don't know what the right answer is in this situation, but when you know a law is over the top, turning around and trying to nail everyone who isn't following it to the letter doesn't seem to me like something I would want to be involved with.

Exactly. The law as it is written is a load of do-do. Its not even a law really, and as such the EPA can write down whatever BS they feel like and make us pay for the licence and then go out of business if we try to comply. If the rules were reasonable, I would expect everyone to follow them, but they are not. I myself am not willing to take a chance because every time I have anything to do with the government, I lose. Yes, I fear my own government. Have lost the faith indeed....

Really, and I am talking to the fellow two post back, if you had taken the course, and you knew anything about construction, you would agree with me. Just because the government passes a law or a code, it neither makes it logical or just. In this case I firmly believe that MORE children will be exposed to lead because the cost of containment is so high because the procedures are rediculous. No one wants to pay for this . I know I won't be bidding on any more restorations.......

Why bother?

[johnny means]

Quite frankly, I am tired of long, hard work weeks with little pay. I am still fairly young (24), and feel that if I want to make a career change, now is the time. I don't want to end up working my life away

I hate to sound harsh, but these statements make me think your not cut out for this biz. Woodworking is a constant grind and it's hard. Loving this work borders on S & M.

That said I own my my own furniture business and I absolutely love what I do. I can count one one hand the things that bring me more joy than making things from wood. I've been in the field for about 11 years and on my own for about 6. It has been extremely hard. I consider a 60 hour week "taking it easy".

Also, one needs to be realistic about one's products. Either you compete with every other shop out there or you differentiate yourself and commit yourself to marketing as a full time job. For instance, your spear guns could be an excellent niche, but I am sure it's a very limited and dispersed market. How will you make sure that every single spear gun shopper sees what you have to offer? Remember you will be competing with huge companies who will spend big bucks to out shine you.

The question is how much do you enjoy woodworking? Enough to outweigh the long hours, hard work, financial hard times, sleepless nights due to deadlines and looming bills. Will your wife put up with all this? My wife, God bless her, let my business push us to the brink of foreclosure. We literally closed a deal and received a hefty down payment hours before foreclosure proceedings. It's a rare person that will share and support your dreams to that extent. My children have lived in the dark, literally, while daddy paid for material. Many people would call me a fool for risking so much in order to do what I love, but I believed deep inside that my idea was a winner and I was already "all in". Many times we had nothing but faith in ourselves to keep us going.

[Tony Bilello]

.... Either you compete with every other shop out there or you differentiate yourself and commit yourself to marketing as a full time job. .... Remember you will be competing with huge companies who will spend big bucks to out shine you....

I think a point many people miss is that you are not in competition with other woodworkers but rather you are in competition with the whole world. You are competing with everyone for dollars. Even if you have a good rap and a good product, somewhere in the back of peoples minds is "do I buy his woodworking or do I get a wide screen TV or put a down payment on a car or maybe take a cruise instead.
Even when I have a customer ask for a refinishing estimate insisting that they only want an estimate now for work later down the line, I still bring my 16' box truck and 1 employee. I learned a long time ago, if they change their mind and decide to go forward with your work you better get your deposit now and take the furniture immediately. If you have to come back tomorrow, they will have time to think, change their mind and spend the money elsewhere.

[Jeff Duncan]

I think you probably made the right choice. It's always tough to give advice based on such little information about a person. But it sounds like you would have had a tough time of it. To run your own woodworking business for a living is requires much more than being owning a couple machines and making some odds and ends for friends. You have to be able to run a business. You have to be able to deal with the myriad of different aspects that have nothing to do with making dust. And if your starting off a one man show as you describe, well then you have to be able to produce work. No offense but cutting boards and such will probably not make you $18k a year. There are many different niches in the woodworking fields all requiring there own talents, but you definitely need something you can sell and bring in a steady income.

As for your question, yeah I still enjoy what I do most days. But I'm in a very lucky place in that people come to me to build a lot of unique things. Sure I build a lot of basic stuff, kitchens, vanities etc. But just last month I finished a curved bar for a restaurant. I finished up some cherry bookcases last week, couple interior doors this week, and in a couple more weeks a fairly large set of bookshelves with a curved section in the middle. These are the jobs that make it worth it for me but it's not easy and it's not for everyone. Believe me when I say there are many days (most of them actually) I'd love to sit in a cab and move dirt back and forth for union wages. Just remember....the grass is always greener......
good luck,
JeffD

[keith micinski]

You would love it till you had to get up at 3 A. M. and do it for 16 hours just to go home and get a few hours of sleep and then 6 months later your still doing it and all you have to show for it is a different pile of dirt in a different area. Sometimes the grass really is greener. Also sitting in a cab is common myth. Bouncing around in Heavy equipment all day is the equivalent of getting beaten with a bat all day. But hey they pay me a lot at least so it helps. I still say, any chance you get to start your own business take it and if you fail pick your self up and do it again.

[Dave MacArthur]

Concur with folks above that owning and running a business is MOSTLY about owning and running a business... and not much about what that business makes or does. There's a reason the CEO from a bank can become the CEO for an airline or car-maker a year later, and there are schools and degrees for business. As I'm sure you well know from your hard work at your current dental lab business! Someone above made the good point that unless you're in the top 5% talent (in any skill area) and getting paid accordingly some premium for your work, you will have to make your profit on the work of others for which you try to minimize your cost--this will end up being the exact opposite of "woodworking" in practice.

I own and run a property management company, a handyman/repair LLC, and just retired from the AF... which has caused some recent introspection on how I've spent my time. Here's a thought for you: at 24, if I was making $18k/year working 70 hours/wk and not enjoying life, I'd join the military. Sorry, out of left field, but hey--see the world, learn some skills, depending on what you go in as you could make decent pay way over that, and most bases have a fully-decked-out woodshop you can use for free for your woodworking hobbyist enjoyment. There are a LOT of days I don't want to try to rent houses or do some repair... but I almost can't think of a week I didn't love my AF job for almost 25 years. YMMV, but worth a thought

[J.R. Rutter]

I enjoy parts of it, mainly being getting paid...

lol - that's my favorite part, too!

It boils down to being work. I don't mind the work most of the time, especially with employees to take care of a lot of it. (Of course, there are headaches associated with people as well.)

60-70 hours a week for 3 years is too much work. You would be better off hiring someone to do part of that and working on getting the procedures and techniques in place to be able to get profitable.

[Paul Murphy]

Please don't read this as more than a generalised take on the topic, but my personal view on this sort of thing is that it all depends on your beliefs/perception, and where you look to for happiness. You basically get what you put out. There's no activity or situation that delivers happiness (or unhappiness) per se, it's essentially an internal state that arises naturally if you can be easy, and can see/connect with the positive in your situation (whatever it is), and the basically benevolent nature of life rather than the negatives. One man's hell is another's heaven - but to get angry or negative is always our own decision.

Adopt a consistently self focused and negative tone, criticise everything and as a result of feeling hard done by stop giving, and stop manifesting goodwill - and that's precisely the reality you will build for yourself.

Balance is also important. It's nice to have enough money to get by, it's nice to work but not to have make a slave of yourself etc. Unwise and uncaring beliefs drive us into behaviours that create unhappiness. (for ourselves, or for others)

The problems that flow from negative beliefs materialise in very ordinary ways. To take a woodworking business example - set a very high income target as a result of putting too much faith in money, put yourself in hock to the bank for loans to get set up, and saddle yourself with very aggressive business targets and there's a definite possibility it won't be much fun unless you are one of those people that get off on that sort of environment. Cheapskate your customers out of lack of care and a selfish focus on profit, and you'll pay a price too.

It may very well be a good decision for you to step away and start off down your own life path, but keep the focus nice and relaxed and open, and try to make sure that there's no tunnel vision at work - that any decisions take account of the big picture....

Ian has an insightful take on one aspect of the situation, try to have the "glass half-full" outlook.
Where I part company with this is you have to be ruthlessly disciplined in creating and finding fault with your "business model". No amount of hard work and positive outlook will make up for a missing or poorly planned business model. If the numbers don't work, change the business model to make the numbers work. Some business models don't work in every location, so consider that in your plan.

I have a good friend who spent 3 years and lots of savings on a business that never had a large enough customer base to succeed. He had a great attitude, great work ethic, and marginal business plan. Luckily he never quit his day job.

[Alan Beech]

I run my own business.

I learned the hard way that you can either work IN the business or you can work ON the business. 18k for 70hrs a week means you are working IN the business with no opportunity to see beyond what's occurring for that day. Take a day off and anmswer some questions for yourself.

1) Does the business have a plan for a more prosperous future.
2) If NO then quickly find something else to do
3) If YES then are you working to the plan or just working IN the business
4) If YES then stick with it if the rewards are going to be there
6) If NO then quickly find another job
7) Then ask. WHAT do you want to do ? May take a few days to figure out. Make it concrete and visible with some attainable goals you could measure at any point in time. Then its time to work out a plan to get to the goals.
8) Dependants. Does your father depend/rely on you to work in the business. If you wern't there would he have to employ and pay for a full time worker. What would he have to pay.? Is your fiance also critical to the business. Ask the same question.

I know all this sounds very different from working IN your business. If you were working ON your business you would be checking and answering these issues on a weekly/monthly basis.

regards
Alan
PS Business is at best a nice even world to be in. At its worst it is ruthless and demanding of time, money and relationships. Be prepared.

[Chris Cohick]

I found another fossil thread I think might be worthy of dusting off. Some of the advice and personal experience shared here is invaluable, and it is certainly an interesting read.

[Peter Aeschliman]

Thanks for reviving this. Great thread!

[James White]

John,

Did you start a woodworking business or did you stick to the dental lab? How are things going?

James

[Mike Schuch]

60 hours a week is not unusual work hours for someone building a business. I don't believe you will be successful starting your own business if 60 hours a week is too much for you. But spending 60 hours a week building your own business is probably much more rewarding than spending 60 hours a week building someone else's business.

Making things is a very small part of owning a business. Running a business is much more time consuming than actually practicing the craft that the business is centered around. Where are you going to sell the goods you make? How much of your time do you think will be dedicated to selling your goods vs actually making them? How much of your time do you think you will spend ordering materials, doing the books, paying the bills, doing taxes (You know you pay double social security when you are self employed?) etc? How much do you think it will cost you to make your goods vs how much do you think you can sell them for? You might find the $6 is great pay compared to owning your own business!

You might also find that being an entrepreneur IS your calling in life and it is the most rewarding thing you have ever done. No one can answer that for you.

I have always been talented with computers and worked my way through College consulting on computers. The consulting part I was great at. The billing, collections, inventory, paperwork etc... not so great at. I have worked for a couple of companies since graduating many years ago and I get to do what I am good at and not have to futz with the business/accounting part that I am not good at. I enjoy working with computers but it is a job and it is work! Working with computers is no where near as fun as when I was a nerdy kid spending my every spare moment working on them. Woodworking is my low tech hobby that is a nice contrast to my high-tech career.

[jack duren]

The reason I ask is well, basically I hate my job. Right now I own and opperate a small dental laboratory with my fiance and my dad. I currently work about 60-70 hours a week, sometimes more. Pretty much whatever it takes to get the cases finished. The pay is minimal, I made 18k last year Quite frankly, I am tired of long, hard work weeks with little pay. I am still fairly young (24), and feel that if I want to make a career change, now is the time. I now a few other lab techs that have been in the business for a long time, and they all work very hard. I don't want to end up working my life away.

I like woodworking, and was just tossing around the idea of opening up a small shop selling cutting boards, bowls, salt/pepper shakers etc.. Small things that people don't hesitate to buy if they like it, and that are easy to make. I figure that as my skills get better I could start offering things like chairs, small tables and expand as I get better. I have been wanting to learn how to make real furniture since I joined this site a few years ago, but my current job just doesn't afford me the time it takes to do good woodworking.
I have been making spearguns and cutting boards for a while already. Some of my spearguns I think could easily sell for $500-750.

I just dont want to turn my hobby into my job, and end up hating it too. So, for you guys that do it for a living, is it still enjoyable? Do you wish you had ended up making a different career choice? Is the amount money you make reasonable for the amount of time you put into the job?

Thanks in advance, any and all input will be greatly appreciated!
John K

Yea cabinetry or commercial can be fun for awhile. You start out at the bottom and work your way up the ladder year after year. You learn each aspect of the job with a few twists here and there to make it interesting. You'll get to the point where your maxed at pay wherever you go and the only enjoyment is a change of scenery,tool or company. You'll start a lil shop in the garage for fun so you can build personal things that "YOU" want and think you can make a few dollars selling things. You start purchasing tools from smaller sales and start to think "hey I could work for myself". I'll stop there...

Now this would be the start of my story after 32 years as a professional cabinet and commercial/fixture maker . Now what I'm doing now in woodworking is different than what I did for the last 30 years and most likely will do it the rest of my life if its up to me. I've been a comm-residential cabinet maker since I was 18, 50 now. The ups and downs plus the economy with drive you batty batman Take a hard look at your options and a hobby before you step out.

So personally I wouldn't suggest doing it for anything more than a hobby and few bucks. Cabinet and commercial guys here in Kansas City are a dime a dozen and a lot have 10 years or more for experience.