Retorquing tires?!

[Wade Lippman]

what kind of rims do you have? As was stated it may be a good idea to recheck torque on the wheel lugs. will they charge you for this service?

Aluminum rims on a Subaru Impreza.
Excellent question. I just called; they say it is free and takes a few seconds. I guess we will see.

Mel...
A few years back I got an oil change. For no particular reason I opened the hood when I got home and found there was no oil cap. So I guess they could forget to tighten the nuts.
I probably had 100 oil changes and have never checked on the other 99; I have no idea why I looked on that particular one. Maybe it sounded different?

[Jeff Monson]

I believe some shops say to re torque them for liability reasons. I own a repair shop (20 years this fall) we have removed and replaced thousands of wheels. We use only torque sticks or manually torque them (technician preference)...anyways I have had one wheel come loose in those thousands that have been done. We DO NOT require or suggest a customer to return to get the nuts retightened. Makes no sense to me other than liability, given the job was done correctly to start with.

[Mike Henderson]

I think they've learned that to make the lug nuts truly unremovable, they need two chances with the impact wrench.

True, true. I had a flat on the road and it was impossible to get the lug nuts off with the wrench that came with the car. A cop stopped to help - young, strong, big shoulders - he couldn't get them off either. AAA guy came with a cordless impact wrench to get the nuts off.

Mike

[mike mcilroy]

I believe some shops say to re torque them for liability reasons. I own a repair shop (20 years this fall) we have removed and replaced thousands of wheels. We use only torque sticks or manually torque them (technician preference)...anyways I have had one wheel come loose in those thousands that have been done. We DO NOT require or suggest a customer to return to get the nuts retightened. Makes no sense to me other than liability, given the job was done correctly to start with..

You're right. I was told this by a Walmart employee. I always do it anyway at home.

I'm sure a big company with thousands of employees like Walmart has to assume that it won't be done correctly 100% of the time.

[George Bokros]

I do not like them to use torque sticks. Every time they do I cannot get the wheels of to rotate my tires. Just think what I would have to do if I had a flat. I torque mine home to the low end of the spec.

I know many mfg of aftermarket aluminum wheels recommend to re-torque after 50 miles.

[Chris Parks]

It is standard practise with trucks to always check the torque after a specified distance. Nowadays they fit indicators to wheel nuts so the driver can check visually them during his pre-trip check and yes I have seen them move.

[Lee Schierer]

Aluminum wheels can relax a little after torquing, effectively loosening the lug nuts. Steel wheels don't have that problem. It is a wise thing to have them checked after the wheels have been off between 25-50 miles. Aluminum wire has the same problem in electrical boxes which is why the screws in a panel should be check periodically. It has nothing to do with rotors warping as the wheel does not connect to the rotor.

[Mike Lassiter]

It has nothing to do with rotors warping as the wheel does not connect to the rotor.

That's incorrect. in older vehicles the front hubs where the rotor and hub assembly while most now days have a hub with a separate rotor that is sandwiched between the wheel (rim) and hub. When I worked on automobiles (moved on the semi trucks and so forth) if you EVER called Bendix or Wagner brake helpline for tech assistance one of if not the first question they always ask was "did you TORQUE the wheel nuts?" Argument for uniform clamping between the wheel (rim) and hub minimizes warping of the rotor.

Another point regarding impact usage is most reputable shops use what are called torque sticks that are varying sized and diameter sockets with built in extensions that will limit maximum torque from impact usage. If you take a smaller diameter and/or longer length shaft it will absorb a good deal of the impact hammering force and you get these in different torque limits. If you have ever tried removing a tight bolt or nut with a extension and couldn't but could remove the extension or use a shorter one and then could you will understand how they work. Back in those days when I installed wheels back after doing brake work or tire replacement I used a TORQUE WRENCH to tighten the wheel nuts.

This is common place even with big trucks now - torqueing the wheel nuts, and ever TA truck stop also prints out on the invoice and tells the driver/ customer that the wheel nuts MUST BE retorqed within a specific amount of time. This is largely due to liability on their part. Or anyone who installs wheels actually. If a wheel runs off - especially a steer tire and causes a accident or injury/death the legal liability is HUGH.

Steel wheels are just as likely as the "mag" wheels to do this. There are established guidelines for installing wheels back on semi trucks that have the tech use a special wire brush on a power drill/driver that will clean the threads of any debris and rust. The brake drum is also cleaned on the area the wheels contact and the wheel(s) and also cleaned in the contact area to ensure there is a clean surface with no rust or dirt/mud or peeling paint etc. that will prevent all mating surfaces from DIRECT contact. Then a couple of drops of oil are sprayed on the wheel nut washer and they are installed in a cress-cross pattern that has the nuts tightened opposite the one just tightened to give even clamping around the wheels. They are torqued using a torque wrench that is designed specifically for tightening truck wheel nuts, in that the handle breaks away in the middle (not depending on a audible "click" as background noise in a truck shop likely would be too loud to hear that). I understand I am speaking about trucks here as that is what I have worked on over 20 years, but wheels run off cars from improper installation. Everyone that works on them for a living is technically a "pro" yet, many will run the nuts up with a impact with no torque stick and swear to you they are so good that they can "feel" the right torque and everything will be good. I have removed tires and wheels from cars that the previous "pro" tightened so tight the studs were stretched and the threads no longer matched. Some twisted the studs off - trying to REMOVE the nuts. Some work to a higher standard than others, yet both are "pro's". The time to torque them is when they are installed. Torque sticks are industry accepted way to do it without the extra time to have someone physically use a torque wrench on every nut.

I worked at Waste Management for 8 years as a tech, then supervisor and I can tell you we had wheels run off occasionally even when we did everything right. We also used plastic pointers on the wheel nuts called wheel checks that where installed on the nuts after torqueing them that gave a visual indicator a nut had worked loose. We also were required to bring every unit back in the shop the next day and retorque ANY/ALL wheels that had been disturbed the previous day. Brake work or tire replacement and so on. Yet there were still wheels that came off. I saw pictures of dual wheels that came loose and came off trucks that hit cars traveling down the road, that hit houses and went through walls.

Things are much more complicated now a day than they use to be in years gone by. More vehicles on the roads, more lawyers, more "professionals" working on everything that are not properly trained often enough, or they are properly trained and for whatever reason don't do the work properly. A great deal of this is CYA, but if you have saw ONE time the consequences of failure it is the best preventative measure left that everyone can do.

Sorry about long post

[Art Mann]

Here is one real world experience. I bought a travel trailer 2 years ago. It has aluminum wheels. The technician who set up the trailer for towing told me he torqued the nuts to spec. but advised me to check them again when i got home (125 miles). I did check them and a few of them required maybe 1/12 turn to snug them to trip the clicker. Apparently, he was aware of other instances where the wheels loosened themselves. I have checked them just recently and they are fine.

[David Ragan]

All this talk about torquing reminds me....I met a fellow who is a superb engineer. Does aftermarket work and analysis of top notch NASCAR engines here. Puts the engine up on a stand in the lab, runs tests, looks @ the oil filter under a microscope, etc, Really cool stuff.

We were talking, and he tells me that when you get down into such fine tuned area as the engines he analyzes, that for torquing, since you also have the lubricants to consider, and the force/friction of the flange/bolt head against the block/whatever, that what they actually measure is the amount that the bolt stretches. I had no idea.

[Mike Lassiter]

All this talk about torquing reminds me....I met a fellow who is a superb engineer. Does aftermarket work and analysis of top notch NASCAR engines here. Puts the engine up on a stand in the lab, runs tests, looks @ the oil filter under a microscope, etc, Really cool stuff.

We were talking, and he tells me that when you get down into such fine tuned area as the engines he analyzes, that for torquing, since you also have the lubricants to consider, and the force/friction of the flange/bolt head against the block/whatever, that what they actually measure is the amount that the bolt stretches. I had no idea.

yea, they've done that for years. Automobiles use torque to yield head bolts (have for decades) as they claim more even torque based on stretching the bolts slightly (designed that way) and they are used once, when you replace the head gasket again you have to replace the bolts as well. Been a few years since I worked on anything automotive but you use to be able to buy a head gasket with bolts or without. It never made much sense to me to be able to get one without the bolts as they had to be replaced as the old ones would no longer provide the correct clamping force again. Perhaps it was a way to get repeat sales from people that didn't know or couldn't afford the bolts. The chances of failure without replacing the bolts was very high.

[Ole Anderson]

I use the rattle gun to run the nuts down, then a torque wrench to finish it off. It is very enlightening how easy it is to over torque with a gun. Just a couple of bangs after they are seated can over torque them. Before the torque wrench, I used to use the gun until it seemed they were tight. Explains why they were so hard to get the nuts off without the gun. Wow, 110 on a Mini, yet 94 on my large SUV.

If you can use a hand saw in the shop you can use a torque wrench. Much easier than making a trip back to have them checked. Get a digital clicker. No need to spend several hundred on a Snap-On, even the ones from HF are very accurate, within a few percent. I have a 3/8" and a 1/2" Digi-Torque Craftsman. And when you are done, release the pressure on the wrench.

[Andrew Jordan]

My cousin had a wheel fall off...his dad (a mechanic) had changed the wheels two months prior...he didn't use a torque wrench.

I always retorque my wheels. Torque specs are set by the manufacturer - so if it's hard to remove, it's supposed to be.

[Jeff Monson]

When I worked on automobiles (moved on the semi trucks and so forth) if you EVER called Bendix or Wagner brake helpline for tech assistance one of if not the first question they always ask was "did you TORQUE the wheel nuts?" Argument for uniform clamping between the wheel (rim) and hub minimizes warping of the rotor.

I agree Mike, a floating rotor will be affected by the torque of the wheel nut. An improperly torqued wheel can cause rotor warp age. It can also cause a wheel to come loose. A properly torqued wheel in the passenger car and truck world should not come loose. If you see technicians in a shop putting wheels on without the PROPER torque stick or manually torqueing the wheel nuts....then you can expect a problem. One wheel nut at 175lbs, one nut at 90lbs one nut at 125lbs, yes that is a recipe for a loose wheel or a warped rotor. Just my .02

[Mike Lassiter]

I agree Mike, a floating rotor will be affected by the torque of the wheel nut. An improperly torqued wheel can cause rotor warp age. It can also cause a wheel to come loose. A properly torqued wheel in the passenger car and truck world should not come loose. If you see technicians in a shop putting wheels on without the PROPER torque stick or manually torqueing the wheel nuts....then you can expect a problem. One wheel nut at 175lbs, one nut at 90lbs one nut at 125lbs, yes that is a recipe for a loose wheel or a warped rotor. Just my .02

While at Waste Management there where some studies done on putting truck wheels on with a 1 inch impact wrench. As you stated the torque was all over the place. We were told in a class that the BEST variation was 200 foot pounds difference between the nuts (recommended torque of 450 ft. lbs.) using a impact that can do 1600 - 2000 ft. lbs. We had a torque stick for the truck wheels, but you already have a extended anvil on the impact and then add another maybe 18 inches to that it would make the gun very nose heavy - and often the torque stick would fall off when you removed it from a nut because the impact would wear the female square drive and be loose enough that the gun would pull out of the stick. So we zipped them up snug with the impact and then torqued them by hand.

It was really aggravating doing the next day retorque because we used the plastic wheel checks on the nuts - you had to pull them off to check the torque. 10 on every wheel! If you put brakes on (what we called a 4 wheel brake job was the 4 drive axle brakes on the rear axles) so you had to remove 40 wheel checks then go thru the process of torqueing 40 wheel nuts and then put the plastic wheel checks back on the nuts. I was rare to actually see any of the 40 nuts that would tighten ANY, but every now and then you would and at least on that truck it didn't feel like a lot of work for nothing.