custom cut letters...mounting issues

[chris fox]

I have a small side business designing and fabricating custom signage(interiors only). Pretty much stumbled on this and its been slowly taking off.
I am trying to find better methods of installing floating letters. Currently I mount custom fabricated letteres using epoxy and 1:1 template. Installers are complaining that their messy, pitch can be off or there not level. Many of these installers are building handymen etc. which dont do tedious work. I dont carry any liabilty insurance I try and stay away from mounting all together so this is a problem.

Is there a method for mounting indiviudual smaller pieces - specifically letters? Weather there are mounted directly to a wall surface or floated/suspended out 1"?
VHB tape? Tack pin into sheetrock? mounted carrier?
I know i can precut letters but I am limited ot size or font or both - plus I can have them laser or water cut and finished cheaper.

With the talented group of people on this site I am assuming there is a better way of fabricating/mounting these?

Chris

The question: I have 2" custom letters that need to be mounted to the wall.

[Joe Pelonio]

I do a lot of that, in fact another job to install Wednesday.

Do you have a plotter or laser?

For smaller letters I will run the same job on the laser with card stock, with all the letters lined up so that you cannot install crooked, just center and level the pattern, tape to the wall and insert the letters. Most of the time I'll apply double sided tape to the back of the acrylic before I laser cut the letters.

I make a mounting tape with the plotter for larger letters/logos. I replace the knife with a pen and draw the letters from the same file used to make them, then cut it so that I have only the bottom 1nch or so. Level and tape that to the wall, and use it as a guide.

You can also do this by hand, tape a strip of heavy paper to a table, set the letters in position until they look right, trace the bottoms.

To suspend them it depends on the mounting method. For double sided tape I will laser cut small circles of acrylic with double sided tape on one side and glue 3-4 to the back of each letter. Just have to be small enough to not be seen. VHB works well on interior walls, but so does "banner tape" and it costs a lot less.

For heavy letters you need to tap the back and insert screw-in studs. You can cut metal or acrylic tubing to act as spacers. You will need to make a pattern with the studs marked for drilling. The easiest way is to line up the letters on paper, trace them, then hold each letter exactly on it's traced line while poking into the threaded holes on the back with a sharp object.
Then make an x crossing at the hole for better visibility when drilling.

I have also used a torch to heat brads or push pins (head cut off) to go into the backs of acrylic letters for drywall, they go in nicely when red hot. Then if a letter is crooked, simply remove it and try again.

These were ordered by one of my wholesale customers from Gemini, includes the aluminum letters, studs, spacers and mounting pattern.
If you can provide the same level of preparation at a better price you should get a lot of business.

[Joe Pelonio]

On this subject, I just got another installation that they want done this week. It's for 12" letters, 3/4" cast aluminum stud mount in brick 15' up.

The forecast is for rain through the weekend, so unless someone has an idea of how to stick a paper pattern onto wet brick it will have to wait. My only thought is two people on ladders hold it level while I hammer drill 3-4 of the stud holes, on the ends and middle, and insert studs or screws to hold it while I drill the rest. Even that won't work if it's raining hard, since the pattern will disintegrate.

[Doug Bergstrom]

Joe
I have had to do a similar project before and spent a while scratching my head. We decided to tarp the area where the sign was going to keep the rain / snow off of us while we were working on drilling the holes for the letters. It set up quick and worked great.

[Joe Pelonio]

That would work here but with no overhang, to keep it dry for the pattern to be taped up, one would have to tarp it in advance, and it's over an hour away. The latest forecast is for rain Saturday but dry Sunday so we may
change it to then. I think I'll bring an air compressor too, so I can blow off any water and also the dust in the holes.

[Doug Bergstrom]

A dust buster works great with the holes as well. We have one we use for our interior jobs. Works great.

[Joe Pelonio]

Turned out that rain held off the whole time, threatened only. Took about 5 hours to do the two sets. Gave the hammer drill a good workout and myself a better one. Maybe next time I'll remember the camera and not have a bad little phone pic.

[Stephen Beckham]

Chris - along the lines of Joe's first suggestion with the card stock, that requires you to still hold your mouth just right.

I take it the next 'neanderthal-step' up and cut out of cardbord. Blue tape it in place, then I can't miss - the letters have to fit in the holes...

Along the lines of actual attachements, I tried magnets once, but got in trouble because of office high-jinks gave up the offering of changing the spelling of names or twisting a letter to drive the OCD types nuts... Last couple was double stick tape from JDS and haven't had complaints...

[chris fox]

thanks for the input.
I think in my case, I will have my laser vendor cut out a reversed template out of cardboard/card stock. He can easily do this with the same Illustrator/DXF file I give to my water jet vendor. With a clean bottom edge a level can be use and a the installer can mark off the floor to this template.

As far as mounting letters, I have been using 2 part epoxy which is really strong and really messy. especialy for small aluminum letters that are 2" tall. I was thinking of drilling/countersinking shallow divots on the back side of the letters(i.e. two areas per letter). Then using caulk adhesive from a tube where the installer can drop in small amounts of caulk into the divots.

Chris

[Keith Outten]

If I am confused enlighten me

When I have to mount letters on a wall I plot the sign on paper. I make sure that I include center marks on the drawing so that when I tape the paper template to the wall I can center it and level it from the marks.

I normally drill holes in the back of each letter then transfer the hole locations to the paper template, you can also locate the holes on the template then transfer them to the letters if you like. Once the paper template is taped to the wall I use an awl to punch through the paper into the wall surface, this gives me the location to drill holes that match the studs or dowels on the back of my letters. I remove the paper template before drilling.

This procedure works perfectly every time and maintains the alignment and letter spacing without any measuring or eyeballing.
.

[Joe Pelonio]

If I am confused enlighten me

When I have to mount letters on a wall I plot the sign on paper. I make sure that I include center marks on the drawing so that when I tape the paper template to the wall I can center it and level it from the marks.

I normally drill holes in the back of each letter then transfer the hole locations to the paper template, you can also locate the holes on the template then transfer them to the letters if you like. Once the paper template is taped to the wall I use an awl to punch through the paper into the wall surface, this gives me the location to drill holes that match the studs or dowels on the back of my letters. I remove the paper template before drilling.

This procedure works perfectly every time and maintains the alignment and letter spacing without any measuring or eyeballing.
.

I do the same, in fact 3 such jobs last week, but I don't think he has a plotter. Still, you can do the same by tracing the letters on paper, but then you have to hand space and align them.

[Keith Outten]

At CNU we have a drafting plotter, in my shop I use my vinyl cutter to make paper install templates. If I didn't have my own means of making install templates I would visit my local copy center, they usually have large plotters or printers that use roll paper that can make templates.

I wonder if there is still fanfold paper that could be used with the printers we use today, these used be everywhere and everyone had a print program that would make banners.
.

[Joe Pelonio]

I wonder if there is still fanfold paper that could be used with the printers we use today, these used be everywhere and everyone had a print program that would make banners.
.

I have an old Star dot matrix on a shelf somewhere here. Staples etc. still sell the paper, I would think it would be harder to find the ribbons and maybe drivers for XP/vista.

Edit: I just did some checking, and they still make the impact printers. I saw HP and Epson both have them, but they cost a lot more than they used to.

[chris fox]

I have access to a plotter but I dont/or havent added studs to the bakc of custom letters. I notice there are sources that provide letters with studs but the fonts are limited and/or the letters are pretty expensive compared to what I can have them made.

If I add my own studs, i.e. tap the back of the letters I still have to align letters to the printout/plot to punch marks in the back of letters - another step, alignment and paper cutting out letters.