So who fixes large power tools if the manufacturer won't?

[Brian Holcombe]

You may start to notice that a lot of solo craftsmen, or shops with a handful of people, often rapidly move from typical grade machinery to very heavy duty machinery once they become busy enough that constant maintenance of sheetmetal or light casting machines is too time consuming. One of the reasons for that move is that the really heavy stuff, especially before the age of electronic everything, does not come out of adjustment and doesn't break. They run for a very long time with minimal maintenance outside of normal oiling.

Compare that to modern machinery commonplace in their 'classical' lines, which is constantly wearing out and needing maintenance.

It would turn out that the modern interpretation of 'overbuilt' is actually properly built and the light stuff common everywhere now is much undersized for professional work.

[Edward Weber]

You may start to notice that a lot of solo craftsmen, or shops with a handful of people, often rapidly move from typical grade machinery to very heavy duty machinery once they become busy enough that constant maintenance of sheetmetal or light casting machines is too time consuming. One of the reasons for that move is that the really heavy stuff, especially before the age of electronic everything, does not come out of adjustment and doesn't break. They run for a very long time with minimal maintenance outside of normal oiling.

Compare that to modern machinery commonplace in their 'classical' lines, which is constantly wearing out and needing maintenance.

It would turn out that the modern interpretation of 'overbuilt' is actually properly built and the light stuff common everywhere now is much undersized for professional work.

The tools you're referring to were designed and built to be maintained. Many newer tools, regardless of the claims, are simply designed/built to replace parts, plug and pray.
Why grease bearings when you can just replace them? Why have a heavy cast iron base (which dampens destructive vibrations) when a light weight welded steel box will hold that tool just fine
I won't even go into tearing down half a machine to replace a normal wear item, makes perfect sense.

[Mark Hennebury]

1950 2184 lb, 30" Thomas Robinson bandsaw.
1950's 5,500 lb, Dean smith and Grace lathe in the background.

The first two photos are my bandsaw, the last photo is of the lower wheel spindle out of my brothers bandsaw, he stripped his down and repainted it.
I have a few machines that are 70 years old and still going, they were built in a different time, with a different mindset.


SAM_6138.jpgSAM_6139.jpg LA Robinson (16).jpg

[Steve Demuth]

The tools you're referring to were designed and built to be maintained. Many newer tools, regardless of the claims, are simply designed/built to replace parts, plug and pray.
Why grease bearings when you can just replace them? Why have a heavy cast iron base (which dampens destructive vibrations) when a light weight welded steel box will hold that tool just fine
I won't even go into tearing down half a machine to replace a normal wear item, makes perfect sense.

Not sure I buy this as a general thesis. I've worked on a number of old machines that were beyond awkward to disassemble and repair. Just finished restoring a 60 year old belt sander that had parts stuffed in so tightly around the motor in cabinet that was welded on three sides, so only one side could be opened. Getting the motor adjusted properly for the two belts was nightmarish. And the bearings? Pretty much had to take the machine down to a bucket of individual parts to replace the bearings on the driven shaft.

[Alex Zeller]

A quick check on Powermatic's website for service centers list several in the Tampa area who do in house and field repairs. I suspect if you called them they would come out and work on Grizzly equipment for the standard hourly rate since a number of the tools sold by both brands come from the same factory.

[mike stenson]

I'll take sealed, non-serviceable, bearings and having to replace them once for every 8th time I'd have to clean and repack non-sealed bearings.

[Edward Weber]

Not sure I buy this as a general thesis. I've worked on a number of old machines that were beyond awkward to disassemble and repair. Just finished restoring a 60 year old belt sander that had parts stuffed in so tightly around the motor in cabinet that was welded on three sides, so only one side could be opened. Getting the motor adjusted properly for the two belts was nightmarish. And the bearings? Pretty much had to take the machine down to a bucket of individual parts to replace the bearings on the driven shaft.

I never meant to imply that ALL old tools are better in respect to ease of the maintenance. Not everything is better just because it's old.
Just IME, most are better thought out in terms of foreseeable maintenance than they seem to be today.
Even if you need to dismantle the whole thing, chances are everything will fit back together tha same as it did, not always the case with sheet metal machines.

[Jimmy Harris]

I never meant to imply that ALL old tools are better in respect to ease of the maintenance. Not everything is better just because it's old.
Just IME, most are better thought out in terms of foreseeable maintenance than they seem to be today.
Even if you need to dismantle the whole thing, chances are everything will fit back together tha same as it did, not always the case with sheet metal machines.

Of course, there is the possibility of the perception of older tools being better made because the ones that actually lasted this long were better made. And the ones that were junk back then were all thrown away. In seventy years, they might be making the same complaint, that tools "today" aren't made to last like tools from the 2020's.

[Brian Holcombe]

I’m writing in generalities, but referring mainly to machinery built for industry. The stuff produced by manufacturers like Northfeild, Porter, Yates, Whitney, Wadkin, Robinson, Martin, Marunaka, etc. Very heavy, built to last and be maintained.

I see the comparison first hand with shops near me who have equipment from the typical hobby shop places. Once you start using it all the time, it breaks and comes out of adjustment.

I don’t think this has anything to do with romanticizing a time period, it’s from experience of using this equipment and noticing.

Light gauge weldments are cheaper to build and ship, they look cool and modern, but the resulting machine is louder, flimsier and does not hold up as well.

[Edward Weber]

I’m writing in generalities, but referring mainly to machinery built for industry. The stuff produced by manufacturers like Northfeild, Porter, Yates, Whitney, Wadkin, Robinson, Martin, Marunaka, etc. Very heavy, built to last and be maintained.

I see the comparison first hand with shops near me who have equipment from the typical hobby shop places. Once you start using it all the time, it breaks and comes out of adjustment.

I don’t think this has anything to do with romanticizing a time period, it’s from experience of using this equipment and noticing.

Light gauge weldments are cheaper to build and ship, they look cool and modern, but the resulting machine is louder, flimsier and does not hold up as well.

Exactly what I was trying to say.
I've seen newer tools quit supporting and offering parts after a very short time, rendering the machine useless. It seems we have to have a new model every five years, instead of a model that stands up for twenty.

I wish the OP luck in his search for an machine mechanic that suits his needs.

[mike stenson]

Exactly what I was trying to say.
It seems we have to have a new model every five years, instead of a model that stands up for twenty.

I can tell people who don't work in a manufacturing, or product development, industry.

Nothing to sell, and you got no company. This isn't planned obsolescence, it's just capitalism.

[Mark Hennebury]

planned obsolescence, capitalism.

Same thing!

[Jerry Bruette]

I can tell people who don't work in a manufacturing, or product development, industry.

Nothing to sell, and you got no company. This isn't planned obsolescence, it's just capitalism.

I believe that planned obsolescence was created by capitalists so they could keep making profits instead of a quality product that consumers would prefer. Why do you think the automotive industry changes body styles every year? The new bodies aren't better, just something for consumers to chase.

[Brian Holcombe]

No, I suspect they’re trying to meet a price point all while packing in technology that is desired at the sacrifice of durability in the long run to meet that price point in the typical situation. This makes a machine more prone to failure but satisfies the market at a given price point.

Some companies advance the technology incorporated in the item while maintaining the highest durability and heft, those companies are certainly fewer and they offer their work a price point beyond the typical consumer. They’re also typically smaller companies which likely weight the cost of foundational change differently.

I can point to Omga and Hofmann as two top of mind examples. I think every manufacturing company out there weights the value of their reputation against the temptation to make a perpetual revenue stream in the knowledge that it does not arrive without obvious cost of people choosing to abandon their product.

[Edward Weber]

I can tell people who don't work in a manufacturing, or product development, industry.

Nothing to sell, and you got no company. This isn't planned obsolescence, it's just capitalism.

Two schools of thought here.
1. Sell to the people you can, ONE good, quality product every 20 years or so.
2. Sell to as many people as you can, a lower quality product at a discounted price, every couple of years.

1. creates loyal customers, who will often buy more from that company and stay loyal to them over the years.
2. creates captive customers, who will just buy the same item every new cycle but have no loyalty and can often stray to a competing brand.

I believe (naively) that products should sell themselves, not need to be sold.
I'm under no delusions of how manufacturing works, you're talking about marketing and product placement.

There is a planned obsolescence inherent in the design, based on lots of statistics gathered over the years.
If people don't hold on to their machines for 20 years, why should we make them last 30?

Most tools are built for their intended market, hobbyist tools don't need to be as robust since they won't be used for as many hours as a professional level machine. Unfortunately, there is a large price gap in between the two.

Many older machines were arguably (over-built), lasting far beyond the normal serviceable life. Today's machines are not built that way, they often meet expectations but rarely exceed them.

JMHO