Transition to brushing WB

[Kent A Bathurst]

I got to be pretty good at brushing on OB finishes, but it did take a long learning curve, and trials of different brushes to get there. Our relocate/downsize to a condo canceled the VOC options, and nuked any chance to start with spraying.

Had a lot of difficulty making the transition to brushing WB. GF Endurovar and Hi-Perf both were problematic with brush strokes. Could not get around the problem, even trying different foam applicators and different brushes. Got better, but still not there. Got a lot of good assistance in various threads here, but I couldn't make it happen.

And so - Based on comments in another thread here, I changed products again - sampled both Minwax Oil-Modified and Polycrylic on the underside of a cherry table top. Switched brushes, again, to Purdy Nylox [clear improvement - for me - over Purdy Syntox and the Lee Valley nylon bristle].

And - added 3%-4% by volume of GF Enduro Extender [left over from my earlier dances with the GF finishes]

I went with the Polycrylic on the good side. I'm getting zero residual brush strokes on the cured finish. I also don't have to worry about finishing the underside - plenty of coveraget by different products there.

I am confident that there are a lotta folks here that can do much better than I, but I finally got to a happy place. Thanks to all who answered my questions along the way.

[John TenEyck]

Good for you, Kent, to do the work to find a solution that works for you. What I found with the Minwax Oil Modified Poly is that you have to apply it very, very thinly, about 180 degrees from most OB varnishes. I use a foam brush and get zero brush marks.

John

[Kent A Bathurst]

Thx John

Your comments in some other thread led me to the oil-mod poly and the polycrylic so grateful there

I’ll give the foam brushes a test drive on those two, but they kinda freak me out. Must need an incantation and incense

Regards

[roger wiegand]

I found that the Grammercy brushes for waterborne finishes made a huge difference in my ability to use these finishes (mostly Emtech products for me, including some of the "spray only" versions for small things). Pricey, but way better than any other brush I've ever used. Same kind of experience as switching to their natural bristle brush for shellac, which is beyond amazing. I've been using my shellac brush several times a week for the last four years and it still seems good as new, so their brushes can last a good long time. Yes, at those prices you need to wash it out rather than throw it away!

I've had essentially no success with foam brushes of any sort with any finish, so I've quit trying to use them.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Roger - note in my opening sentence "trials of different brushes" for OB. Those are the Grammercy OB set. Huge improvement over everything else. $$$$ - but you get what you pay for.

I have a 1" and 3" Nylox, went looking for a 2" Grammercy - as your link shows, out of stock. I contacted them. They "needed to switch suppliers" whatever that means. The replacement source is "getting close" but not there yet.

I'm with you - had there been a 2", I'd have it - no questions asked. My current prohect is a 40" x 40" table top, so the 3" is the correct size. The Nylox is doing fine, so no need to get another, but rather than get a 2" Nylox, I'll wait for a bit on Grammercy.

[John TenEyck]

Kent, have you looked into Rubio Monocoat or Osmo Polyox? No brush required; in fact, nothing more than a little plastic spreader and white non-woven pad. Nothing is easier to apply. Neither has much odor. They are not traditional film finishes but both are very durable, and stupid simple to repair if needed.

John

[Kent A Bathurst]

John - nope. I only became aware of these products in the last couple years ( sidelined for reasons outside my control). I had been assuming there would be the standard odors from oil-based finishes. Not the case, eh? I’ll have to fire up my brain’s ponder cells

[John TenEyck]

John - nope. I only became aware of these products in the last couple years ( sidelined for reasons outside my control). I had been assuming there would be the standard odors from oil-based finishes. Not the case, eh? I’ll have to fire up my brain’s ponder cells

RM, in particular, has almost no odor and is VOC free. It's nothing like traditional wipe on varnishes, in any way. Osmo PolyOx has some VOC, but the odor is minimal to me.

John

[Rob Sack]

In regards to foam brushes, they vary in quality. The big box stores carry brushes with a more open foam and they do not work as well as the ones I get from commercial supply houses. These brushes seem to have foam that is considerably denser and they leave a much better finish. They also hold more finish.

[Kent A Bathurst]

RM, in particular, has almost no odor and is VOC free. It's nothing like traditional wipe on varnishes, in any way.
John

OK - something is simply not clicking for me. I don't "get it" on the RM info I read.

Is it one part? Two parts? What is Part A only? What is 2C? When-where-why-how. I'm generally pretty clever, but not here.

Can I fill grain with, say, AquaCoat first? Use Rennaissance wax after? Or maybe this is a "me only" type of finish.

Ima get me a sample/20ml size and drive it around the block, but I'd prefer to be less ignorant first.

Thanks

[Jim Becker]

Kent, the primary Rubio Monocoat is two part; there's the finish (2C or the new higher sheen version) and there's a catalyst part B that you put a very small amount in to help it cure much faster. The mix isn't critical, either. RM and Osmo Polyx are about the easiest finishes that you can find for hand-application. If you want to try it out, you can buy the smallest size off Amazon in the color you want to try (Natural or one of the many with tinting) for about thirty bucks and it will cover a LOT of ground because the actual application is so sparing for a coat. I'm not normally a fan of oil based finishes (other than BLO on decorative items) and have been very enamored with the results I got with RM on two pieces I made for our older daughter recently. I mostly use waterborne finishes and spray them, just to level set, and primarily Target Coatings products.

[John TenEyck]

Kent, you can only use RM's stains underneath it. No filler of any kind. No need for wax afterwards; in fact, it would get in the way if repair is needed. So, yes, it's a "me only" type finish. Try it. You'll more than like it, especially on walnut and other dark woods. This was done with RM Pure, one coat:




And this piece was done with Osmo PolyOx, two coats.





John

[roger wiegand]

My first use of RM was on our curly maple kitchen island, which gets seriously used and abused (though not cut directly on)-- lots of water, foods that stain, and black iron stains from my pans and cleaver. 18 months in it's holding up very well, way better than the pure tung oil I'd used in previous refinishings. It seems to stain less and I'm able to get most of the stains out (eg with Bartender's Friend on the iron, a bleach-containing cleanser for the food stains) more successfully. Not bulletproof, but way more robust than I might have expected. I'm impressed. Two coats on the 42 x 108" surface used well less than a half-pint can of finish, so while the initial price was shocking it really does go a long way.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Uncle

Got some Oil plus A ordered, and also 2C which includes B. Small amounts so I can test things out. I have plenty of material - air dried walnut, cherry, curly cherry, QSWO, HM, curly soft maple........surprising how much stuff you can get in a condo bedroom/shop when you "have to".

Meanwhile. the Polycrylic top is at rest for a few weeks before rubbing out.

PLUS - I'd never heard of stop-loss bags until a recent thread here. I've transferred all my partial cans/mason jars, and washed/reclaimed a couple hundred marbles. What am I supposed to do with those marbles? That's on you fellers.

[John TenEyck]

Kent, you can rub out the Polycrylic in 7 days, and probably after only a day or two. I'm using some Minwax Oil Modified Poly, making samples for a customer so time is in short supply, and apply 3 coats and rub them out the same day! Just 0000 steel wool w/o lube. Amazing how fast that stuff gets an initial cure.

Curing for a few weeks is for OB finishes, but even those I have rubbed out after 10 days w/o issue. Where the curing really impacts behavior is in chemical resistance. 3 weeks makes a major difference over 7 days, even for WB products.

We're getting old. We can't afford to wait. Get on with it!

John