Are your tools dangerous?

[Edward Weber]

Now that I think we've gotten to the point where everything is dangerous, I guess nothing is.

You can look up zipper injuries yourself, I did and the numbers are just ridiculous.
Pay attention to what you're doing, be safe.

I'll add, after the last couple of posts, the shop is sounding not so dangerous after all

[Michael Burnside]

Please explain
Auto standards of some type comparing toilets and tablesaws?


And Ive been accused of using false equivalencies in this thread (not by you)

All I can say is be safe on the toilet, I guess
or at least meet some automotive safety standard or something

LOL, it was more in gest from a high-level. But....if all injuries are serious, let's just say they're the same at 30k injuries. Given we have 250 million toilets (used by everyone, including children) vs. 10 million tablesaws (used by a fewer population set) the injury per million is 25 times higher with a tablesaw even completely and utterly ignoring use models, exposure and controllability models. In summary, be careful in the shop and the bathroom!

[Cary Falk]

I think I have caused myself more harm with a box knife than any of my large tools. LOL

[Ron Citerone]

I think I have caused myself more harm with a box knife than any of my large tools. LOL

My Father in Law worked for a fiberglass fabrictor/repair company. They did a lot of work for a major chemical company who did not allow box knives in their factories.

[Ray Selinger]

The tool I've given me the most bites is bench grinder, because I'm more careless with it. I've used a DeWalt for over 60 years and am still very careful around it. It's scary. For the old carpenters I worked with that were missing parts of their fingers, it was the jointer .

[Edward Weber]

Since I'm the only one that doesn't think his machines are inherently dangerous, I'll ask this.
There are 30-400k TS injuries per year, how many liability lawsuits come from those injuries?
A guess would be a heck of a lot less than 30,000, since typically you need to prove that the tools design, manufacturing or marketing was st fault.
If the tool isn't at fault, it must be the operators actions that are the dangerous part of the equation, regardless of the reason.

For me, using tools is like dealing with nature, it's neither for you or against you, it's simply intolerant of mistakes.

Be safe everyone

[Thomas Pender]

Am now recovering from an injury to my right hand caused by an infection of unknown origin. Caused me to spike a white blood cell count of 21,600 - close to general sepsis according to my MD son. Resulted in emergency surgery so I am now doing physical therapy and anxious to get back to woodworking. Physical therapist (a hand expert) told me most common reason for hand PT are table saw accidents, followed by dog bites. Bottom line is our tools can be dangerous, but sometimes we do not even know what dangerous is. I agree that machines are intolerant of mistakes, but offer that Staph infections are even less tolerant.

[John C Cox]

One of the most important ideas they teach us in the safety training at work is to trigger at the danger. People recognize that a table saw with it's spinning blade is dangerous. People often do not trigger any existence of danger from standing on a chair or climbing onto a counter top. Simply looking at the statistics for accidental deaths tells the story. Things like drowning, falling, and choking at your own house are very high on the list where other, commonly touted "Dangers" (for example, being killed by shark bites or alligators) barely even makes the decimal trash on the bottom of the list.

[Tom Trees]

It's a bit silly to be making these comparisons like toilets, chairs and whatever else,
when tablesaws sold in Europe are fundamentality different, and thereby much safer when those features are utilized,
which in turn requires a much different approach to most operations, compared to the in-complete designs like the Unisaw's and similar.

There's no argument about that in Europe, whilst in the USA, the common reoccurring theme being folks trying to defend
their unsafe tablesaws, simply because they're either too lazy to read how things are done, as per the links I've given,
or indeed too busy/short sighted/masochistic/ignorant to make their machines a whole lot safer, like they should be.

This is very evident seeing as there's a market for the Sawstop in the USA, compared to the UK, where there's little value placed on such technology
as safe working practice using properly equipped tablesaws being the norm.

In general, the only folks who get injured across the pond from you folks, usually are not complying with the rules,
as they likely have been too ignorant to learn how to do things properly, likely because they don't know what they don't know,
and copied some dangerous stuff they seen on youtube.

For example...the short "shoe" designs of pushsticks being a common thing to see from newbies, who think they're equipped to work safely!!!
and things are only getting worse, as the "consumer machine" that is the internet, tailored to favour any auld hay that's coming from unscrupulous sellers and sponsored utoobers alike,
With the main aim being for folks to have terrible accidents, and as such push the agenda that is Sawstop TM.

Truly shameful carry on, and anyone attempting to pretend their in-complete Unisaw or the likes are no different to any other machine, are playing their part "in the game".

Regards
Tom

[Warren Lake]

Whats a short shoe. Shak wears a size 23. Oh sorry its only 22.

[Tom Trees]

Anything what puts your hand over the blade, for instance.... any/all examples, as seen from any youtuber selling pusher tools.

The minimum requirement for any pushers/push sticks/push blocks, are 450mm long in the UK, though that might not cut the mustard for blades over 12".

Tom

[Steve Demuth]

Since I'm the only one that doesn't think his machines are inherently dangerous, I'll ask this.
There are 30-400k TS injuries per year, how many liability lawsuits come from those injuries?
A guess would be a heck of a lot less than 30,000, since typically you need to prove that the tools design, manufacturing or marketing was st fault.
If the tool isn't at fault, it must be the operators actions that are the dangerous part of the equation, regardless of the reason.

For me, using tools is like dealing with nature, it's neither for you or against you, it's simply intolerant of mistakes.

Be safe everyone

The interesting thing is that we start with different premises (tools are / are not inherently dangerous), and reach the same conclusions. You think they are not - the the danger is attributable to improper use or other human mistakes, so it's important that we all be trained on and vigilant when using these tools. The "are dangerous" crowd says, these things are inherently dangerous, so it's really important that we all be trained on and vigilant when using these tools.

I don't sense much disagreement here at all.

Nature, by the way, is loaded with phenomenon and living things that are inherently dangerous. Having watched a tornado come through my place 20 some years ago, I can say with absolute certainty that it's just a matter of luck, and not not making mistakes, that my family came through uninjured. We did everything we should have in the situation, but if the twister had tracked 200ft further West, it would have reduced our house to matchsticks (instead of just laying waste to some standing trees, and removing shingles from the house).

[Tom Trees]

Training starts with a suitable machine, so perhaps if you've got some older American made machine,
you could mention where you got your fence extrusion from, as I've been looking for something up to spec.
Screenshot-2023-7-4 Safe Wood Machining by Roy Sutton.jpg

Cheers
Tom

[Jim Becker]

Nothing like a runaway saw blade...

https://6abc.com/watch-oregon-man-ha...lade/14593723/

[jim sauterer]

Doesn’t get any closer than that.