I’ve owned the Hammer B3 for 14 years, it works very well, it’s nice to have a sliding table, tilting spindle shaper (same as the F3)Originally Posted by Josh Baldwin
3Kw is plenty of power for a shaper of that size
Regards. Rod
Contributor
I’ve owned the Hammer B3 for 14 years, it works very well, it’s nice to have a sliding table, tilting spindle shaper (same as the F3)
3Kw is plenty of power for a shaper of that size
Regards. Rod
[OP]
Member
Great, thanks for the info Rod.
Ok good to know, I wasn't sure about the power compared to the others. Is there anything you feel limited by with the Hammer? I'm curious if you have an opinion of how your workflow/abilities might change if you had one of these massive 3 phase machines that some people are recommending. I do feel like they're correct that there are certainly benefits to the size/power of those shapers, but just wondering if you have any thoughts compared to the Hammer for example.
Also, any accessories you would recommend other than a good power feeder for the Hammer?
Contributor
3ph is great, It’s nice not to feel limited based on that. So the added cost/effort of getting some sort of phase conversion is helpful.
I have my 7hp Martin running on 1ph with a VFD.
The reason many machines have large motors is simple. Large motors do not need to work as hard to accomplish the same task, therefore they live longer. Yes, you can run 3ph to its limit, doing so, wears the motor out faster. So, plan accordingly.
Bumbling forward into the unknown.
Contributor
Hi, no a larger, more powerful shaper wouldn’t change my workflow..
I make everything from flooring to toys using the shaper, mostly furniture however.
I have a feeder, a safety bar kit for the fence opening and the tenon table/hood, as well as the curve guard for pattern shaping and sanding.
I also have a hold down clamp for end coping, tenons, bridle joints.
Below I’m grooving a rabbit toy, sanding a curved piece using a sanding drum and the curve guard, and making tenons.
Regards, Rod.
etc.IMG_2064.jpgIMG_1979.jpgIMG_0777.jpg
Contributor
I have a VFD to run my metal working milling machine, was only a couple hundred bucks. Is it not true that you loose some power when using a rotary phase converter?
Contributor
Some small notes from my own experience. I have a router table attached to the leftside of my Unisaw. It is indeed the quickest tool for smaller things and router bits are cheap. I had a Delta HD shaper, 3/4 spindle, but sold that when I bought my Felder 700 sliding saw and shaper (2001 vintage), there was no room for both. I'm just a hobby woodworker, BTW. I did no updating or maintainance on the Felder beyond careful leveling and hooking up dust collection. Not all machines need a teardown. It was 3 phase, so I purchased a rotary phase converter and wiried it up, but I'm comfortable with wiring, The RPC only drives the Felder: basicly it serves a single wall mounted outlet.
-- The change in power and the mass of the cutters (1 1/4 shaft, 4 HP) is impressive: a completely different experience than the Delta HD. I have a 125mm Whitehill combi-head, when I put the top bearing on for pattern work a) that first approach with a board makes my butt cheeks pucker and b) the smoothness of cut and finish is a whole nother world from pattern work on the router table.
-- After a about a year and a few projects I purchased a power feeder. I saw a statement that "a power feeder turns the most dangerous tool in the shop into one of the least dangerous" and think I believe it. I made an interior walnut door for our kitchen pantry and the finish and consistency on the long cuts was better than I ever got by hand. It was also a lot quicker, and far less fearsome.
-- Yes, the tooling is expensive.
-- This unit came with a router spindle and collet. It's too much bother to change out spindles to do a routing job, but it was very useful once. I needed to create 100 feet or so of walnut shoe molding, and was able to find a router bit of that profile but not a shaper cutter (maybe I didn't know where to look). With the power feeder run a board past the shaper, cut off the profile on the Unisaw, rinse and repeat.
Terry T.
Contributor
LOL. The $5000 budget is now up to $10,000.
Contributor
just trying to be helpful…
Member
Always funny how the budget can creep. In all honesty, the OP could get by with a used med duty machine for ~1-2k and save the rest for a feeder, nice tooling, etc but since the starting budget is where it is, it opened up the door to lots of other options. Lots of ways to accomplish his goal within the intended budget and it's always worth talking about all the options, imo.
Still waters run deep.
Contributor
I did warn him about the impending upsell!
I agree that making cope/stick cuts on a taiwanese shaper would be just fine. Similarly, he could make a homemade ring fence out of plywood for his pattern work. My big take away from this discussion is $5,000 will get you an adequate machine with basic tooling and a feeder, OR you should look to be around $8,000+ for a capable machine/tooling for covering almost all of your shaper bases. The fact is that most of us do not need to cover all of our shaper bases. Like i said before, i do not do tenon work on my shaper and i really have no intention of starting. And, as cool as i think euro window production is, i wont be doing that work anytime soon either. It means i dont need a machine capable of spinning 10"+ diameter stacked tooling.
The 3 phase cost and discussion is another topic entirely. I will say i only have two regrets with my current shop setup and those include; 1) not setting up a broad 3 phase converter early on(i run a few machines off separate VFDs), 2) not cutting in a double door to replace my single man door into the garage. I would have better and less expensive machines if i had easy 3 phase and a means of getting said tools through an opening greater than 32.75". As it stands, i spent more money acquiring smaller single phase tools. A third regret would be not upgrading my home service to 200amps a decade ago.
Member
I wouldn't consider not having a tilting type or not having a power feed and a slding table is extra useful too.
Member
You want easy micro adjustment in the fences.
If you were set on buying new, I would probably get the Hammer out of those three choices. It is built with European guarding and jigs in mind and Hammer offers a lot of additional accessories and guarding you can pick up down the line if you want. You may find the tilt more helpful than you can anticipate right now. As folks have said, for the same money you can get a higher quality and more capable machine on the used market, but you need to check or hope that everything runs true else you have issues to deal with. I regularly run into folks with new Taiwanese or Chinese machines that are not running true and cannot get cope and stick joinery really tight as a result. At least with the Hammer they're built to ISO specs and there is a dealer network you can turn to with a direct connection to the factory if needed.
If you fall in love with shapers and want to upgrade, the option may be available to have two. Keep this first one for lighter work (sticking) and use the higher one for heavier work.
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