Best Shaper Under $5000?

[Bill Dufour]

A static phase converter looses about 1/3 of the hp. A true vfd loses no power. A rotary may lose a few percent.
Bill D

[Patrick Kane]

I have a Felder 700 saw/shaper, and i think that is a perfectly adequate machine for what you are looking to do. I made a bunch of flooring and ceiling for my timberframe shed, cope/stick stuff, pattern cuts, and recreated some 100+ year custom mouldings for my uncle's home. I would use it more if it was a freestanding shaper, which is why i havent done much tenoning work on the shaper. It is a little easier to make tenons through other methods versus moving the saw arm guard, lifting the shaper hood in place, swapping DC etc. I think it is their 5.5hp unit with variable speed. Like others said, you can and will spend a lot on tooling. Even the most basic setup of some groovers and a euro block will set you back more than a grand. Add on a feeder, and i would either up your budget or look to the used market. If you go the latter route, you should absolutely find a good machine for your needs under budget. I love oversized and unnecessary machines, but i dont think you need a 9hp top of the line shaper for patterning and cabinet doors. I think Hammer/minimax would probably be fine, but a midrange SCM/Felder is your cry once/buy once option. That previously linked SAC machine is another decent example of what to look for.

One thing i would mention is i originally sold my router table thinking the shaper would replace it. I then had to buy another router table a year or two later. Some operations--typically the quick ones--are still better off on the router table. For example, i would do a quick double-side taped template on the router table, but would build a jig for the shaper. Similarly, a quick roundover on the router table is very simple versus more setup time on the shaper.

[Phillip Mitchell]

Hey Phillip I definitely should have clarified some of this stuff in the original post. I am not a full time cabinet maker or crown moulding maker.

My goal is to use the shaper like an upgraded router table. I'd like to be able to flush trim without having to take several passes with a router bit for example. I'd like to be able to make lock miters in one pass. I'd like to be able to use rails and stiles bits with cleaner results. I will not be making raised panel cabinet doors. I build furniture and the main thing I use the router table for is definitely flush trimming wood to templates.

I definitely appreciate the 3 phase/old school giant machinery crowd and what you're all looking for out of a machine. However, I have several good friends who have these "cheaper" machines and I've never heard any of them tell me they felt limited by them. That's not to say they're as good, I understand they're not as heavy duty. But I also do personally value "new/works out of the box" vs spending days setting up/dialing in/repairing older models. So while I do think I could be swayed into the 3 phase crowd, when I see these older machines listed from brands that don't even exist anymore and/or don't make parts available if repairs are needed, then that's where I can't personally make that leap.

Would you mind explaining to me what would suck about the fences on the Hammer or Laguna for example? I'm just trying to understand what I should be looking for out of a good fence.

Thanks for all the help!

Yeah, I understand where you’re coming from. Looking at the Hammer closer, it looks like it could be a good fit for you and certainly convenient. How much is it with 1 1/4” spindle and any sliding table accessories (crosscut fence with stops, etc) you might want?

Another used choice that comes to mind that’s similar is a Minimax / SCMI T40 or T50. Very similar machine to the Hammer above in terms of specs and capability, just a bit older. Often times tilting spindle and sliding table and somewhere around 3-5 hp motor and sometimes single phase.

I have obviously not used the fence personally on the Hammer and it may be great. I personally like a heavy cast iron fence and am mostly allergic to aluminum and plastic in my shop, but the Hammer may be great and strong enough. A fence with some type of dial-able or indexed micro adjust is very useful and worth quite a bit compared to not having that and it looks like there is a micro-adjust on the Hammer. Tilt spindle and sliding table can certainly come in handy is oddball situations (or if you do a lot of custom mill work) and are nice to have.

The Laguna and Oliver are Chaiwanese and over priced for what they are, IMO. I would be looking Grizzly instead if considering those or something like a used Powermatic 29 or similar and that will probably do everything you’d want unless you wanted to get into larger diameter / heavier tooling.

I tend to live by the motto of “Anything worth doing is worth overdoing”, so take my advice with a grain of salt. This may be why one of my shapers is 12 hp and weighs 1750#…I also would rather buy used industrial for pennies on the dollar compared to new hobby grade and spend a bit of time and $ when necessary to get it into service in my shop. I also have a whole shop phase converter and VFDs on a few machines and am set up for 3 phase at multiples voltages, so I tend to think a bit differently than most considering hobby / light professional grade machines.

The Hammer could work well for you and be convenient; I also know there are ways to get there for possibly half the price if going used but that may not be what you want to spend your time and energy on, which is a good thing to know going into all this.

Also, there will still be times when a router table is going to be the quickest and most cost effective solution for certain things…you will want to look into the cost for adding a router collet spindle to the Hammer as that could come in handy, but I wouldn’t toss your RT out if you are used to using it.

[Josh Baldwin]

Hey everyone thanks for all the help with this. I'm going to keep an eye out for a good used model and in the meantime speak with my Felder rep about getting the Hammer F3 at a discount. If it's the right price I'll probably go that direction.

[Josh Baldwin]

Yeah, I understand where you’re coming from. Looking at the Hammer closer, it looks like it could be a good fit for you and certainly convenient. How much is it with 1 1/4” spindle and any sliding table accessories (crosscut fence with stops, etc) you might want?

Another used choice that comes to mind that’s similar is a Minimax / SCMI T40 or T50. Very similar machine to the Hammer above in terms of specs and capability, just a bit older. Often times tilting spindle and sliding table and somewhere around 3-5 hp motor and sometimes single phase.

I have obviously not used the fence personally on the Hammer and it may be great. I personally like a heavy cast iron fence and am mostly allergic to aluminum and plastic in my shop, but the Hammer may be great and strong enough. A fence with some type of dial-able or indexed micro adjust is very useful and worth quite a bit compared to not having that and it looks like there is a micro-adjust on the Hammer. Tilt spindle and sliding table can certainly come in handy is oddball situations (or if you do a lot of custom mill work) and are nice to have.

The Laguna and Oliver are Chaiwanese and over priced for what they are, IMO. I would be looking Grizzly instead if considering those or something like a used Powermatic 29 or similar and that will probably do everything you’d want unless you wanted to get into larger diameter / heavier tooling.

I tend to live by the motto of “Anything worth doing is worth overdoing”, so take my advice with a grain of salt. This may be why one of my shapers is 12 hp and weighs 1750#…I also would rather buy used industrial for pennies on the dollar compared to new hobby grade and spend a bit of time and $ when necessary to get it into service in my shop. I also have a whole shop phase converter and VFDs on a few machines and am set up for 3 phase at multiples voltages, so I tend to think a bit differently than most considering hobby / light professional grade machines.

The Hammer could work well for you and be convenient; I also know there are ways to get there for possibly half the price if going used but that may not be what you want to spend your time and energy on, which is a good thing to know going into all this.

Also, there will still be times when a router table is going to be the quickest and most cost effective solution for certain things…you will want to look into the cost for adding a router collet spindle to the Hammer as that could come in handy, but I wouldn’t toss your RT out if you are used to using it.

Yea I definitely get that all the "american" companies are just made in china/taiwan. I only mentioned that Oliver unit because it's the same specs as the Grizzly for about 30% less. But I think I'm going to go with the Hammer unit if I can get a good price. I'm hoping for about $6000 shipped including a power feeder and a few accessories. One of those accessories is a swappable router spindle/collet. I don't know how hard it is to change it out, but in the video at least it looks quite simple. I definitely don't have room for this and the router table, so it's kind of an all or nothing situation. I still have a Festool OF 1400 and a Dewalt small router though.

I really do wish I was that guy who can look at older machines and take them apart and calibrate them, etc. But I didn't grow up around any of this stuff. I had never used a saw or any tool until about 3 years ago then I just kind of became obsessed, ha. But every single time I have to repair machinery I realize how much I hate it and how bad I am at it.

I definitely appreciate all the advice from everyone and it's always helpful hearing a variety of opinions on these things. I think what maybe pushed me over the edge with the Hammer is the few people on here that have mentioned how great they've been and I found some online reviews also saying how rock solid they are. I also have 2 other Felder machines, so I'm kind of slightly in their camp already.

[John Pendery]

Josh, check this one out:

https://woodweb.com/exchanges/machin...ts/545794.html

Edited to say if this machine comes with even a little bit of tooling you now have no choice but to get a rotary phase converter haha. Right in your neck of the woods!

[Josh Baldwin]

Josh, check this one out:

https://woodweb.com/exchanges/machin...ts/545794.html

Edited to say if this machine comes with even a little bit of tooling you now have no choice but to get a rotary phase converter haha. Right in your neck of the woods!

That does loo like a serious machine. I'll definitely look into it and see if I can make it work. Thanks for the heads up.

[John Pendery]

That does loo like a serious machine. I'll definitely look into it and see if I can make it work. Thanks for the heads up.

Sure thing. That Aigner fence alone is a game changer.

[Josh Baldwin]

Sure thing. That Aigner fence alone is a game changer.

What is that exactly? Is that standard on a machine like this or an aftermarket/SCM option?

[Jared Sankovich]

What is that exactly? Is that standard on a machine like this or an aftermarket/SCM option?

Ita a aftermarket option.

https://www.felder-group.com/en-us/s...-fence-sp91601

[John Pendery]

What is that exactly? Is that standard on a machine like this or an aftermarket/SCM option?

It allows you to bridge the gap that would otherwise be in between the in-feed and out-feed fences with the “fingers” and have a closed continuous fence during a lot of operations. It’s a very nice feature.

IMG_5497.jpg

[Joe Calhoon]

That SCM shaper is a good deal. Far better than any others discussed, new or used. It even has a tenoning hood for running cutters larger than 250mm.
Phase converters are easy. I ran my whole shop for many years with a home made rotary converter before getting 3 phase from the utility.
Also looks like it has a pinned fence with mechanical digital readout. A very desirable option especially if using European tooling.
most new shapers in the 5000 dollar range have marginal fences.

[Albert Lee]

Bought this SCM shaper for $900, with feeder! weight is 800kg/1700lbs.

T11O.jpg

[Phillip Mitchell]

Yeah, now I'm looking at the SCM! Looks like an ideal machine in a lot of ways including price.

[Terry Therneau]

Some small notes from my own experience. I have a router table attached to the leftside of my Unisaw. It is indeed the quickest tool for smaller things and router bits are cheap. I had a Delta HD shaper, 3/4 spindle, but sold that when I bought my Felder 700 sliding saw and shaper (2001 vintage), there was no room for both. I'm just a hobby woodworker, BTW. I did no updating or maintainance on the Felder beyond careful leveling and hooking up dust collection. Not all machines need a teardown. It was 3 phase, so I purchased a rotary phase converter and wiried it up, but I'm comfortable with wiring, The RPC only drives the Felder: basicly it serves a single wall mounted outlet.
-- The change in power and the mass of the cutters (1 1/4 shaft, 4 HP) is impressive: a completely different experience than the Delta HD. I have a 125mm Whitehill combi-head, when I put the top bearing on for pattern work a) that first approach with a board makes my butt cheeks pucker and b) the smoothness of cut and finish is a whole nother world from pattern work on the router table.
-- After a about a year and a few projects I purchased a power feeder. I saw a statement that "a power feeder turns the most dangerous tool in the shop into one of the least dangerous" and think I believe it. I made an interior walnut door for our kitchen pantry and the finish and consistency on the long cuts was better than I ever got by hand. It was also a lot quicker, and far less fearsome.
-- Yes, the tooling is expensive.
-- This unit came with a router spindle and collet. It's too much bother to change out spindles to do a routing job, but it was very useful once. I needed to create 100 feet or so of walnut shoe molding, and was able to find a router bit of that profile but not a shaper cutter (maybe I didn't know where to look). With the power feeder run a board past the shaper, cut off the profile on the Unisaw, rinse and repeat.

Terry T.