Josh, in another shop I use those type of machines for a class I run. They’re ok but they tend to snipe often and lose their settings fairly often if you use them hard.
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Josh, in another shop I use those type of machines for a class I run. They’re ok but they tend to snipe often and lose their settings fairly often if you use them hard.
Bumbling forward into the unknown.
[OP]
Member
Thanks for all the feedback so far everyone. So if I did go with the SCM I like the idea of the $300 cheaper price and more power (8hp vs 4.8hp) of the 3 phase motor. Does anyone have recommendations for a phase converter? There seem to be a lot of different ones out there, so would appreciate any insight on the subject.
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I have two from American Rotary, they do the job but are a budget minded product. I’ve had one running for 6-7 years and the other for 2-3 years without issue.
A lot of folks like Phase perfect, if it’s within your budget I would definitely go with phase perfect.
The ratings on most Rotary phase converters are such that the motor you need on it is at least double that of what your running, but you can run multiple machines up to that same HP rating. So in your case, probably a 20HP unit would be the route to take.
The SCM 3ph unit had digital controls and electronic raise and lower, I can say from not having those items that I would absolutely love to have them. Kneeling down to raise and lower multiple times per day gets old.
Bumbling forward into the unknown.
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The recommendation is to go to SCM/Minimax if you want a combo jointer/planer. It is my opinion that they make the best solution in the industry.
If you are going separates, you can get very excellent machines with other vendors at a good price point. You don't necessarily have to go to the SCM/Felder price level. Also, a lot of machinery is being made in Taiwan now. Most of the Grizzly machines that I look into are actually made in Taiwan. The Oliver 16" jointer is made in Taiwan. Based on what I have read, people who have bought Olivers are happy with their product. It seems like a well engineered product that is usually a bit heavier duty than other vendors. Definitely better than Grizzly.
Here's a thread on someone who got the Oliver planer:
https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread....iver-machinery
Jay Bates talks about his Oliver jointer and planer here at the 18 minute mark:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwT3CjtCVC0&t=1080s
I'm not trying to push Oliver here, just giving some info on other people's experiences.
Powermatic used to be the top level traditional machines. However, in the last 4-5 years they have dropped radically in level of quality and support. I'm not saying that you'll get a bad machine, but if you do, the support you get from Powermatic may be a fight. It might be better to buy from Woodcraft and then just do a return if it arrives as a problem.
Grizzly, on the other hand, appears to have excellent support on their product, such as sending out replacement parts (if available) on anything that arrived broken or problematic.
I will say that the FS41ES is on my list as the next big purchase (hopefully within a couple years).
3-phase is generally recommended because the motors run smoother and quieter. You don't have to deal with replacing motor start/run capacitors. But the cost of implementing 3-phase can be too high for the return-on-investment. It's a personal preference. If you just want to throw in a rotary phase converter that plugs into a 60A outlet, that's a low cost solution for sure.
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My own personal experience was selling my Laguna combo machine (which really was terrible) to Felder separates. I love them. Much higher quality. I have the A941 jointer, and the D951 Planer. I love the digital electronics (Power-Drive and Digi-Drive) on the planer, though I have had a few issues with them that tech support eventually solved. In theory it's maximum thicknessing width is 510mm (20"). Snipe is non-existent with it. Maximum width is 16" with the jointer. The few times I needed more, with the planer and a wide-belt I just took a different path.
I haven't really had the need for longer tables on the jointer. And the few times I did, I just used roller supports on both ends. Easy-peesy.
And I would definitely suggest going with three-phase power. I have a Phase Perfect and after installation haven't thought about it once. It just works. And better with the digital electronics of a number of my machines. Don't know if this is in your price range, but works great for me.
- After I ask a stranger if I can pet their dog and they say yes, I like to respond, "I'll keep that in mind" and walk off
- It's above my pay grade. Mongo only pawn in game of life.
[OP]
Member
Hey Aaron thanks for all the info. Ok I'll look into that Oliver jointer some more, it does look nice. Yea I really wanted the 3 phase option, but man I didn't realize how expensive the phase converters are. It seems like that would cost me almost $2000. In that case I'll probably just have to stick with single phase, but we'll see.Originally Posted by Aaron Inami
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I had an old Hitachi combo for decades and it worked great. One of the great features was the jointer was off to the side and you could joint and plane without touching settings. When it was time to upgrade all I could find for combo units were unfold this, slide that over and plane, then fold that back and joint, messing up settings from one step to the other. I went with separate units, got the powermatic 8 parallelogram with helical head and 15" planer, wish I had done it years ago.
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If in your position I might consider keeping the Hammer for jointing and getting a stand alone planer (or vice versa as Jim suggested).
I looked hard at a 3-phase SCM but the cost of converters (rotary, phase perfect, or VFDs) were all $1-2K plus additional noise and steps. Would recommend sticking to 1-phase if you are buying new (this was also Sam B.'s recommendation).
Good luck.
"You can observe a lot just by watching."
--Yogi Berra
Moderator
Andy Rawls is using the big Oliver jointer and I believe that Cam at Blacktail Studios also bought one. Andy has spoken well of that beast in his videos and while he does make a few shekels on YouTube content, he's producing some truly beautiful work out of his shop and out of hard stuff like Pecan, too. His shop has several older Oliver tools (some with written provenance from the parts supplier he deals with) so when the opportunity to get the big blue jointer came along...it became an important part of his shop. Now that's only one guy, but it's a guy who's making the machine work for a living. Edit...I forgot Jay Bates as mentioned above.
That said, I really like the combo format...for how I work. For jointing, it's primarily only faces because after boards are flat and thicknessed, I do the edges on the slider rather than return to the jointer. So one tool's worth of space does what I need personally. I think separates are a better thing for shops that can support them, but the "big stuff" is pretty expensive. I see folks buying combos just to get a wide jointer for a decent price while still using monster thicknessers for that function. The market kinda forces that because big, dedicated "aircraft carrier" jointers bring a big price tag, often more than a really nice combo, unless you can find a usable old iron solution floating around.
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The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...
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Get your info from someone who doesnt sell something. The cost of the roto pays for itself in savings on the first used machine. Everything after that becomes a huge saving.
Last edited by Warren Lake; 02-15-2024 at 10:32 PM.
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3 phase; I bought it used at a price that made the decision to add a RPC easy. The RPC I got is from American Rotary, came with a 20 HP Baldor motor. They were very helpful in spec'ing the right product. It has worked well for about four years now. The RPC makes a really annoying hum, the only downside to this whole setup. It would really bug me if I had to leave it on all the time. If a Phase Perfect is quiet that would be a compelling argument to spend the extra $$.
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Phase Perfect makes a different type of noise. It is an electrical buzzing with a lot of different high frequency noise. It is very annoying to many people. This video shows the old generation noise compared to new generation noise on the Phase Perfect units:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RBh59Qud94
It's best if either type of phase converter is stored in a separate room. The Phase Perfect has models that can be mounted outside, but be aware of max temperature restrictions of each model.
Last edited by Aaron Inami; 02-15-2024 at 8:21 PM.
Contributor
ones ive had were not that loud. Some motors are huge older style. Makes total sense there is a noise its a metal speaker cabinet with stuff in it is attached to a motor with no of damping or insulating the metal. Lining with duc seal should make a huge difference. Even vibration feet under it all that makes sense. Ive not looked close in a while. I think there was a wood block between the motor and metal but maybe remembering wrong. Just remember at quick look there were several ways to make them quieter.
[OP]
Member
Hey Jim thanks for the info. Yea I definitely get that, which is why I bought the Hammer in the first place. It was a much better deal than the others. But at this point I'm just thinking that I want nicer stuff. If I can wait for a sale on the Oliver I'm pretty sure I can get the jointer and planer for $12k vs $14.5k for the SCM combo, which appears to be the best price I can get on it. All of a sudden for me it doesn't seem like such a great deal anymore. But who knows I'll have to wait and see what I find. I'm definitely only buying new though. I'm not a tinkerer and have no interest in messing with old tools.
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