Help me pick an Arkansas stone

[Jim Koepke]

I can see the allure of synthetic stones.

For me water stones are easier. They are also messier.

My main reason for using oilstones is on curved blades. Gouges have a tendency to gouge water stones. It's not hard to gouge a water stone with a flat blade.

Besides, my shop doesn't have running water and during the winter water in the shop freezes on the colder days.

jtk

[Rafael Herrera]

I started using waterstones. After some time, all the prep work and accessories needed to sharpen something drove me look for an alternative. As a boy I had seen my dad use a simple crystolon to sharpen his tools, so I knew it wasn't a complex process.

In the end I settled for a couple of oilstones, a medium India and a washita, and a strop for everyday sharpening. I use a diamond stones, crystolons, sandpaper or bench grinder when necessary.

I don't have the patience to use nagura stones, soaking, or water tubs, or lapping or going through several grit progressions every time I need to sharpen something.

Nothing wrong with that, I've friends that claim to find it a meditative experience.

[John C Cox]

Ok, so after half a day of testing these, I've got this conclusion:

They are different in a way that's hard to describe, but here goes: Arkansas stones are super fine polishing. The stone they claim is "Coarser" seems to cut with the same fine-ness, but it is just more scratchy in a very not-useful way. The other stone (less dense, but with a very uniform texture) has a really nice bite. It leaves a very fine polish with a lot less scratches.

I think Warren nailed it. Neither of these is really suitable for use directly after my P1000 disc. That would take about 500 years. I need something else to bridge the gap.

[Rafael Herrera]

You have to press harder to make them bite a bit more. Less pressure and they polish.

[John C Cox]

I was using lots of pressure. Compared to P1000 PSA on a surface plate, both stones are way slower... Almost like using P2000 or P3000, except without the problem of constantly clogging the paper. I'm going to try a fine india to knock down machine grinding marks after the worksharp.

I personally don't feel like the more scratchy stone will be useful for woodworking tools, though I could see it might be nice for a knife.

[Jim Koepke]

Almost like using P2000 or P3000, except without the problem of constantly clogging the paper.

My way around clogging the abrasive paper was to wrap a strong magnet in paper. Use this to pick up the swarf. When the paper gets full, open up the paper and lift the magnet out over a trash can. Keeps the paper cutting and the magnet from getting covered with metal filings.

jtk

[Rafael Herrera]

I was using lots of pressure. Compared to P1000 PSA on a surface plate, both stones are way slower... Almost like using P2000 or P3000, except without the problem of constantly clogging the paper. I'm going to try a fine india to knock down machine grinding marks after the worksharp.

I personally don't feel like the more scratchy stone will be useful for woodworking tools, though I could see it might be nice for a knife.

The soft stone should abrade the steel, you can see the black swarf as you sharpen the tool, but this is not like using sandpaper.

--

When I'm refurbishing an old edge, I sometimes use a strip of 80 grit PSA sandpaper and a guide to grind the primary bevel (sometimes I use a bench grinder and then a crystolon). After that I use some kind of medium coarseness media and then it turns into regular sharpenning: medium India (if needed), washita, strop.

I don't use a power sharpener so I don't know what is the state of the edge of your tool after the machine you're using. I would guess most power sharpeners are pretty aggressive compared to a medium India, where it is that I start most of the time.

If you're familiar with the feel of a fine India, then the washita and the soft ark will feel even finer (or harder) than the India, not by much.

I can post pictures of a chisel bevel after worked on the washita and soft ark if you want.

[Robert Hazelwood]

I was using lots of pressure. Compared to P1000 PSA on a surface plate, both stones are way slower... Almost like using P2000 or P3000, except without the problem of constantly clogging the paper. I'm going to try a fine india to knock down machine grinding marks after the worksharp.

I personally don't feel like the more scratchy stone will be useful for woodworking tools, though I could see it might be nice for a knife.

Fine India is perfect for this- sets up a soft ark very nicely

[John C Cox]

The Fine India should be here soon.

I keep hearing folks say that arkansas stone brands make a big difference.

What brand do I need to be looking at for a soft Arkansas? Norton? Dan's? Preyda? Best? Anybody else?

Same for Hard Arkansas? Norton? Dan's? Somebody else?

Thanks.

[Robert Hazelwood]

What I know about Arkansas stones is mostly from David Weaver. He would buy tons of stones and write at length about them on various forums. He also had some good youtube videos I'd point you to but he has taken all of them down it seems. Anyways, his advice from 8-10 years ago was that Dan's was best for a new hard/translucent stone (finer, more consistent), but that their soft arkansas was a little slow/fine-cutting for what he wanted a soft ark to be (medium/middle stone). He was recommending Natural Whetstone instead, since it was a little more aggressive, and cheaper.

I took his advice and got an 8x3 soft ark from NW that I really like, and a Dan's 8x2 translucent that is also great. I've never owned any other arkansas stones so I can't say much beyond that.

[Nicholas Lawrence]

Ok, so after half a day of testing these, I've got this conclusion:

They are different in a way that's hard to describe, but here goes: Arkansas stones are super fine polishing. The stone they claim is "Coarser" seems to cut with the same fine-ness, but it is just more scratchy in a very not-useful way. The other stone (less dense, but with a very uniform texture) has a really nice bite. It leaves a very fine polish with a lot less scratches.

I think Warren nailed it. Neither of these is really suitable for use directly after my P1000 disc. That would take about 500 years. I need something else to bridge the gap.

It is usually worth listening to Warren.

I have a "black" which basically just polishes in my experience, and another one that raises a bur in just a few strokes. I can't remember what they sold it is (hard maybe?). It is coarser than the black, but certainly not something I would describe as "scratchy in a very not-useful way."

Anyway, I wonder what kind of steel you are trying to sharpen. My modern stuff is O1, so maybe guys who have tried A2 or the other new steels can help shed some light on how Arkansas stones work on the new steels.

[John C Cox]

Nothing fancy steel wise. Modern Buck Bro's, blue handle Marples, and a pre-WWI Sorby firmer as a sanity check. They all do the same thing.

The fine India does a nice job on the machine marks.

I would love to find a black Ark like you describe... Something that will cut (relatively) faster and raise a burr pretty quick, rather than just polishing for eons. Any chance you remember where you got it?

[Nicholas Lawrence]

Nothing fancy steel wise. Modern Buck Bro's, blue handle Marples, and a pre-WWI Sorby firmer as a sanity check. They all do the same thing.

The fine India does a nice job on the machine marks.

I would love to find a black Ark like you describe... Something that will cut (relatively) faster and raise a burr pretty quick, rather than just polishing for eons. Any chance you remember where you got it?

The cutter is not black sort of a speckled gray. I guess the way I wrote that it sounded like they are both black.

The box the gray one is in says it is a “hard Arkansas.” I got it from Dan’s.

I also have a fine India, which I agree is a good stone.

[John C Cox]

I think the problem I'm having is that I'm full flat bevel sharpening. No micro-bevel, no hollow grind. As such, the Arkansas stones are acting like a nice, hard rock made of 3 micron particles with the main difference being how many scratchy defects are in the stone. Probably, if I was hollow grinding or micro-beveling, they would behave more like what is expected based on the porosity/density.

*Sigh*

This means I need something intermediate to bridge the gap from the fine India if I'm going to get any use out of Arks, but it also means my quest is becoming more trouble. The only thing I see on the market right now in that vicinity is water stones. Maybe a Shapton Glass 2000?

[Warren Mickley]

I have sharpened full flat bevel without grinding for over fifty years. Your main problem is buying these hard Arkansas stones without intermediaries. You can easily go from a fine India to a soft Arkansas, even a medium India to a soft Arkansas. In fact a medium India/soft Arkansas combination stone could satisfy all your needs. I don't recommend black or translucent Arkansas stones for beginners.

A Washita stone is also a good intermediate stone. Good stones for sharpening a flat bevel include India stones, silicon carbide stones (crystolon and carborundum), and water stones in the 800 to 1200 range. Save the Arkansas stones for polishing an already sharp tool.