Future infrastructure for residential electric service?

[Stephen Tashiro]

The recent thread on electric vehicles brings up questions about future infrastructure for residential electric service ( power lines, transformers, etc.) Will a future home need 500 AMP service? Can contemporary power poles safely hold the power lines and transformers that can supply that much power to whole neighborhoods?

[Edward Weber]

Short answer is yes, standard 200a service is not nearly enough for todays electrified world
JMO

[Cameron Wood]

No. 200 amp service is not generally needed and was discouraged for a time but is appropriate if natural gas is not used. Many electrical loads, especially lighting, but even heating, are less from improved efficiency.
What is needed are much larger breaker panels due to the many special circuit breakers now required.

[George Yetka]

Non-alternative power plants are what are needed. Nuclear

[Jimmy Harris]

Only about 20% of the power from the US electrical grid is used by residential homes and apartments. It's the commercial sector that commands most of the power from the grid.

The trend in modern residential usage is going downward due to everything becoming more efficient. The things that are really taxing the grid right now are old factories, data centers, crypto miners, and stuff like that. There are crypto mining centers that have dedicated power plants that only service that one data center, like in Seneca Lake NY, North Towanda NY, Kennerdell PA, Russellton PA and many, many other places.

[Stan Calow]

I read that 25% of the electricity generated in California is used to pump water and sewage.

[mike stenson]

I'd settle for simply maintaining the infrastructure we have All of it has been ignored for about 40 years.

[Pat Germain]

I read that 25% of the electricity generated in California is used to pump water and sewage.

This also includes heating water. Paradoxically, power plants make hot water to generate electricity so people can make hot water.

Almost everyone I talk to about how nuclear power works is genuinely surprised the reactor does nothing more than make hot water. Even on submarines and aircraft carriers.

[Stephen Tashiro]

Only about 20% of the power from the US electrical grid is used by residential homes and apartments. It's the commercial sector that commands most of the power from the grid.

What will happen to the nation's grid is important, but I'm wondering what happens at a local level - power lines along streets in towns. Local infrastructure demands go according to number of voters wanting the electricity, not the amount of power they use. Real estate agents and investors tend to be politically active.

The trend in modern residential usage is going downward due to everything becoming more efficient.

I agree and this may continue if policies and technology keep electric power prices from dropping. However, if future technology and public policy (like fusion, restrictions on hydrocarbons, improved solar etc.) make electric power cheaper than other sources, there will be increased residential demand for power. People will do things with electric power that they never dreamed of doing before. (Most people still don't drive electric cars. What happens if that becomes the norm?)

[Doug Garson]

This also includes heating water. Paradoxically, power plants make hot water to generate electricity so people can make hot water.

Almost everyone I talk to about how nuclear power works is genuinely surprised the reactor does nothing more than make hot water. Even on submarines and aircraft carriers.

Actually not quite true, "Nuclear power reactors use heat produced during atomic fission to boil water and produce pressurized steam. The steam is routed through the reactor steam system to spin large turbines blades that drive magnetic generators to produce electricity."
The nuclear reactor replaces the coal fired boiler in a conventional fossil fuel power plant. There are some differences but essentially the process for using the steam to drive the turbine is the same for both nuclear and fossil fuel power plants.

[Pat Germain]

Actually not quite true, "Nuclear power reactors use heat produced during atomic fission to boil water and produce pressurized steam. The steam is routed through the reactor steam system to spin large turbines blades that drive magnetic generators to produce electricity."
The nuclear reactor replaces the coal fired boiler in a conventional fossil fuel power plant. There are some differences but essentially the process for using the steam to drive the turbine is the same for both nuclear and fossil fuel power plants.

What is steam but hot water? (Nuclear-powered aircraft carrier veteran.)

Technically, the reactor water doesn't boil. Boiling is the last thing you want. It's under pressure so it doesn't boil.

The Soviets used a liquid metal reactor in one of their submarines. But even that was used to make hot water/steam.

Correction: OK, I've learned some commercial nuclear reactors boil the water in the reactor side. And yeah, the steam is made on the turbine side by boiling water.

[Jimmy Harris]

The effect electric cars will have on the power grid is negligible. First, they don't use that much power. Second, they're typically charged during off peak hours. Thirdly, everyone I know who owns an electric vehicle also has solar panels on their roof. And a lot of people who don't drive EV's are getting solar panels installed. In fact, it's gotten so bad that many places are charging customers for switching to solar, or at least preventing them from getting paid when they give back to the grid, to keep prices up while income flow from the residential sector decreases. This is also partly why electric bills have been increasing in recent years. Less people paying in means you have to charge more per kWh to those who are left to maintain the same income.

The reason we're having all of these grid problems now is because of decades of neglect. We really haven't done a good job of maintaining the grid, preferring instead to keep prices low, and now that bill is becoming due. The problem isn't because of what's happens in the future. The problem is because of what happened in the past. We passed the buck until the buck couldn't be passed any further, and now we all have to pay for it.

I wouldn't worry too much about the politics of it all. The politicians have one job, and that's to get elected. And that's hard to do, no matter how much money the big corporations and special interest groups give you, if the general public doesn't believe you're on their side.

[Edward Weber]

No. 200 amp service is not generally needed and was discouraged for a time but is appropriate if natural gas is not used. Many electrical loads, especially lighting, but even heating, are less from improved efficiency.
What is needed are much larger breaker panels due to the many special circuit breakers now required.

Yes, you're correct. I know my panel is full but not everything is used at once.
On the other hand, everything electronic is typically drawing a small current even when not in use. So the baseline number is no longer just a refrigerator running, it's Tv's, computers and everything else plugged directly into the wall. The rest a is charger for something.
So, even though things may be more efficent, the demand on the service is still high because people use more of it.

[Monte Milanuk]

What is steam but hot water? (Nuclear-powered aircraft carrier veteran.)

Technically, the reactor water doesn't boil. Boiling is the last thing you want. It's under pressure so it doesn't boil.

IIRC it kinda does. So-called nucleate boiling, in the laminar boundary region (nuke submarine guy here). Not the typical rolling boil that most people think of, but still

Correction: OK, I've learned some commercial nuclear reactors boil the water in the reactor side. And yeah, the steam is made on the turbine side by boiling water.

Yeah, did a brief stint at a BWR plant after I got out. The whole steam system was considered 'hot'. That, and hydrogen cooling for an 800 MW generator....

Having been 'raised' in the Navy's PWR world, that just creeped me out

[Jim Koepke]

I'd settle for simply maintaining the infrastructure we have All of it has been ignored for about 40 years.

The reason we're having all of these grid problems now is because of decades of neglect.

It was about 40 years ago two words, "deferred maintenance" became popular. This took a few years to catch on in the world of utilities.

From my experience in working for a public utility in California a few things were learned. One of them was how the Public Utilities Commission (PUC) adjusted rates. The simple explanation was a utility was able to charge a set percentage above operating costs. This included maintenance.

When electric utility deregulation came to California almost 30 years ago a lot of the maintenance became a drain on the balance sheets. Guess what got cut from the budget to improve profits.

jtk