What is Founder's Grade?

[Jim Koepke]

One ebay sellers lists some items as 'Founder's Grade.'

Does this have an actual meaning or is it seller hype?

jtk

[Tony Zaffuto]

One ebay sellers lists some items as 'Founder's Grade.'

Does this have an actual meaning or is it seller hype?

jtk

I believe it is Martin Donnelly's (tool auctioneer) invented term. I would call it hype, though Martin knows tools and is a stand-up guy (personal experience) to deal with.

[Jim Koepke]

Martin knows tools and is a stand-up guy (personal experience) to deal with.

My experience with Martin Donnely was only one item. No reply to my email expressing my dissatisfaction with the condition compared to their discription. It will likely be my only purchase ever from them.

jtk

[Tony Zaffuto]

My experience with Martin Donnely was only one item. No reply to my email expressing my dissatisfaction with the condition compared to their discription. It will likely be my only purchase ever from them.

jtk

I had bought an A5 (Stanley aluminum #5) for my collection, from an auction of his. Pictures and description did not show a hang hole, and I complained. My money and all auction costs, including shipping, was refunded. This was one of his regular actions, not Ebay.

[Jim Matthews]

If you have an item with the imprimatur of "Founder's grade" it has the same added value of an item that was "Hand selected".

BFD

[Jim Koepke]

If you have an item with the imprimatur of "Founder's grade" it has the same added value of an item that was "Hand selected".

BFD

Of course, that depends on the 'hand' doing the selecting.

jtk

[Tony Zaffuto]

Of course, that depends on the 'hand' doing the selecting.

jtk

Auctioneers never gin up bidders, do they?

[Jim Matthews]

Auctioneers never gin up bidders, do they?

"Captain Renault: I’m shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here! "

[Mike Mason]

I believe that it is totally marketing hype - if you google the phrase, nothing comes up but Martin's auctions. Not even sure what it's supposed to infer...

As for Martin, I have seen him in action - yes, he knows his tools, but I have found him to be pushy, aggressive, and unlikeable. I watched him in action many years ago at a number of MWTCA meets, and he would race from table to table, push his way in front of people, make a fast offer to an unsuspecting seller, and give him 5-10 seconds to decide before moving on. If someone was unpacking their wares, he would step right in front and start unloading the box himself. I saw him buy a Stanley 55 from an older gentleman, take it to his own table, and his assistant immediately put a price tag on it for almost three times what Martin paid. The seller was disheartened and I'm sure Martin could have put it away to sell in his catalog (this was before eBay) or auction. This is just one example, but I remember it well. He may know his tools, but more than anything, he's a person I would never deal with.

[Eric Brown]

I believe he uses the word "Founder" to imply it is in very good collector condition. Nothing more. I have and still do buy from him off e-bay where I'm looking for a particular item to complete a tool. Sometimes he has reprinted catalogs that interest me. Nothing from him is a great deal. If you go to sell it, because of taxes and possibly listing fees, you will need to hold onto it for a number of years and hope the value is still there. For me, what I buy will add value to the tool I'm working on. So, I hope to do all right. I have no exposure directly with the man.

[Jim Koepke]

He may know his tools, but more than anything, he's a person I would never deal with.

As stated above, my one experience dealing with him is more than enough for one lifetime.

jtk

[Tony Zaffuto]

I was raised to always look for good in others. In Martin's case, I will say, that about a decade ago, I needed an A6 (aluminum #6) for my collection of Stanley aluminum planes. He had one, in an auction, described as excellent. I bid and won. When it arrived, it had a hang hole not shown on the auction pictures. I complained and got a refund, though I do not recall if shipping was reimbursed.

I appreciated the refund, but I did not appreciate poor pictures. He does show up at tool sales, such as PATINA, MWTC and similar.

For those looking for honest dealing, you can't beat Josh Clark/Hyperkitten or Patrick Leach/Supertool.

[Jimmy Harris]

Founder's grade /ˈfoundərs ɡrād/
adjective

1. a description of a cast metal object of unknown quality
2. an embellishment disguised as a hopeful request for excessive profitability upon sale
3. a ruse to part the fool and his money

[Stew Denton]

Jim, I have watched his auction for many years, often looking for parts for planes I am restoring. His term "Founders Grade" is one he has only used in the last few years, not one he used historically, to my memory.

I have thought that meant the plane or part or whatever, was as he "found" it, but of course that is only speculation on my part. However, in looking at a number of his "Buy It Now" items, it does appear that those so listed are generally, but not always, nicer than some of the other of his listing. However, this does not always seem to be the case.

His prices are a lot too high IMHO, and so I very seldom buy from him. However, at times he is the only source at times. On those times, when I needed the part and did not want to wait and hope for a better price from another seller, I did buy from him, and in those cases he has given excellent service, packing, etc.

Regards,

Stew

[Rafael Herrera]

I once asked him what it meant. He came up with the term. Since he's the only one who uses it, it doesn't mean anything in the wider vintage tool market. "mint", NOS, and good pictures are better qualifiers.

His ebay prices are usually high. One has to really want a part to be willing to buy from him.

I decided not to buy from him after some stupid comments he made during the pandemic.