Laguna 3HP p|flux

[Mike Konobeck]

Santa came early delivering gifts via a freight truck. There isn't a lot of information out there yet on this dust collector so I thought I would open a thread and provide some information for that that are thinking about this vac or have one on the way. Here are a few of my thoughts for the setup and initial use.

Setup

Let's start by saying that I have never been impressed with instructions that come with anything made overseas. It would seem that they hire 5 year olds to write their instructions and then a 6 year olds to proof read them. There were some significant gaps in the instructions. Here are some tips and inaccuracies in the instructions. Take them for what they are worth and do so at your own risk. I did the whole thing by myself this way but of course venturing away from the instructions requires some bouncing around which isn't a big deal given how poorly they were written.

1. Be prepared to spending some quality time with getting it assembled. Online, the manual says 1-2 hours. HAHAHA!!! The print copy that came with my machine said 5-6 hours. It takes ALL of that.
2. Getting it unpacked and off the pallet is the first magic trick. Laguna packed it well. I will give them that but I always cringe at the waste from some things like this. First tip is go to Northern Tool and buy a hydraulic lift table that goes up about 4ft or better. I have this one: http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...1992_200631992 It made assembly a lot easier and I never had to flip it over. The opening on the motor side fits the cart under it perfectly. The vac can be slid off of the pallet and onto the cart and then can be lifted right up and moved around. The lift is great for a lot of other things around the shop and garage. I use it as a table for the outfeed side of my J/P and to stack stuff on as I make cuts on the saw. I still have to make a little table for it for assembly. 2016-12-16_17-51-18_813 copy.jpg
3. I used the blue loctite (removable) on everything. Can't hurt. Not necessary but with the exception of 4 bolts holding the cylinder up into the intake there are no lock washers used.
4. Don't unbolt the base like they poorly describe in "Step 1". Leave it on and move the vac to where you want to do most of the assembly. After you have it in place then lower the unit on something that gets it off the floor about 4-6". I just used the pallet. It was just enough. The reason you do this is so that you can lower the unit onto the pallet and assemble the first part of the cyclone unit so that you can slide the lifting table back under and lift it up high enough to slide the "base" under it and get everything so it can stand on its own. The part of the cyclone you add is the intake portion. You can change the orientation of the intake. Just turn it how you want. I have it so it is against a wall so I turned the intake to point out at about a 45 deg angle from the wall. I can still see the windows clearly.2016-12-17_12-37-33_991.jpeg
5. Now you can take the part off that you will install the casters onto. SAVE the 6 14mm bolts. I forgot about those and was frantically looking for them in the bags.
6. You won't be able to assemble the cyclone like they say in "Step 5". As I noted you will have already put the intake section on so that you can get the lift table back under it to lift the whole unit up high enough to slip the base under.
7. Assemble the base Once assembled lower the top part onto the base and get it standing on its own.
8. Once you have that done then pull the table out when you look up into the intake you will see there are 4 holes. There is a cylinder shaped part that you have to put up in there that has a flange. Make sure you use the 4 bolts in a separate bag that have a lock washer preinstalled.
9. Now use the lift table to raise the cyclone/funnel up to the mating flange. Align the vertical weld and the windows.
10. Assemble the rest by flipping around in the manual. Most of the other steps are self contained.
11. When you get the drum all assembled you have to put the part on the back that creates the vacuum to hold the bag down. Nowhere in my manual does it explain the assembly and alignment of this to the part on the back of the drum lid. I had to use the plates you would use to block off the holes if you didn't want to use a bag to shim the top part out far enough to align. I have to call customer service about that.
12. The control box that is hanging down is supposed to be mounted to on of the reinforcing brackets. Hard to explain but someone didn't make the cable long enough to do so. Not a huge deal but poor QC. All they had to do was make both cables the same longer length and it would have been fine. Some moron decided during assembly it was ok to make one shorter than the other for no good reason other than maybe they ran short on cable.

Function

• It pulls a lot of air. I have no scientific way to measure how much air but it does well with drawing all of the dust off of and out of any dust collecting tools I have. Only been using it since Sat evening (writing this Sun night) so have not had time to put it through its paces. Will report back to this thread if something changes but no reason to believe it won't function well. It is not magic. It has a 3HP motor so any unit with an equivalent motor is going to be similar.
• Noise is a problem for me. Online it says 76db @ 9.8ft. I was getting a very unscientific reading of 90db @ about 10ft on my iPhone using the Measures2 app. I measured my J/P. It is a 12" Felder that has 4 blades. Not cutting wood @ about 90db too. The dust collector is VERY loud. Louder than I expected and therefore another point I will be contacting Laguna about.
• Fit and finish are good. For the most part everything is as you see in the pictures and it looks great in the shop. Unfortunately my wife came out to ask me something and started to inquire about it and asked me the question we all cringe to answer. That is, "How much was it?!". I had to laugh at a quote I saw over on the FOG about a guys worst nightmare is his wife selling his tools for what he said he spent on them after he dies. I was honest. That may or may not have been a mistake. Her next question to me was, "All it does is suck up dust, right?!", just before she stormed out of the shop. I will need to make sure she doesn't see the Festool vac box that is coming on Tues. We are building the kitchen cabinets so am treating myself to some upgraded tools.

I will try to answer any questions people have if there are any or if someone else has purchased and assembled with different tips then please share. Curious if others had a similar experience with the instructions and function.

[Brian Glendenning]

What pushed you to the pflux rather than cflux? The noise reduction? (I've been thinking of a cflux, but if the pflux is that noisy I hate to think about the cflux number...).

[Victor Robinson]

Thank you for this review. This is the model I have been waiting to hear more about. The supposed noise level was a big reason I was interested - it is disappointing to hear it does not seem much, if any, quieter than other models.

[Mike Konobeck]

The main reason I got the p|flux was the sound reduction. The couple bells and whistles that come on the p|flux also make it more cost effective to just buy up front versus having to add on later.

So I just got a response back from Laguna and they said that they tested it in a "sound proof room" and that variation is to be expected. The gentleman I was talking to in support was nice enough but he ended the conversation with "what would I like him to do?". He said that the person/people that designed it are in the office I called in CA. I may end up just building a box around it using Roxul insulation and calling it good but not sure that a 76db to 90db discrepancy is acceptable. I am using it in a three car garage/shop that I designed to be as sound proof as possible as to not disturb the neighbors. I still have to go outside the garage and check the db reading I am getting but the below 0 temps here this weekend prevented me from wanting to do that.

All in all it is a 3HP DC with the motor and cyclone completely exposed so it is not going to magically be quiet so I am trying to be realistic. I guess I just expected it to be quieter than the average 3HP DC without the sound proofing. I have heard a few larger DCs and this is definitely not any quieter than those. You have to yell over it while it is running in the shop and at 90db definitely need hearing protection on at all times it is running.

Will report back more if things change. Will do another test after checking to make sure that I am not getting any abnormal vibrations out of it tonight. Laguna support was prompt to answer and respond so we will see what they do or don't do. I have no problem posting positive and negative responses here to keep everybody updated. I would be curious of others that have bought this have had a similar experience or could simply check their db levels using their phones and post.

[Andy Giddings]

Have been looking at the ClearVue and Oneida V systems so your review of the Laguna is useful to me as well. In summary it seems to be about the same performance as the ClearVue/Oneida in terms of claimed airflow, but slightly more expensive at $2200 and louder (at least than the V system)

[Mike Konobeck]

I have a inquiry out to Paul from Toolmetrix to see what he thinks as he was going to get the p|flux. He was selling/sold his ClearVue to get the Laguna. He did the only good review I could find on the c|flux and p|flux. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwmzEXeiJp4 This was for the 1.5HP models and he was reading about 80db so it isn't out of the realm of possibilities that the 3HP motor will generate that much more noise. Regardless of the manufacturer. What I will say is the Laguna model comes with the dust bin and air flow sensors. These are not cheap options on the Oneida. The drum/dust bin works pretty slick. The hepa filter on the p|flux is very nice too. Of course I have no scientific way to prove efficiency of dust collection but I don't put a lot of really fine dust through my DC. That is why I hook up smaller tools to a small dc and have a hepa filter on them.

[Brian Glendenning]

dB is logarithmic, so naively I would expect a twice as powerful dust collector to be +3dB noisier, although obviously the coupling between the motor power and the acoustic output is going to be complicated in the real world.

[Andy Giddings]

From reading the ClearVue forum and looking at where Oneida puts their muffler on the V System, looks like the major noise reduction point for these cyclone designs is the exhaust into the filter. Not sure how easy it would be just to add a silencer to the Laguna as it looks from Mike's photo they've shrouded that part of the design already

[Mike Konobeck]

Ok. So I just talked to Paul from the Toolmetrix video on YouTube. Great guy! He has a lot of good information and has been using the Laguna for a few months. He was registering 87db or so. Not too terribly far off from my reading. Lots of variables go into that reading so I wouldn't put a lot of stock into my number except for a point of reference. Just know that if you buy the Laguna not to expect 76db as advertised.

Most importantly is performance of the DC. I would say that after conversations with Paul that I made the right choice from a performance perspective. Not going to quote him or misstate the results of his tests but it sounds like the Laguna is an air moving champ. With the dust bin sensor, air flow sensor, drum design, and the filtration it is hard to argue with the value. After some more significant testing I will provide some updates. Going to be running a lot of material through the J/P over the next few weeks so that will be a true test. I don't want people shying away from the Laguna based on my initial impressions. I also don't want people to make the same mistake I did if expecting a super quiet DC.

[Mike Konobeck]

I will have to say this about Laguna's customer service. It is pretty top notch. I spoke with Adam @ Laguna and he was very prompt and polite. Even reached out to me though I didn't get back to him very timely. Everything you expect out of customer service. I believe they would have done whatever it takes to make it right. I think that it is still misleading to put unrealistic sound ratings in the specs but my guess is that all of the manufacturers do the same thing so not sure if that is Laguna's fault but maybe the industry.

In regards to performance, I have been using it all day on everything. Jointer, planer, table saw, router (w/ Incra downdraft box), etc and all is working great. Would still recommend the dust collector if you are in the market.

[Victor Robinson]

Thanks for the updates Mike. Since noise is such a big issue for you (and me), I'm looking forward to seeing how you mitigate this collector's loudness.

[James Gunning]

Based on my doing the sound mixing for my church and also knowing how much noise my 1HP blower can make, I was disappointed that Laguna had low-balled the sound ratings. I just don't see any way they could honestly rate a 3HP blower at 76db. They had to do something to fudge the numbers. I would have expected at least 90db or more. The use of the decibel reading apps on phones, I-pads and such is not likely to be that accurate. Compared to a professional dB meter, they tend to be OK in the middle range but when it's quiet or very loud they are often significantly off.

Truth is there just isn't any good way to mitigate the sound without moving it out of the area or enclosing it.

[mark mcfarlane]

Testing the loudness of a device in an anechoic chamber is a fairly standard practice. I suspect that is what the Laguna rep meant when he said 'sound proof room'. The test room eliminates reflected energy, which would make measurements from different vendors incomparable if they all tested in a different kind of room.

I don't see any trickery here, but a full disclaimer should describe the test conditions and indicate that mounting the DC along a wall will increase the sound output due to energy being reflected from the wall, and mounting in a corner near the ceiling will be even worse, due to energy being reflected off of two walls and he ceiling (Want your home theatre subwoofer louder? Put it in the corner).

The increase from 76 to 90db is about what I would expect if you mounted the DC in the corner of a shop with hard, acoustically reflective walls. Assuming you are mounted on a wall or corner, putting 4" of rockwool between the DC blower and your walls and ceiling should get you down around the mid 80s. A full closet would be better, but a little absorption between the DC and the walls and ceiling should produce a measurable decrease in SPL with little effort or cost.

[John Sanford]

I'm wondering if wrapping the cyclone itself in some sound absorbing/deadening material would help. I too am seriously considering one of the new Laguna Flux collectors. For me, the "upgrade" from the CFlux 1 to the PFlux 1 makes sense for the HEPA filter and moah quieter-ness. If it ISN'T meaningfully quieter, then it's just the HEPA. $500 for a HEPA filter is pretty stiff.

[James Gunning]

John,

Before you invest a bunch of money in a "HEPA" rated filter, I strongly suggest you call Wynn Environmental and talk to Dick Wynn. As I recall our conversation about HEPA ratings, it was not possible to meet the true HEPA standard using the cleanable filters we commonly use. As I recall, the filter would need to be replaced instead of cleaned. It's been over a year, so I may not have the exact details correct, but HEPA for the average woodworker is not possible at a reasonable cost.