"Knife wall"

[Mark Maleski]

Like Vincent Tai, I didn’t have any idea what a “knife wall” was when I clicked on this link. I admit part of my curiosity was that George Wall had last commented on the knife wall (ha!). Now I’ve ruined that by posting (follow me up, George!). All I really have to add to this discussion is that now I understand the term I’m going to stick with the terms I’ve always used: “strike a line” and “knife mark.”

[Pat Barry]

Why not give the guy credit for the term "knife wall"? Why care about something so trivial.

[Richard Jones]

My take, for what it's worth: I don't think Mr Sellers said he invented the technique, but I do think it was implied, maybe by omission.......

Me, I like different techniques by different people. Andy Rae, Tage Frid, Chris Gochnour, Mike Pekovich, Paul Sellers, etc. I do not blindly follow each and every thing they do or say. Make up my own mind, I do. Each one has something I like and don't like, and that's OK. But the 'his way or the highway' crap is silly. That pretty much negates any innovation, doesn't it, say, for something like diamond stones? Did his mentors have diamond stones? Why did he switch to them? Because they're better?

A really good teacher doesn't limit you by saying that this is the only way to accomplish something; they show you a method and then tell you that this is one way to do it, maybe you can find a better way. I don't see that in Mr. Sellers' 'teaching', and that's a shame.

BTW, I've 'coined' a lot of terms in my life as well, most of which are not appropriate for this forum!

[Jim Koepke]

Why not give the guy credit for the term "knife wall"? Why care about something so trivial.

Actually, it seems like he is taking credit for removing the space or hyphen and squishing it into one word. Buy the man a round.

jtk

[Richard Jones]

Why not give the guy credit for the term "knife wall"? Why care about something so trivial.

In my mind, I had already done just that. I didn't need him to tell me.

'Why care about something so trivial?" Exactly.

[steven c newman]

need to post here, to get back to the current file in my computer....
knife a lie.JPG
Except I just call it "Knife a line".....

[Matt Evans]

My first question to myself when stumbling upon a new trick for the first time is, how many other woodworkers have done the same thing in the past?

jtk

Yep. And my first assumption is nearly always that I am merely the last in a very long string of people to arrive at the same conclusion/jig/technique/etc.

Dovetails have been around for 4000 years or so, so I'd imagine there isn't much new to discover making them.

[Frederick Skelly]

https://paulsellers.com/2017/12/whats-knifewall/

Put down the knives boys, note the date.

Good article Jim. Thanks.

Guys, Im not a Sellars follower. But I guess I don't see how claiming he invented a new buzzword for an ancient technique is narcissistic or negative. Here's part of what Sellers said in that article. Do you see something that I dont?

"It’s not that I invented its work, more that I defined the result of using it. [The term] Knifewall didn’t exist when I thought it up, started using it and then penned it, ......... So there I was, looking at my knifewall and standing in front of 20 students when, right out of the blue, I just said it. ‘KNIFEWALL!’ I said it again and then again, to solidify it, you know, and, well, it just fit. I’d said the word knifewall for the very first time and it meant exactly what it said. It was made with a knife and the knife made the wall you see. So I coined it, the word ‘knifewall‘, in the absence of an accurate term, to take its rightful place in the vernacular of woodworkers."

Fred

[Art Mann]

Mr. Sellers seems to think he has done something important or significant by making up a name for a technique used for centuries. I beg to differ.

[michael langman]

Makes me wonder how narcissistic the fellow was that came up with the word Woodworking!

[James Pallas]

This is really deep in the weeds. The practice is older than my working career, some 60 years now. I have to admit that I never heard it called a knife wall until I saw some of Seller's videos. I was just taught, knife a line or use the edge of a chisel to do so. Chisel up to it and use it as a guide for your hand saw or don't chisel it and use it to line up your power saw blade and prevent chipping of your good edge. If you use the chisel edge you have one less tool to keep track of and you have a flat side to run against your square or rule. It's like the tape thing too. I never used it for dovetails until I saw Derek's description of it. I did use masking tape, the old white kind, to mark many hinge butts for house doors that had finish on them so you wouldn't scratch the finish and other similar cases.
Jim

[Simon MacGowen]

This is really deep in the weeds. The practice is older than my working career, some 60 years now. I have to admit that I never heard it called a knife wall until I saw some of Seller's videos. I was just taught, knife a line or use the edge of a chisel to do so.
Jim

I pointed out that Hayward and others have covered the knife wall in their writings before Sellers, but I do believe that it is Sellers who has made thousands and more through his DVDs/videos aware for the first time of its power in getting clean results. Not only that, he was also able to, where others have failed including Hayward, demonstrate by step by step how a knife wall was knifed and chiselled. Using a knife then a chisel is slower, but easier to learn and do (some other people use just a knife; Frid a chisel only).

It is one thing telling you "chisel a sloping groove" in a passing mention (which by the way could mean anything, including a perfectly shaped V-groove, to someone starting to learn to use hand tools), and another showing you with clarity, as Sellers does, how to cut one.

Can anyone find evidence that someone else has done that with such clear instructions before Sellers? Alan Peters? Roy Underhill? Rob Cosman? James Krenov? Tage Frid? So I see Sellers' contribution here not in invention, but in making the knife wall popular. The knife wall concept and technique might have existed for a long long time, but how many modern day hobbyist woodworkers had been using it before Sellers popularized it? Almost none in the group of hand tool pals I have hung around with.

Simon

[Tony Zaffuto]

I pointed out that Hayward and others have covered the knife wall in their writings before Sellers, but I do believe that it is Sellers who has made thousands and more through his DVDs/videos aware for the first time of its power in getting clean results. Not only that, he was also able to, where others have failed including Hayward, demonstrate by step by step how a knife wall was knifed and chiselled. Using a knife then a chisel is slower, but easier to learn and do (some other people use just a knife; Frid a chisel only).

It is one thing telling you "chisel a sloping groove" in a passing mention (which by the way could mean anything, including a perfectly shaped V-groove, to someone starting to learn to use hand tools), and another showing you with clarity, as Sellers does, how to cut one.

Can anyone find evidence that someone else has done that with such clear instructions before Sellers? Alan Peters? Roy Underhill? Rob Cosman? James Krenov? Tage Frid? So I see Sellers' contribution here not in invention, but in making the knife wall popular. The knife wall concept and technique might have existed for a long long time, but how many modern day hobbyist woodworkers had been using it before Sellers popularized it? Almost none in the group of hand tool pals I have hung around with.

Simon

I believe I saw it much, much earlier than by Sellers, maybe Underhill or Frank Klaus. Whoever ir was, they struck a knife line, and then used a chisel to pare wood out, leaving the shoulder to guide a saw. Whoever it was is not that big of a deal, except to show a very useful technique.

In my earlier post, I did say Sellers said he was "unlocking" secrets of "old masters", and that he did. The main thing that puzzled me, was his convex bevel on his chisel sharpening.

[Simon MacGowen]

The main thing that puzzled me, was his convex bevel on his chisel sharpening.

His method did help a lot of people start freehand sharpening, because it is easy to copy for many people. If people can put a concave (hollow ground), why not a convex, right? I prefer a flat bevel since it has worked all these years for me.

But one taking from Sellers' sharpening method is that sharpening is something many obssesed people like to make it more complicated than it should be.

Simon

[Mike Henderson]

But one taking from Sellers' sharpening method is that sharpening is something many obsessed people like to make it more complicated than it should be.

Simon

That is really the truth. It took me a while to learn that truth - many jigs and sharpening supplies - but eventually you learn that it's pretty simple.

I now use a WorkSharp with a diamond plate to establish the primary bevel and Shapton stones to put a secondary bevel on my tools. I hand hold the tool on the stones. Quick, easy and gives an excellent edge.

Mike